Windows 8.1 Upgrade or full install

[Gotenks98]

Windows hasn't updated that way for years. An upgrade moves your old files, installs the new system files, then checks the previous version's manifests and copies the unknown files to the new installation. It's effectively a clean install the way we used to do it manually.

I dont know about this, in my experience in servicing computers usually when the customer tries to do an in place upgrade something breaks and we end up doing a clean install for them anyways. I remember when Windows 8 launched we had a customer whose system would not boot because the sata drivers for Windows 7 did not carry over to Windows 8. We had another customer whose system upgrade resulted in browser settings being weird and registry was corrupted.

[Eric Veteran]

I dont know about this, in my experience in servicing computers usually when the customer tries to do an in place upgrade something breaks and we end up doing a clean install for them anyways. I remember when Windows 8 launched we had a customer whose system would not boot because the sata drivers for Windows 7 did not carry over to Windows 8. We had another customer whose system upgrade resulted in browser settings being weird and registry was corrupted.

That's definitely an installer bug, then, if the upgrade wizard didn't notify you about the drivers not being upgraded. However, a clean install would have left the machine in the same state.

[Gotenks98]

That's definitely an installer bug, then, if the upgrade wizard didn't notify you about the drivers not being upgraded. However, a clean install would have left the machine in the same state.

Actually when we did a clean install it did not see the HDD initially until I loaded drivers from a usb key.

[Gotenks98]

So I just finished my vm install of Windows 8 to 8.1 upgrade using the ISO. I choose to keep everything. The only app that did not carry over correctly was cisco any connect. It does install whole new OS. I got a Windows.old folder that was about 5.77gb. Drivers did not change with this unlike my home system where the video card driver had to be updated to the 1.3 wdm version when I tested the preview out. The biggest issue I had with this is it would take me less time to have actually done the format reinstall and reinstall the apps than it did for the upgrade. I actually timed it. On a previous test it was about 30 minutes longer to doing this upgrade from Windows 8 with apps to just clean install with the apps. Again in both test there were no personal files. Just testing in a vm. I have pics if people want to see.

[Stoffel]

does anybody know where to get a key for the TechNet ISO?

 

I have 2 pc's, one came with Win8, the other one I upgraded from Win7 to Win8 Pro when it was still cheap.

 

I obviously want to upgrade these 2 pc's to Win8.1, but I have a really slow internet connection (1Mb/s)

 

So I rather download the ISO from a torrent site once, or somewhere else if anybody has a better idea, and then install it on both devices

 

What are my options? It just seems silly that I have to go through the whole download twice

[Gotenks98]

does anybody know where to get a key for the TechNet ISO?

 

I have 2 pc's, one came with Win8, the other one I upgraded from Win7 to Win8 Pro when it was still cheap.

 

I obviously want to upgrade these 2 pc's to Win8.1, but I have a really slow internet connection (1Mb/s)

 

So I rather download the ISO from a torrent site once, or somewhere else if anybody has a better idea, and then install it on both devices

 

What are my options? It just seems silly that I have to go through the whole download twice

You dont need a key for that ISO, the Windows 8 key will work on the 8.1 ISO for activation. Not for the install. You will have to search for the generic windows 8.1 product key to do the install.

[Stoffel]

You dont need a key for that ISO, the Windows 8 key will work on the 8.1 ISO for activation. Not for the install. You will have to search for the generic windows 8.1 product key to do the install.

That's they key I'm talking about, do they float around on the internet? Where would be the best place to get the ISO?

 

I don't really feel like this is pirating since I did pay for the 2 licences, just don't want to spend 2 days downloading the same software twice

[corrosive23]

It's easy to update from the preview. All you have to do is extract the 8.1 ISO, go to the sources folder. Open ccversion.ini, change 9540 to 9431. Run setup.exe and it will upgrade with no issues, and does NOT leave a windows.old folder.

[Eric Veteran]

So I just finished my vm install of Windows 8 to 8.1 upgrade using the ISO. I choose to keep everything. The only app that did not carry over correctly was cisco any connect. It does install whole new OS. I got a Windows.old folder that was about 5.77gb. Drivers did not change with this unlike my home system where the video card driver had to be updated to the 1.3 wdm version when I tested the preview out. The biggest issue I had with this is it would take me less time to have actually done the format reinstall and reinstall the apps than it did for the upgrade. I actually timed it. On a previous test it was about 30 minutes longer to doing this upgrade from Windows 8 with apps to just clean install with the apps. Again in both test there were no personal files. Just testing in a vm. I have pics if people want to see.

It does take a bit longer because it has to do the manifest comparison I mentioned. The upgrade from 7 to 8 is slightly longer in duration than a clean install from what I remember, but if you factor in reinstalling all software it ends up taking about the same time if not less.

