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#31 goodbytes

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 12:44

You sound just like this apple fan boy I work with. He thinks apple can do no wrong. Seriously dude get a clue, those parts aren't any more high quality than any other OEM. They all use the same freaking chipsets and parts. There is nothing of higher quality. All apple products are just over priced stuff that's just made with Chinese slave labor. And before you say apple is moving its manufacturing back to the USA, they are only doing that because its getting to be cheaper to build some of it here than over seas. Also more people are looking at the whole made in the USA tag thing because outsourcing is giving away American jobs.

 

Couldn't be more wrong.. it's not just about the components, there is more to apples pricing than components.. they have a premium keyboard, mouse, solid aluminium, unique designs, beautiful glass displays and so on, it's all comes at a premium, if non of that stuff does anything for you then yeah you'll think it's over priced but for people than do it's well worth the money for a nice solid quality machine.

 

Why do you think there is no direct competitor to the iMac?




#32 ManMountain

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 12:54

To me, the aesthetics look is a minimal consideration for a personal computer purchase, it's what's going on beneath the chassis that matters as far as I'm concerned. To each their own I suppose.

#33 Gotenks98

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 12:59

Couldn't be more wrong.. it's not just about the components, there is more to apples pricing than components.. they have a premium keyboard, mouse, solid aluminium, unique designs, beautiful glass displays and so on, it's all comes at a premium, if non of that stuff does anything for you then yeah you'll think it's over priced but for people than do it's well worth the money for a nice solid quality machine.

 

Why do you think there is no direct competitor to the iMac?

Competitor? You make it seem like they have a realistic market share. There are more Windows 8 users than the entire Mac user base combined with all their OSes. Don't get me wrong I own 2 Macs, I primarily got  them due to work because we support Mac users. Outside of that I would have never bothered with it.



#34 ctebah

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 13:04

Competitor? You make it seem like they have a realistic market share. There are more Windows 8 users than the entire Mac user base combined with all their OSes. Don't get me wrong I own 2 Macs, I primarily got  them due to work because we support Mac users. Outside of that I would have never bothered with it.

 

You didn't get it.  It's not about market share, it's direct competitor in the price range.  There really is no direct competitor to the iMac.



#35 Gotenks98

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 13:11

You didn't get it.  It's not about market share, it's direct competitor in the price range.  There really is no direct competitor to the iMac.

It is about market share. Why are people paying for something that cost up to 4 times what it should cost? Its a status symbol that's all its ever been about for Macs. Back in the day you could have made the argument about how Macs were better at photo editing and movies and such but Windows has come along with a long way in terms of comparable software that can do the same thing from 3rd party applications.



#36 ctebah

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 13:15

It is about market share. Why are people paying for something that cost up to 4 times what it should cost? Its a status symbol that's all its ever been about for Macs. Back in the day you could have made the argument about how Macs were better at photo editing and movies and such but Windows has come along with a long way in terms of comparable software that can do the same thing from 3rd party applications.

 

Actually it's about facts.  And facts state that Apple computers last longer than their windows counterparts, they have much less chance of getting viruses and are built to a higher standar.  These are all facts, not just opinions.  Apple is known for their rigorious standards and just like the iPhone, iMacs are built to such high standards.  Customer satisfaction is a major factor as well.  Some people buy Apple products because of what they represent but the majority of them buy it because of their value. 

 

Sure, they cost more than windows machines, but they have added value to it.



#37 Max Norris

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 13:21

To me, the aesthetics look is a minimal consideration for a personal computer purchase, it's what's going on beneath the chassis that matters as far as I'm concerned. To each their own I suppose.

I'm of the same mind.. subjective of course, I personally prefer performance first, never mind the ability to upgrade parts as I see fit versus buying an entirely new system every time.. "is it pretty" is wayyyy low on the list of considerations. Opinion of course. I get some people preferring looks first, but that's not for me.
 

Actually it's about facts. And facts state that Apple computers last longer than their windows counterparts, they have much less chance of getting viruses and are built to a higher standar.

Also pretty subjective, I've seen non-Apple hardware working for well over a decade and built like tanks, that's a fact too.. kind of silly to assume that only Apple can make parts that last. Sure, there's some cheap crappy components out there, but there's also a lot that aren't. Not sure how the Apple hardware has anything to do with malware though.

#38 ctebah

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 13:25

Also pretty subjective, I've seen non-Apple hardware working for well over a decade and built like tanks, that's a fact too.. kind of silly to assume that only Apple can make parts that last. Sure, there's some cheap crappy components out there, but there's also a lot that aren't. Not sure how the Apple hardware has anything to do with malware though.

 

Well of course, a lot of PC manufacturers make high quality products.  My lenovo from 2011 is still working like on day 1.  Apple doesn't make parts, they only engineer a way to put them all together.  However, their high quality standards are known throughout the world and the awards they have won over the years have proved that.  The reason I mentioned malware is bc only Apple hardware runs OSX.



#39 vcfan

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 13:25

He will blindly state some points. When asked to show source for his points, he won't reply.

i dont remember that ever happening,unless god forbid i missed one of your replies.

