Valve releases hardware specs for Steam Machine prototype

[xendrome]

They're obviously not trying to compete with consoles otherwise they would of made a console, not a open spec gaming PC with a livingroom form factor. They're different markets.

 

It's pretty clear what they are trying to do... 

 

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamMachines/

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/6/3958162/valve-steam-box-cake

http://www.ign.com/wikis/steam/Steam_Box

 

Choose to ignore everything they are speaking of for yourself, it's clear they are going to use "Big Picture" as it is called on the Steam client as the model for their UI in the SteamOS.

[theyarecomingforyou]

and how much will it cost? by the looks of it it won't be anything below $1000. so.....me personally i'm keeping my Money instead of giving it to Steam

Steam isn't charging anything for using SteamOS and I don't think there's even a cost for manufacturers to being part of the Steam Machines programme, so you're paying for the hardware. If you don't want to spend that much then that's fair enough but you're not the sort of consumer that they're targeting. It's clear that there will be different machines at different price points so it may be that there's a much cheaper option and it remains to be seen if Valve will be bundling games with it - certainly there are free-to-play titles like Team Fortress 2 and it's quite possible we'll see Half-Life 3 bundled with it as well, so that will add value to it.

 

What's important to realise is that Steam Machines will really come into their own in about three to four years when the XB1 and PS4 will be showing their age and as the price of PC-hardware has continued to drop. Gaming at 60fps at 4K simply isn't possible for consoles but it will be for Steam Machines. It also remains to be seen what deals Valve can make with media providers like Netflix, as if it is to succeed it needs to be an all round package. Being based on PC hardware it will also be possible to connect new peripherals like the Leap Motion and the Oculus Rift, as well as being upgradeable.

 

Similar to how you seem to like to find problems with the other consoles?

No, because my criticism is based on information that we know to be true or highly probable. Many developers have stated that their games won't be running at 60fps at 1080p because of performance limitations. Games include a significant markup for the licensing fees which makes them about 50% more expensive than on PC. Further, we know that consoles typically have a seven to eight year lifecycle and are fixed spec platforms, meaning they date very quickly. That's very different to suggesting that Steam Machines can't be that small or that the PSU is "insanely" small.

 

Leave your personal issues with me aside and focus on what I'm actually posting.

[Shadrack]

So it's going to be a PC, in a custom case (premium price likely because of that), with standard PC components (gaming level) running a non-standard OS dumbed down version of a full OS (nix) and the price is probably going to be just as expensive as a standard gaming PC, at least from the looks of the specs. So why buy it? There's no compelling reason. Unless this thing comes in at the price of a Xbox One or PS4, I can't see anyone spending at or above $600 for it, considering the other options at below that price level, and anyone wanting to build a gaming PC will do just that.

 

I'm waiting to see what the minimum requirements are to properly do Steam Streaming to an HDTV at 1080p.  Previous rumors suggested that a low end Steam Machine that is really only for streaming could be in the $100 - $200 price range.  Then you just use your PC to host games to your television.  I like that idea..a lot.  

 

I guess I could just find a really really long HDMI cable, too.  

 

No way I'm paying more than what an XBox One will cost for something that plays this imaginary unestablished Linux Game library.

[Athernar]

It's pretty clear what they are trying to do... 

 

Choose to ignore everything they are speaking of for yourself, it's clear they are going to use "Big Picture" as it is called on the Steam client as the model for their UI in the SteamOS.

 

None of those links have any relevance to the point.

 

If Valve wanted to compete with the consoles they would of made a closed spec console, the Steam Machines are very much PCs. That openness comes at a cost and puts them at a disadvantage compared to the PS4/One. (Less targetable optimisation, more susceptible to spec aging, etc)

 

No, this is an entirely new market segment with a different demographic.

[xendrome]

None of those links have any relevance to the point.

 

If Valve wanted to compete with the consoles they would of made a closed spec console, the Steam Machines are very much PCs. That openness comes at a cost and puts them at a disadvantage compared to the PS4/One. (Less targetable optimisation, more susceptible to spec aging, etc)

 

No, this is an entirely new market segment with a different demographic.