[>Mai_]

Going from 8.1 preview -> 8.1 full will wipe out your programs and installed apps, but everything else stays the same.

 

I have a program on my tablet that is made to modify an Win 8.1 ISO to allow a upgrade from the preview, Not sure if it works though, I don't really need it but :P

[code65536]

Gotenks98 is right. It's really amusing how all of you just assume that it's a service pack and then attack him without having any evidence to back it up.

The Store upgrade is essentially an in-place OS upgrade. It is NOT a service pack. A service pack just installs (a lot of) new packages to WinSxS. The Store upgrade installs a new OS, moves the old OS to Windows.old, and then performs a migration of user profiles, installed programs, and the registry.

How do I know this? Because I tried the in-store upgrade with the Preview. "But that's just the preview!" Why on Earth would Microsoft do one thing for the Preview and then do something radically different for RTM? That defeats the whole purpose of the Preview, which is to test this sort of (unprecedented) deployment method. If they completely throw that under the bus, they'll need another round of beta testing to make sure that it all works. And if this was just a service pack, why not deploy it like a service pack via Windows Update? This update is like a service pack only with respect to timing and pricing. The scope of the update is far larger than that of a SP, and the deployment is very much like that of a traditional in-place upgrade.

But hey, don't take my word for it. Try it out for yourself! Throw 6.2 onto a VM, do the Store upgrade to 6.3, and tell me what happens. Oh, and did you notice that the stuff downloaded by the Store upgrade contains things like a huge WIM file?


Edit: And to answer the original question, I'm clean-installing all my systems because I saw how icky the install process was back when I tried the Store upgrade for Preview in my VM (this is what VMs are for, guys, for testing deployments so that you don't have to ask questions like this in a forum--you don't have to activate or anything if all you're testing is what the installation process looks like). But that's all a matter of personal opinion. If you had no problems with in-placing 7 to 8, then you shouldn't have many qualms about in-placing 8 to 8.1.

[Ravensky]

It's a whole new OS...clean install is always best anyway.

[lnmnky]

So I just finished my vm install of Windows 8 to 8.1 upgrade using the ISO. I choose to keep everything. The only app that did not carry over correctly was cisco any connect. It does install whole new OS. I got a Windows.old folder that was about 5.77gb. Drivers did not change with this unlike my home system where the video card driver had to be updated to the 1.3 wdm version when I tested the preview out. The biggest issue I had with this is it would take me less time to have actually done the format reinstall and reinstall the apps than it did for the upgrade. I actually timed it. On a previous test it was about 30 minutes longer to doing this upgrade from Windows 8 with apps to just clean install with the apps. Again in both test there were no personal files. Just testing in a vm. I have pics if people want to see.

 

He said he was getting the upgrade from the store, not an ISO. You haven't recreated the same scenario.

[lnmnky]

Gotenks98 is right. It's really amusing how all of you just assume that it's a service pack and then attack him without having any evidence to back it up.

The Store upgrade is essentially an in-place OS upgrade. It is NOT a service pack. A service pack just installs (a lot of) new packages to WinSxS. The Store upgrade installs a new OS, moves the old OS to Windows.old, and then performs a migration of user profiles, installed programs, and the registry.

How do I know this? Because I tried the in-store upgrade with the Preview. "But that's just the preview!" Why on Earth would Microsoft do one thing for the Preview and then do something radically different for RTM? That defeats the whole purpose of the Preview, which is to test this sort of (unprecedented) deployment method. If they completely throw that under the bus, they'll need another round of beta testing to make sure that it all works. And if this was just a service pack, why not deploy it like a service pack via Windows Update? This update is like a service pack only with respect to timing and pricing. The scope of the update is far larger than that of a SP, and the deployment is very much like that of a traditional in-place upgrade.

But hey, don't take my word for it. Try it out for yourself! Throw 6.2 onto a VM, do the Store upgrade to 6.3, and tell me what happens. Oh, and did you notice that the stuff downloaded by the Store upgrade contains things like a huge WIM file?

Edit: And to answer the original question, I'm clean-installing all my systems because I saw how icky the install process was back when I tried the Store upgrade for Preview in my VM (this is what VMs are for, guys, for testing deployments so that you don't have to ask questions like this in a forum--you don't have to activate or anything if all you're testing is what the installation process looks like). But that's all a matter of personal opinion. If you had no problems with in-placing 7 to 8, then you shouldn't have many qualms about in-placing 8 to 8.1.

 

The part I disagree with is that is will remove the drivers and set them back to the defaults. This should not happen (preview or otherwise).

 

The "whole new OS" part is irrelevant. As far as the user is concerned, is that the store upgrade will take care of that for the user. If it's installing it using the .old function then that's as good as a clean install, as the migration step takes place afterwards.