 

 

You're joking right? They are not even the same class graphics. IGP with DDR3 and mobile with dedicated GDDR5.

so what if its an "IGP". do you know whats under the hood? yes the ram bandwidth is 25GB/S intel vs 50GB/S for the amd, but the iris pro has 128MB EDRAM Cache,which is huge and brings the bandwidth to parity.

 

the 6750m has 480 shaders vs 320 on the intel, but the intel is running at more than twice the clock speed (600mhz vs 1300mhz). so normalized to the same clock (600mhz), we're talking 480 amd vs ~700 intel.

 

 

Aja??? the 6750M was rated one of the best discrete cards solutions, Hell, I was able to play crysis 3 on medium with it, I want to see an "Iris Pro" intel beat that.

 

i never said the 6750m was bad at all. its a very good graphics chip,but people are blindly dismissing the intel chip, maybe because they dont know about it and assume just because its integrated,it must suck.

 

the 6750m get around 1150 on 3D Mark 11

intel HD4000 gets around 800 on 3d Mark 11

 

intel claims the iris pro gets 2x the benchmark of hd4000 on 3d Mark 11, so we can calculate 800x2 = 1600.  1600>1150.

 



#40 xWhiplash

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 13:29

You guys also need to consider support as well, which is included in a Dell, Apple, ... computer.  If you build a computer yourself, and something happens, who do you get support from?  Yourself.  Sometimes that can be difficult trying to diagnose hardware issues.  You might replace a part and find out that was not the actual cost.  Not many people can do the support themselves.

 

Also, what about the full license of OS X?  That $20 license is just an upgrade edition.  

 

Also, what about iLife included in the computer price?



#41 Max Norris

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 13:32

Apple doesn't make parts, they only engineer a way to put them all together.  However, their high quality standards are known throughout the world and the awards they have won over the years have proved that.

Fair enough, I'm not denying they don't put out quality hardware, that's a given their out of the box experience is very good. I'm just saying they're not the only game in town either, never mind not everybody obsesses about the look. For the setups I personally use, with all the cooling and such required never mind picking the parts at the component level, big and ugly is kind of a guarantee. I personally don't buy pre-built desktop/server systems at all.. last one was in the mid-90's.. I like having control of what's under the hood never mind "future-proofing" things.
 

The reason I mentioned malware is bc only Apple hardware runs OSX.

Wellllllllll officially true, sure. I won't tell my VM or Hackintosh if you don't though. It's still not due to the hardware though, that's due to the OS, marketshare, etc.

#42 xWhiplash

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 13:34

And for the "premium parts" argument, a $299 Dell that has 4 GB of memory is not using the best memory out there.  This is what people mean by quality components.  If you did a Newegg search, is every stick of 2GB memory the same price?  No.  Some are better quality than others.

 

Is every 500W power supply the same quality and the same price?  No, some companies you avoid, and some companies are known to produce quality PSUs.  

 

THIS is what people mean by premium parts.  They do not slap the cheapest PSU, RAM, ... out there, they go for higher quality ones.



#43 ctebah

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 13:35

Fair enough, I'm not denying they don't put out quality hardware, that's a given their out of the box experience is very good. I'm just saying they're not the only game in town either, never mind not everybody obsesses about the look. For the setups I personally use, with all the cooling and such required never mind picking the parts at the component level, big and ugly is kind of a guarantee. (I personally don't buy pre-built desktop/server systems at all.. last one was in the mid-90's.)
 

 

Exactly.  The only pre built PC I have ever bought was my first one.  After that I built all of them, and it's WAAAY more fun choosing your own components.  I can agree about Apple and the high quality of their products, but I only own an iPhone, and an older iPod.  Their notebooks and iMacs are a bit out of my price range for what I do.  Checking facebook, going on Neowin and some excel can easily be done on a Lenovo netbook.



#44 Arceles

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 14:22

i never said the 6750m was bad at all. its a very good graphics chip,but people are blindly dismissing the intel chip, maybe because they dont know about it and assume just because its integrated,it must suck.

 

the 6750m get around 1150 on 3D Mark 11

intel HD4000 gets around 800 on 3d Mark 11

 

intel claims the iris pro gets 2x the benchmark of hd4000 on 3d Mark 11, so we can calculate 800x2 = 1600.  1600>1150.

http://www.notebookc...00.90965.0.html

 

Intel may claim many things indeed and this time seems that it has very good power, still if over-clocked, the 6750m beats the iris pro, although by little margin. I think intel added that 128mb EDRAM onto the chip and it shows. nonetheless the 6750m is now a very old chip, but it did wonderful like... 2 years and a half ago? Iris Pro is very recent, so they are playing catching up indeed.



#45 vcfan

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 14:30

Intel may claim many things indeed and this time seems that it has very good power, still if over-clocked, the 6750m beats the iris pro, although by little margin. I think intel added that 128mb EDRAM onto the chip and it shows. nonetheless the 6750m is now a very old chip, but it did wonderful like... 2 years and a half ago? Iris Pro is very recent, so they are playing catching up indeed.

not disagreeing with you, i just wanted to make a point that the intel chip shouldnt just be dismissed as crap just because it is integrated.