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Syndicated? Please. Let me know when he lands on a real station with a network that can be measured on a PPM in a top 25 market. Heck, top 50 or so. Public Broadcasting as far as I know isn't measured. Even Disney Radio isn't measured. pffft. Syndicated? HA.

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That's done for safety reasons and the pretence isn't to deceive.

Fine. Then a fake plane is safer than a real plane, and probably cheaper. And doesn't incur as high an opportunity cost. And what is deceitful about a fake plane that isn't deceitful about fake bullets in a gun salute? Is the point of the plane to have something there that looks like a plane, or do they expect the dead person to be disappointed that they can't hop in and take it for a joyride?

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It's the thought that counts guys :)

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So basically you are using the video parts that satisfy your agenda and cherry pick the parts out that don't. Got it. 

I posted a news story and offered my opinion on it.

 

Military ceremonies are measured in scale by the manpower involved. Moving a cargo plane takes 2 guys (Driver and guider) 10-15 minutes and costs nothing. If you've got a tonne of troops marching in a parade then it'll be deemed a big ceremony. Heck they wheel the Lancaster bomber outside in the open on nice days here purely so the plane spotters can gawk at it. They'll wheel fighter jets out to pose for office photos. 

 

After reading up, this entire ceremony is definitely purely for ceremon sake. Tradition, to honour the dead. The bodies having arrived previously and will be sat in forensics to be identified. They have since renamed the ceremony to address any confusion.

I just don't think it's an appropriate way to honour the dead. It strikes me as rather fake, designed to elicit patriotism rather than respect the individual. It's a pantomime. I can understand and respect colleagues and family members greeting a body as it returns into the country and a ceremony building up around that?given military tradition I would even expect it to be exaggerated to some degree?but not treating a body like a prop in a drama production by loading it on and off a plane for an audience.  :no:

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Considering the history of censorship surrounding the return of dead soldiers in the US it is hard to consider it anything but propaganda. Typically ceremonies don't try to pass themselves off as something they're not, they are simply designed to respect the occasion.

 

 

It's vulgar patriotism used to portray the act of killing as a noble profession. No longer are western wars about defending the homeland but about securing economic interests abroad; no longer are people conscripted into service but rather volunteer to join. However, the reason we don't treat soldiers in the same way is because it is utterly tasteless and crass. And when you start with soldiers it's hard to know when to stop, which is why you now see similar displays in the US when it comes to police and firemen.

 

However, I utterly reject the implication that soldiers in the UK are treated with contempt and have to hide their profession in order to avoid getting beaten up. I regularly see soldiers in their uniforms and they are proud of it. The town of Royal Wootton Bassett has long held public gatherings to salute the repatriation of dead servicemen and I have seen nothing but respect for soldiers, though I am aware that some soldiers are occasionally subjected to verbal abuse from people critical of the war (especially Muslims because of the nature of modern conflicts). Whatever disagreements I have over the UK's foreign policy I put aside when it comes to respecting the brave men and women risking their lives for their country.

 

Your comment makes it sound like you don't understand British culture - being low key and reserved is our way of respected soldiers.

 

PS - You should never use the Daily Mail to support your argument if you want to be taken seriously.

 

Well, my nephew was last night when he and his non army mates weren't allowed into a night club because he is in the army.

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Well, my nephew was last night when he and his non army mates weren't allowed into a night club because he is in the army.

One incident does not prove national contempt towards soldiers.

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One incident does not prove national contempt towards soldiers.

Never said it did.  But there is contempt throughout the country from different types of people.

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Never said it did.  But there is contempt throughout the country from different types of people.

There's contempt for people who wear the wrong football shirt or dress in an unconventional way too, so I don't see the point you're trying to make. Even in the US you have the Westboro Baptist Church picketing the funerals of dead soldiers. The point is the vast majority of people respect soldiers.

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oh come on.... i understand the ceremonies for the dead from war cus they are fighting for our freedom whilst most people are happy sitting on there arses eating mcdonalds but moaning over planes that cant fly is abit rediculous

 

its like having a memorial for the dead from world war 2.... if no allied force gained traction we'd all be speaking german and probably killed for bad mouthing the fuhrer, they should be remembered but moaning about a plane that cant fly is stupid

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oh come on.... i understand the ceremonies for the dead from war cus they are fighting for our freedom whilst most people are happy sitting on there arses eating mcdonalds but moaning over planes that cant fly is abit rediculous

 

its like having a memorial for the dead from world war 2.... if no allied force gained traction we'd all be speaking german and probably killed for bad mouthing the fuhrer, they should be remembered but moaning about a plane that cant fly is stupid

"they should be remembered but moaning about a plane that cant fly is stupid"

 

No doubt about that!

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I posted a news story and offered my opinion on it.

 

 

 

You posted an opinionated video piece, which you cherry picked out the parts that didn't go with your agenda, ironman posted the actual story. 

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You posted an opinionated video piece

Both the video and the source article highlighted that the ceremonies were fake / phony and that the planes were not operational, with the video positing that it could be considered propaganda (something the corporate media would never publish for fear of a backlash from sponsors). If you don't agree with it then that's fine and I respect that but clearly it is a subject worthy of a debate. As I said, and the video supports, I consider it to be propaganda.

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That wasn't my point. I was simply explaining how I consider it to be propaganda and distasteful. Others are free to disagree and I have always been willing to respond to other people's perspectives, even if I disagree with them.

 
 

Had they been real working planes it wouldn't have been a news story.  :rolleyes:

 

How is it propaganda? Its just a tradition.

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^

 

And the video also supports the other side, that it's ceremonial. It also doesn't look like the Pentagon was trying to hide this fact that they used a non working plane and they give a valid explanation. What you fail to understand is that using this as a propaganda tool is both a waste of time and money. Most of these are held for families and veterans and are rarely if ever publicized to the general public for public viewing. So who exactly are they trying to convince and what is the message? If it's propaganda it's to a very limited market, part can't server again and part lost loved ones to those putting on the ceremony. 

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