 

Ok, your right. So rather then waste my breath trying to have a conversation with a know-it-all on the subject, I will let you continue to tell everyone how wrong they are, just don't cross the troll line. kthx.

[exotoxic]

Not really a hard stretch. We already know it's running Linux and we know it's designed for the living room.. just taking a random distro and pre-installing the desktop version of Steam doesn't sound terribly suitable for that sort of setup, never mind they're billing it as it's own OS. What are they expecting users to do, navigate the Kickoff menu or something to start Steam? Besides, since the thing is just a PC anyway, you can slap whatever OS on it you want after the fact, Linux, Windows, whatever.

 

I expect it will boot directly in to a custom GUI which will be pretty much the same as the current steam app GUI. I don't think the user would ever see the traditional desktop without "hacking" it.

[Athernar]

Ok, your right. So rather then  waste my breath trying to have a conversation with a know-it-all on the subject, I will let you continue to tell everyone how wrong they are, just don't cross the troll line. kthx.

 

If you have reasoning behind your argument I'd love to hear it, but so far you've provided none. You've just said "this is how it is because I said so".

 

I gave you an explanation as to why they're not competing with consoles, yet you ignored it.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Ok, your right. So rather then  waste my breath trying to have a conversation with a know-it-all on the subject, I will let you continue to tell everyone how wrong they are, just don't cross the troll line. kthx.

While Steam Machines bear some similarities to consoles the approach taken is very different. For starters, they're almost certainly going to be more expensive; they're upgradeable; there will be different models which offer different performance; there will be multiple manufacturers with different designs; there are no licensing fees, etc. Even the controller is substantially different to that of traditional consoles, trying to walk-the-line between mouse and keyboard and traditional controller.

 

To say they compete isn't really accurate. It would be like saying that Honda and Ferrari compete when they're clearly targeted at different demographics.

[Noir Angel]

Not really a hard stretch. We already know it's running Linux and we know it's designed for the living room.. just taking a random distro and pre-installing the desktop version of Steam doesn't sound terribly suitable for that sort of setup, never mind they're billing it as it's own OS. What are they expecting users to do, navigate the Kickoff menu or something to start Steam? Besides, since the thing is just a PC anyway, you can slap whatever OS on it you want after the fact, Linux, Windows, whatever.

 

It's also going to be designed as a full PC OS, so I can't see why they would water it down.

[Anibal P]

It's also going to be designed as a full PC OS, so I can't see why they would water it down.

 

Gotta ignore the trolls, which sadly is almost half the ones posting, especially since really don't know much about this other than the press releases

[Noir Angel]

Should have expected it I suppose. Anything that isn't a Microsoft product is ripe for the slating here.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Should have expected it I suppose. Anything that isn't a Microsoft product is ripe for the slating here.

Or more specifically anything that competes with a Microsoft product.

[Max Norris]

It's also going to be designed as a full PC OS, so I can't see why they would water it down.

Because a full desktop OS doesn't lend itself as a streamlined environment for an entertainment center. The absolutely last thing a person who buys something that's in the same arena as a gaming console should be dealing with a console, file manager, config files and whatnot.

 

Gotta ignore the trolls, which sadly is almost half the ones posting, especially since really don't know much about this other than the press releases

Why is it that anything that goes counter to what one person believes is automatically trolling? Not allowed to have a difference of opinion and discuss it like an adult, or should it just turn into NeoChan and bitch and moan like children? I was trying to be mature about it, but if you prefer the latter, I can "derp Microsoft" with the best of them. If it matters any (and considering this audience, I doubt it does) I not only run Windows but multiple BSD and Linux desktops, and I have zero interest in any gaming consoles. So please, save the "Microsoft troll" BS for somebody else that may actually warrant it, mm'kay?

[Noir Angel]

Because a full desktop OS doesn't lend itself as a streamlined environment for an entertainment center. The absolutely last thing a person who buys something that's in the same arena as a gaming console should be dealing with a console, file manager, config files and whatnot.

