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Xbox One eSRAM + DirectX 11.2, where 32Mb = 6GB


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#1 Alladaskill17

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 19:18

Not trying to start a flame warm etc, assuming some of you can take it for what its worth and not start a fanboy contest in either direction.

Just going to leave this here: Channel9 MSDN

 

 


While texture tiling has been done in software before, it had certain limitations. By moving it to hardware the limitations were removed. Without going into all the technical details, in short, the benefits of removing these limitations are so impressive that it allows developers to store texture data sizes that previously took up 3GB of RAM in only 16Mb of RAM! Not only does it offer a drastic reduction in size, but it can also allow more detailed worlds than before since now developers have a lot more texture storage available.
 

In addition to textures, and presumably the reason Microsoft prefers to call this partial resident resources, is because this technique can also be applied to other areas such as shadows through shadow mapping. It's demonstrated in the video at 22:40.

 

Pictures and other links, as well as the full explanation can be found at the link above.




#2 psionicinversion

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 19:25

Not trying to start a flame warm etc, assuming some of you can take it for what its worth and not start a fanboy contest in either direction.

Just going to leave this here: Channel9 MSDN

 

 

 

Pictures and other links, as well as the full explanation can be found at the link above.

 

 

What games employ this though? or is it done automatically? if so is it worth upgrading to 8.1 if the benefits are better? and if mantle is used instead of the majority of the dx api and is found to be superior where does that leave tile based rendering?



#3 Neo003

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 19:27

What games employ this though? or is it done automatically? if so is it worth upgrading to 8.1 if the benefits are better?

 

He meant for X-1 Not windows.



#4 Neo003

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 19:28

Though that does explain MS not spending so much money after GDDR5 and sticking with DDR3 and not going the 699 price point.



#5 trooper11

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 19:29

Its certainly an informative post. Definitely for the technically inclined that are interested in how these things really work.

It sounds like there is potential there, but it requires devs to put in more effort to properly utilize vs the standard methods of development for say a pc.

Also, until this can be demonstrated in games, many people will disregard any technical advantage they are talking about. So hopefully MS is working with devs to actually maximize this. It sounds like IW and DICE simply ran out of time to really dig into any features that required extra dev time beyond standard pc development. Will that make a different later on? We will see.

#6 Torolol

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 19:30

so, that why a certain game can have 1080p native resolution on PS4, but on Xbox One only using 720p unscaled to 1080p ...



#7 Athernar

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 19:32

Ah yes, hardware megatextures. Gotta love ol' John Carmack, ahead of the curve again.



#8 spacer

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 19:35

That is a pretty dramatic difference in texture size. Hopefully it's actually practical to implement. Are there any games that use this technique, today?



#9 Athernar

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 19:37

That is a pretty dramatic difference in texture size. Hopefully it's actually practical to implement. Are there any games that use this technique, today?

 

RAGE, albeit it uses a slower software implementation.



#10 psionicinversion

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 19:48

He meant for X-1 Not windows.

 

yeah but 11.2 is only in windows 8.1/x1 so would be good to know the impact it may have with the x1 to see if theres going to be big performance increase/texture increase for PC users in the future



#11 psionicinversion

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 20:37

You know what thinking about it im not sure if its going to make all that much difference because yes it gets around the slow bandwidth problem from coupling eSRAM with ddr3 instead of going with GDDR5 but it still needs a decent GPU to push those pixels otherwise itll fall flat on its face or it could use some dynamic resolution scaling for instance the Ryse guy is supposed to be incredibly detailed but maybe the rest of it may not be so detailed freeing up resources, who knows guess we'll found out. If the upscalar is good then might make up for it but thinking ive noticed when a 720p picture gets upscaled to 1080 vs a true 1080 image, its quite bright a bit to sharp and the fluidity of the picture seems a bit wierd but i guess you get used to it.



#12 George P

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 20:40

He meant for X-1 Not windows.

 

 

It's also useable in Windows 8.1 since it's a part of DX11.2 but not to the extent of the XB1 since there's no eSRAM in PCs.   Still, I think it can be used to move things from your normal DDR3 system RAM into the video cards GDDR memory as well?   Remember, the idea is to save on needing huge amounts of vram.   If you notice newer and newer video cards on the PC are upping the memory as time goes on because newer and newer games need them.   Like look at BF4 for example, to run it at it's peak at the best possible gfx quality and highest 1440p res you'll need 4GB of vram.   Most cards out there ship with 1-2GB. 



#13 George P

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 20:43

That is a pretty dramatic difference in texture size. Hopefully it's actually practical to implement. Are there any games that use this technique, today?

 

Only in software, which is the difference here because hardware will always be the faster solution.   Anyways, MS has working tech demos that developers can look at, the rest is them trying to take advantage of.   I figure it'll take them a bit more time but once they can get a handle on it, it should make things more interesting.   And I'm sure we'll see first party MS games using it if none are right now.



#14 OP Alladaskill17

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 20:47

I don't think any games use this tech (previously done by software, this is at the hardware level). I believe the linked post points to an engine using this.

#15 George P

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 20:48

You know what thinking about it im not sure if its going to make all that much difference because yes it gets around the slow bandwidth problem from coupling eSRAM with ddr3 instead of going with GDDR5 but it still needs a decent GPU to push those pixels otherwise itll fall flat on its face or it could use some dynamic resolution scaling for instance the Ryse guy is supposed to be incredibly detailed but maybe the rest of it may not be so detailed freeing up resources, who knows guess we'll found out. If the upscalar is good then might make up for it but thinking ive noticed when a 720p picture gets upscaled to 1080 vs a true 1080 image, its quite bright a bit to sharp and the fluidity of the picture seems a bit wierd but i guess you get used to it.

 

Since more goes on in a game than just pushing a simple picture at 1080p vs 720p it depends on the developers.  This is about having high quality textures with very little impact to RAM and bandwidth and so on.   But there's still other things going on that are in memory and being worked on by the GPU and CPU.   Developers can gain from this but might decide to use what they've gained in some other area, adding more AI or something else, etc.  

 

Like even with PC gaming, depending on your video card, I have a 7870 for example.  With newer games like BF4 I could run it at 1080p on high settings or even ultra high but I won't hit 60 frames per second.  If i'm fine with 35-45 frames per second then that's ok, but if the developer of the console version wants 60fps locked then they'll cut back on the res to do so and let the upscaler take over.    This has been the case with PC gaming for years, as far as I know lots of professional multiplayer gamers will turn down the visuals to gain higher frame rates in matches.





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