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How on earth do these people get jobs?

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#1 sathenzar

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 03:44

So I gotta rant here for a second. This is something that has been bothering me for a bit. So, by no means am I the best programmer around. I know quite a bit of programming though and have been programming for about 13 years in web programming as well as in that time I moved to desktop software programming and mobile programming (really love C# at the moment). What blows my mind though is I constantly see people get interviewed and people that even have jobs that have no concept of how to do anything but because they have a degree they have that job or get seriously considered when they are absolutly clueless. How can you be a web programmer / graduate from school with a degree and not know anything outside of HTML? I constantly hear "Oh yeah I can make professional web sites" but when I ask them what languages they use for back end programming they just stare blankly at me (have no idea what ASP.NET is or PHP or any of those). They just use Dreamweaver. How the hell does using Dreamweaver make you a professional? It doesn't! How can you have a computer science degree of 2 years but not know where memory goes on a motherboard if it's shown as a diagram? How can you have a degree in software eng. if you don't know anything outside of basic assembly and how to write C++ hello world programs. It just blows my mind. What do these people do for these companies that make money? How can they do anything useful? I had to interview someone the other day for a tech position (to repair computers not to program anything) and they had no clue what anything was on a motherboard except the cpu, they thought the video card went where the memory went, they thought the memory went where the video card went, and they thought the hard drive sata ports went into the ram. This person had a 2 year computer science degree at a decent school. How is this stuff possible?




#2 shozilla

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 03:51

So I gotta rant here for a second. This is something that has been bothering me for a bit. So, by no means am I the best programmer around. I know quite a bit of programming though and have been programming for about 13 years in web programming as well as in that time I moved to desktop software programming and mobile programming (really love C# at the moment). What blows my mind though is I constantly see people get interviewed and people that even have jobs that have no concept of how to do anything but because they have a degree they have that job or get seriously considered when they are absolutly clueless. How can you be a web programmer / graduate from school with a degree and not know anything outside of HTML? I constantly hear "Oh yeah I can make professional web sites" but when I ask them what languages they use for back end programming they just stare blankly at me (have no idea what ASP.NET is or PHP or any of those). They just use Dreamweaver. How the hell does using Dreamweaver make you a professional? It doesn't! How can you have a computer science degree of 2 years but not know where memory goes on a motherboard if it's shown as a diagram? How can you have a degree in software eng. if you don't know anything outside of basic assembly and how to write C++ hello world programs. It just blows my mind. What do these people do for these companies that make money? How can they do anything useful? I had to interview someone the other day for a tech position (to repair computers not to program anything) and they had no clue what anything was on a motherboard except the cpu, they thought the video card went where the memory went, they thought the memory went where the video card went, and they thought the hard drive sata ports went into the ram. This person had a 2 year computer science degree at a decent school. How is this stuff possible?

 

 

It happens to anyone... no matter who.

 

I tried to get a job for autocad position... Every job interview I applied for, that I was told that I don't have enough experience... I say ######! 

 

You have to keep looking ... and apply on many jobs websites on the internet. You will get it one day.... but if you need cash badly, you can get regular job such as video store, or whatever you like to do so you stay with that job until you find a job that you really like based on your skills or experience.



#3 Rudy

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 03:51

They manage to fool people who know even less about the technology into hiring them. Clients often know very little and simply want a "website"



#4 sbauer

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 03:56

Honestly, degrees don't mean anything. They paid their money and did enough to graduate. Who knows how old the program was or how much group work the person relied on to graduate. It happens in a lot of professions. I've met some very bad developers with CS degrees and I've met some awesome devs with Art and History degrees. I've even met a lot of solid developers that don't even have degrees. It's all over the place.

 

I've personally met a lot of people in the software industry that do it because they want to get paid well. They don't actually enjoy the work and they don't want to spend a lot of time perfecting their craft. They just want to do what they have to do to stay employed and cash their check. 

 

The real question is: what kind of interview process do these companies have? What did they ask? Are they OK with attracting talent that isn't good if they can save some money? 



#5 IsItPluggedIn

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 03:59

This is not exclusive the the programming side of I.T. most people doing the hiring dont know the job either so it doesn't help there.

 

I work in System/network admin and the biggest problem i see is with software vendors/creators that dont know anything about the rest of the environment that their software installs on. All this software that doenst have the option to be AD integrated, or doesn't have any options to auto configure, or installs into users profiles. You are forcing your product to be home and small business only.

 

I had a vendor blame us for poor performance of their application because we installed it on a 32bit server and it didnt have enough ram, we tried to install it on a 64bit server, nope doesn't install. Ask them why, they tell me its not supported,(after spending hours rebuilding it) So i proceed to hack the install and get it to work, now my procedure to get it to work is on their support site. so balls.



#6 Garnet H.

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:05

This is why the (humorously insulting) 'FizzBuzz' test is a requisite in Software Developer interviews. It's really a shame how many people say they can program javascript because they've heard the word javascript before.

 

The absolute best programmers I know didn't learn it in University; they learned it by themselves at home (because they love it).



#7 Titoist

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:14

I recently lost my job after my 2 year-contract expired. The guy that replaced me was hired full-time after an 8-month contract.

 

My employers kept telling me;

 

"You will be considered for full time if you know:

- Job A

- Job B

- Job C"

 

When this guy was hired, all the guys at work asked him to do all 3 jobs. He told us that the only thing he was certified for was Job A, while Job B and C he never even seen. I was certified in all 3 and I was shown the door.