 

So to answer the OPs question, just use the store. It will carry out (as far as you are concerned) an update (even though it is an in-place upgrade) and your drivers should work fine.

[SnoopZ]

Wrong. This installs a whole new OS. Which is why you should not do this as an upgrade. You need to do a clean install. Basically any drivers that are currently install get set to the Microsoft defaults. Clean install is preferred because you don't want the problems of the previous OS creeping into the new install. Yeah its a pain but if you make an image afterwards you only have to do it once.

Wrong, is said he was getting his upgrade from the store so he won't lose his stuff.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

The question is if it installs as a new OS as people are saying, why does it not install the new OS, then delete the windows.old automatically?

[Eric Veteran]

The question is if it installs as a new OS as people are saying, why does it not install the new OS, then delete the windows.old automatically?

You can revert it if necessary. Also there might be something you need that the install process missed.

[freak180]

Its a giant OS Patch.. enough said :shifty:

[adrynalyne]

Its a giant OS Patch.. enough said :shifty:

Right.  I am not understanding the argument over what is essentially nothing more than semantics.

[+kpo6969 Subscriber¹]

This might clear up some misconceptions http://www.winbeta.org/news/everything-you-need-know-about-windows-81-rollout-including-pricing-and-availability ;)

I would rather do a clean install if possible. Would the iso be available through the store as an option as well as the in-place upgrade?

I also saw this earlier which might be of interest to some but does not pertain to me:

 

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-Blocks-Leaked-Windows-8-1-Keys-with-GA-Rollup-Updates-391720.shtml

[Jeston Veteran]

Uh, I upgraded my fairly old Windows 8 (installed when 8 went RTM) installation to 8.1 using my Technet ISO when it came out and it didn't create a Windows.old folder. None of my stuff was touched and I didn't need to reinstall anything. Just pretty much installed like an update... Not that I'm saying it is just an update, but it certainly installs like one. I don't know what anyone did differently to cause it to create Windows.old, but it definitely didn't do that for me.

 

P.S. I'm usually one who clean installs with new OSes, but I have had literally zero issues with this as an upgrade.

 

My advice: install as an upgrade and see how it goes. If something gets broken along the way, do a clean instead. No reason not to try. I know your important things are backed up already anyway ;)

[primexx]

Lots of confusion. So is there a final answer yet whether it's a Service-Pack-like install process or a major-version-upgrade-like process?

 

Also, anyone know if there'll be an official source to get the Win8.1 ISO for future fresh installs?

[BoDEAN]

I did a clean install of Windows 8.1 RTM.  I also installed the GA Rollup (3 KB patches).  Works great

[srbeen]

I hacked-installed 8.1 update and do NOT recommend it. I of course also did the 'upgrade' from windows 7 install.. Everything got botched from 8 - 8.1, BSOD's left and right. specifically kernel_data_inpage_error, but also critical_process_died, and sometimes hex codes. All over the map with 20 min uptime before crashing. The problem was bad drivers and the fix was updated drivers... Due to it being sloppy and my drive 90% full I did a complete reinstall, and heres how.

 

1) backup everything important. export bookmarks, emails, configuration/setting files, take screenshots of confusing network shares, etc. You'll be starting fresh.

 

2 - optional) Refresh your PC without affecting your files. This will basically work like reinstalling windows over itself, except more intelligent as it will hash the install files to your HDD files and overwrite those which don't match - like 4 min on my SSD. The key is it generates a list of what was installed before wiping it. Once complete, log back in and copy the HTML list it generated of your now uninstalled programs to a USB/network share/DVD or whatever. this seemed quicker than any other method I could find to know what I should reinstall. It left a bunch of crap all over the C drive, so I carried on.

 

3) remove everything and reinstall windows. Pretty self-explainatory. It will ensure windows 8.1 is how it should be. it cleaned up my C: folder and booted into a 'from factory' boot when you first get windows 8. If this step or optional 2 says your missing files you need to pop in the full install, but upgraders should find the install.wim on the install/update media you hopefully made (USB/CD/ISO) and copy it to c:\refreshimage and then use command prompt to set the image so windows can refresh and restore from it. Google should help.

 

4) reinstall Windows 8 updated drivers for your devices. You can leave the MS ones there, but you only get basic functionality. ensure device manager has no question marks or exclaimation points. I had to go to properties and hardware ID and search the line on google to find the correct drivers for some. I was using windows 7 packages thinking they were 'good enough', was I wrong.

 

5) I'd suggest making a restore image at this point so you can always start here again.

[gohpep]

clean-installs are generally now only used for when there's a ton of crap you don't want on your computer, but upgrades should work fine as it does almost the same thing you would do manually in a clean-install if you plan on re-installing everything you had