 

Why not? I use my Windows 8 PC with media centre and it functions just fine as an entertainment centre. You don't have to water software down for it to work. I don't know why some people are so obsessed with this being a games console, because in the strictest sense it is not. It is a PC that is being refined to also make it usable with common console functions.

 

Valve are envisioning SteamOS not just for their own OEM use but for all of their gaming customers, it's part of their strategy of providing their gamers real alternatives to Windows 8. I don't believe it's going to be watered down at all, nor would it need to be if it were designed well.

[Athernar]

Because a full desktop OS doesn't lend itself as a streamlined environment for an entertainment center. The absolutely last thing a person who buys something that's in the same arena as a gaming console should be dealing with a console, file manager, config files and whatnot.

 

False. A full desktop OS doesn't prevent, degrade or impede the use of a streamlined enviroment in any respect.

 

The Steam Machines will probably have an accessible UEFI too regardless of the DE approach, does that also make them less ideal?

[Max Norris]

False. A full desktop OS doesn't prevent, degrade or impede the use of a streamlined enviroment in any respect.

Try running a desktop OS sometime with nothing but a gamepad, let me know how well that works out for you.

 

Why not? I use my Windows 8 PC with media centre and it functions just fine as an entertainment centre.

See above.

 

Valve are envisioning SteamOS not just for their own OEM use but for all of their gaming customers, it's part of their strategy of providing their gamers real alternatives to Windows 8. I don't believe it's going to be watered down at all, nor would it need to be if it were designed well.

I'm not bad mouthing SteamOS, I think it's nice to have an option if that's what some people want, although I don't think it's going to be the "Linux savior" that some are painting it to be.. when they can offer every single game in their Linux catalog that's also in the Windows side, then it's a real competitor. (As far as Steam goes... there's still a bunch of other stuff that won't run, but we'll gloss over that.) The point is that they're designing this to be a "media center OS", not a desktop OS. A desktop in the living room fits about as well as running Windows XP on a tablet. Yea, it works, but it sure isn't pleasant. I know what it's like on both counts, I do have a Windows box hooked up in the living room, not exactly convenient having to deal with a wireless keyboard and mouse to go with it.

 

The Steam Machines will probably have an accessible UEFI too regardless of the DE approach, does that also make them less ideal?

What does having UEFI have anything to do with it? It's still a PC under the hood.. of course it's either going to have BIOS or UEFI.. assuming they're not using leftover parts laying around the shop it'll probably be UEFI, not sure what point you're trying to make there.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I'm not bad mouthing SteamOS, I think it's nice to have an option if that's what some people want, although I don't think it's going to be the "Linux savior" that some are painting it to be.. when they can offer every single game in their Linux catalog that's also in the Windows side, then it's a real competitor.

It really depends on what publishers Valve can get onboard. The fact that Steam Machines is being widely promoted is certainly going to help. Publishers need to see a benefit to supporting it and that might be a bit difficult at first. I mean, just look at the software titles available on Steam - the catalogue isn't very diverse and it's mostly small companies.

[Athernar]

Try running a desktop OS sometime with nothing but a gamepad, let me know how well that works out for you.

 

Cue Big Picture mode. Controller based UI, does everything the user needs, desktop becomes purely optional. Gee, that wasn't hard to figure out.

 

Oh gee, they also have controllers which use touchpads! What a coincidence, this just keeps getting better!

[LaP]

Others are dropping AMD cards from their gaming PCs as well: http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/04/origin-pc-drops-amd-graphics-options/

 

Never heard of Origin PC ...

 

Why should we care about a manufacturer listening to fanboys ?

 

I've owned many AMD and nVidia cards in my life and i've been totally satisfied with both companies (the only bad card i bought was the ATI Rage Fury). I think the only fanboys i hate more than Apple fanboys are the nVidia fanboys. And this is coming from a 670 owner.

[Phouchg]

I'm also curious how they are making this thing under 3 inches tall.  Do they have some sort of specially designed components or something?  A GPU, CPU w/ cooler, and PSU are all well over 3 inches tall.  The CPU cooler could be specially designed to be slim, and the PSU could be a smaller than typical form factor, but I can't see Nvidia designing special versions of their GPUs just for them.  