#8 Garnet H.

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:17

I recently lost my job after my 2 year-contract expired. The guy that replaced me was hired full-time after an 8-month contract.

 

My employers kept telling me;

 

"You will be considered for full time if you know:

- Job A

- Job B

- Job C"

 

When this guy was hired, all the guys at work asked him to do all 3 jobs. He told us that the only thing he was certified for was Job A, while Job B and C he never even seen. I was certified in all 3 and I was shown the door.

 

Are your Managers technically inclined? If not it was probably for financial reasons and the new Employee is a great bullshitter. Or maybe you're not as good at A,B and C combined as he is at A. More than likely it's a financial thing.



#9 OP sathenzar

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:17

This is why the (humorously insulting) 'FizzBuzz' test is a requisite in Software Developer interviews. It's really a shame how many people say they can program javascript because they've heard the word javascript before.

 

The absolute best programmers I know didn't learn it in University; they learned it by themselves at home (because they love it).

Exactly. I'm not trying to come across as condensending or anything I understand everyone is at different levels and that's fine. But so many people throw around the word "professional" it is just dumb. I was talking to a buddy of mine at work today and a new co-worker interjected "oh yeah I learned how to do all of that" (talking about websites) "I can do anything with a web page my college taught me how to make professional web sites". I simply asked "oh cool, what languages do you use did you use ASP.NET, PHP or...?" And they just stared at me "uh...uh....I used dreamwever (yes they said weh-ver not weaver) and we made things move around and stuff and uh...we made professional web sites". they kept ranting on and on about how pro they were. Just irritated me today ><.



#10 +_Alexander

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:20

I am finishing a CS degree. When it comes down to it, all I learned from that CS 'degree' is some Java and some C. Universities do not teach you anything.

 

Me and another developer now code almost exclusively in C# - the other developers just give feedback, they do not know C# and do not seem willing to learn it. They also do not know how to properly compare two strings in java. THis is just how things are, sometimes frustrating.


Edited by _Alexander, 04 October 2013 - 04:21.


#11 incendy

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:22

Because the people interviewing and hiring are even more clueless :D



#12 Garnet H.

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:23

Exactly. I'm not trying to come across as condensending or anything I understand everyone is at different levels and that's fine. But so many people throw around the word "professional" it is just dumb. I was talking to a buddy of mine at work today and a new co-worker interjected "oh yeah I learned how to do all of that" (talking about websites) "I can do anything with a web page my college taught me how to make professional web sites". I simply asked "oh cool, what languages do you use did you use ASP.NET, PHP or...?" And they just stared at me "uh...uh....I used dreamwever (yes they said weh-ver not weaver) and we made things move around and stuff and uh...we made professional web sites". they kept ranting on and on about how pro they were. Just irritated me today ><.

 

You'd be surprised how far arrogance can get you in business. That new employee might be your Boss one day, be careful.



#13 BetaAddict

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 04:34

This is why the (humorously insulting) 'FizzBuzz' test is a requisite in Software Developer interviews. It's really a shame how many people say they can program javascript because they've heard the word javascript before.

 

The absolute best programmers I know didn't learn it in University; they learned it by themselves at home (because they love it).

 

Exactly. I'm not trying to come across as condensending or anything I understand everyone is at different levels and that's fine. But so many people throw around the word "professional" it is just dumb. I was talking to a buddy of mine at work today and a new co-worker interjected "oh yeah I learned how to do all of that" (talking about websites) "I can do anything with a web page my college taught me how to make professional web sites". I simply asked "oh cool, what languages do you use did you use ASP.NET, PHP or...?" And they just stared at me "uh...uh....I used dreamwever (yes they said weh-ver not weaver) and we made things move around and stuff and uh...we made professional web sites". they kept ranting on and on about how pro they were. Just irritated me today ><.

 

Funny thing is that I'm working towards a CS degree myself and I completely agree with you. The problem is the standards today for getting a tech job right after graduating is pretty low. Tech is probably one of the very few industries the a bachelor's is enough to get a solid start to a tech career and a masters is not required. A lot of jobs are simply where the company is looking for manpower-related tasks as opposed to high quality work. For someone who has been in the industry for a long time, it is harder to find work compared to a fresh grad that a company can get away with paying 40k-50k.  While you may do better work, the company may not be willing to pay 70k+ when they could just hire two grads instead for similar costs.

 

As far as programming, most CS programs right now are C++ based and I concur that very few programmers make the effort to learn outside of that except for the one language they really want to learn. My goal is to also cover java and C# on my own time, probably by doing some app development as a side project to help learn the syntax. Truth is that I learn more from reading a textbook and using sites like stackoverflow in a month than I do from expensive semester-long classes, but companies rarely hire someone without a degree.



#14 Krome

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:26

sathenzar, I am on the same page in terms of rant.  And when I go to apply for a job with a friend, the friend who knows crap gets the job offer instead of me.  From there, I learn that if you are good in bull5hitting your ways, you can get through many obstacles.  But sometimes BSing failed.  I witness some embarrassing moments where some ppl fail at BSing their ways into getting a good job. :p



#15 notchinese

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:36

I get your frustration but you could be the world's best software engineer and not have a clue where the ram goes on the motherboard. They aren't really related.