 

Why not? AMD very much has for the new consoles and green side does regret it. More likely, though, Valve might be working with their board partners. ASUS already makes custom PCBs for most of their stuff - consider 670 and 760 Mini, which both stand only 6.7 x 4.8 x 1.6 inch in size. Couldn't do a reasonable 770 Mini because of cooling issues, which, I think, is the only factor to take note of. I figure pretty much everything can be crammed into a smaller board.

 

 

It will almost certainly be using mobile components rather than desktop ones. Laptops and tablets are less than half an inch tall, so squeezing a more powerful system into 3 inches shouldn't be a problem. What's bizarre is the way you're acting as if what Valve is proposing is impossible. You seem to just want to find problems.

 

Or desktop low power solutions 4770S, 4570S, which aren't much more hungry than their top shelf mobile variants, and because they don't very much need Iris Pro in there. And top shelf mobile GPUs aren't much less hungry either - 780M may want up to 100 watts. And there's no mobile Titan for reasons which must be all too clear.

 

---

 

Of size. Let's consider Bitfenix Prodigy, which (internally) is 9.84 x 12.2 x 13.4 inches, can accomodate ATX power supply, full tower CPU cooler (like 212) or water-cooling, 5.25" drive, five 3.5" drives and, for some loonies, yeah, Titan, and still contains a lot of empty space. In short, a serious HEDT in a shoebox. Now let's keep our mini-ITX board, reduce it to custom, open kind of PSU, low profile CPU cooler, no damn disc drive, single 2.5" SSHD, two very-low-profile sticks and a custom PCB graphics card and... well, they've probably done it.

 

Or perhaps they are using an external power brick? It's not like it's impossible either. Asus ROG laptops have 180W in a really small package. It gets freaking hot like hell, but at least it's not inside the device.

[Max Norris]

Cue Big Picture mode. Controller based UI, does everything the user needs, desktop becomes purely optional. Gee, that wasn't hard to figure out.

That's quaint, now read the rest of the post.

[Anibal P]

Why is it that anything that goes counter to what one person believes is automatically trolling? Not allowed to have a difference of opinion and discuss it like an adult, or should it just turn into NeoChan and bitch and moan like children? I was trying to be mature about it, but if you prefer the latter, I can "derp Microsoft" with the best of them. If it matters any (and considering this audience, I doubt it does) I not only run Windows but multiple BSD and Linux desktops, and I have zero interest in any gaming consoles. So please, save the "Microsoft troll" BS for somebody else that may actually warrant it, mm'kay?

 

Until we've seen an actual implementation all people are doing here is guessing and making assumptions based on their irrational views, or trolling because that's all they have, nothing of any real substance has been discussed her and will not be possible till we have the software and hardware available to SEE what they did vs guessing what you think they will do "wrong" , and yes you have your usual trolls here too making their usual unsubstantiated comments about the boxes and OS 

[spenser.d]

This thing really sounds more and more like a PC and not a console, and that's the market that's going to buy it.  At this point I don't see it actually competing with consoles in any significant manner.  Call it what you want, but typical PC components stuck together in typical PC manner playing PC games hooked up to a TV doesn't make it a console, it makes it a PC hooked up to a TV.  The only difference is that it's limited to games that are available on the SteamOS platform, which kind of makes it gimped compared to hooking up a PC to a TV.  It'll be interesting to see how this evolved anyways.

[Torolol]

i hope this one have a built-in Ethernet support.

[Anibal P]

This thing really sounds more and more like a PC and not a console, and that's the market that's going to buy it.  At this point I don't see it actually competing with consoles in any significant manner.  Call it what you want, but typical PC components stuck together in typical PC manner playing PC games hooked up to a TV doesn't make it a console, it makes it a PC hooked up to a TV.  The only difference is that it's limited to games that are available on the SteamOS platform, which kind of makes it gimped compared to hooking up a PC to a TV.  It'll be interesting to see how this evolved anyways.

 

But if you look at the XB One and PS4, that's all they are, locked down PCs in a nonstandard case, even the components are also made by traditional PC part manufacturers, not sure why you think there is a difference