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Posted

The family of a 3-year-old killed in a northern Missouri house fire early Oct. 31 says it is outraged after police used a stun gun to subdue the boy's stepfather as he tried to run back into the burning house to rescue the boy.

Riley Miller, the boy, died in the fire at the home in the town of Louisiana. A city police officer fired his stun gun at the stepfather, Ryan Miller, as he tried to re-enter the burning home. Authorities at the scene reportedly determined it was too dangerous to make an attempt to save the boy.

Lori Miller, the boy's grandmother, says she witnessed two officers use the stun gun three times, twice after Ryan Miller had been handcuffed. Miller suffered chest burns and was later released from the city jail without being charged.

City Administrator Bob Jenne called the police response a "judgment call.

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Posted

There are two sides to this story, neither is good.

1. Firemen has said the fire was too hot for them to go in, even with their full protective gear. If the father went in he would have died and there would have been two bodies to remove, not one.

2. But what father won't run into a burning building to try and save his son's life, even if he knew he was going to die? And who has the right to stop him from trying?

That said, not sure why the police had to take him to jail after though...he just lost his son, his emotions were quite justified. It's just a sad / ###### situation all around :no:

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Posted

They probably saved his life ultimately. 

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Posted

i like how you can taser anyone for failure to comply with anything 

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Posted

###### the government and the stupid people that they employee.

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Posted

It was sad his son died in the fire. I feel the police was justified in tasering the step-father, because if it was too hot for a fireman to enter, what made the father think he could enter.  I think the step father was overwhelmed with emotions and tried runing in on emotions and not thinking.

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Posted

**** the government and the stupid people that they employee.

Those stupid people saved the father's life. Firemen in full protective gear said it was too hot and too dangerous for them to go in, and I'm pretty sure they know what they're talking about.

Like I said, there's no right outcome to this whole thing. Father goes in, he dies, police / firemen have to pull out two bodies and their family is now 2 less. Father doesn't go in, he has to live with knowing that he left his son to die.

Either way you look at it, it's ######.

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Posted

**** the government and the stupid people that they employee.

 

yea, they should have just let the man run in & burn to death.

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Posted

yea, they should have just let the man run in & burn to death.

And then the family would have sued the city for letting the father run into the burning building, causing his death.
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Posted

The fact that a taser was used makes this news. If he was physically held back, it would be a heartbreaking story and the Police would of came off looking ok. But instead we get a story filled with anger, hate, police are made out to be ######.

Anyway, doesnt change the fact that the father acted on emotion/impulse like any good dad would do. He wasnt thinking about anything but his son and he would of died before rescuing his son. And what would of happened to the rest of his family and what would they do without a him...the father. I feel for him...but it was for the best and in time he will realize this...or at least I hope so.

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Posted

I would have hosed him down with water and wished him good luck. ;)

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Posted

I would have hosed him down with water and wished him good luck. ;)

If the fire was that hot for the fireman...he would of gotten one or two steps in the door before he was dead. Water would not of mattered.

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Posted

If the fire was that hot for the fireman...he would of gotten one or two steps in the door before he was dead. Water would not of mattered.

Clearly you have not seen every other TV movie from the USA. He would have been saved by Jesus.
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Posted

exactly.. which would of costs the city around 200,000 dollars and people would be all ######..

And then the family would have sued the city for letting the father run into the burning building, causing his death.

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Posted

yea, they should have just let the man run in & burn to death.

 

That was his choice to make.

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Posted

That was his choice to make.

True, but also false if not for the greater expense of more lives, emergency workers would have to try to save him after he because victim to the heat and smoke FURTHER risking MORE peoples lives who shouldn't have too. Dependent on his size and strength, perhaps tazer is the only thing that could be used with out hurting him or allowing him to hurt others.

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Posted

That was his choice to make.

 

I'm not so sure. Literally, I'm not sure about the law here. The firemen have duty and responsibility once they are on the scene. Exactly what that is from a legal standpoint I don't know. There has to be liability. What if it wasn't the stepfather, but a wannabe hero bystander, should they have let him run in as well?

 

It may look to a layman like there's time to be a hero but we're talking fire, smoke, oxygen (or lack thereof). He wouldn't have gotten far I'm sure. It's just a sad story.

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Posted

It's a tragic circumstance but if the building genuinely was too hot to enter

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Posted

That was his choice to make

 

It would of been suicide if he would of gone in after his son.  Like it or not, the authorities are there to protect someone even if it's from themselves.

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Posted

This is a real tough one.  I was discussing this with my wife last night because it is such a complex scenario.

 

I think we both decided it would have to do with how big the fire was, which is a very difficult thing for law enforcement and first responders to assess by themselves....  (however, firefighters are trained to assess the size of a fire).

 

If the fire was small and the child had even a small chance of being saved by their parent, the officers were in the wrong.

 

If the fire was large and it was damn near impossible to save the child; the parent would basically throw their lives away: the officers were in the right.

 

Hypothetically:

 

My wife and I have a fire in our kitchen, and for some reason the fire is small but we still decide to leave the building.  When we are outside we realize the kids are upstairs and have not come out.  Simultaneously some cops are passing by (I know..I'm getting ridiculous here), and notice that there is a small amount of fire activity inside.  They then prevent us from going back in side and force us to wait for the fire department by whatever means they have at their disposal (force, tazzer, anal probes, whatever).  The result of us not being allowed to go back inside means the kids died in the fire.

 

We'd probably try a wrongful death suit against them.

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Posted

Shadrack, on 07 Nov 2013 - 16:26, said:

Hypothetically:

 

My wife and I have a fire in our kitchen, and for some reason the fire is small but we still decide to leave the building.  When we are outside we realize the kids are upstairs and have not come out.  Simultaneously some cops are passing by (I know..I'm getting ridiculous here), and notice that there is a small amount of fire activity inside.  They then prevent us from going back in side and force us to wait for the fire department by whatever means they have at their disposal (force, tazzer, anal probes, whatever).  The result of us not being allowed to go back inside means the kids died in the fire.

 

We'd probably try a wrongful death suit against them.

 

The key point you didn't add to your hypothetical that the main story had was "A firefighter tried unsuccessfully to enter the home and it was deemed too hot for the stepfather to enter." If a fire is that big, that the firefighters can't even get in, the police actually have a job to save more lives keeping normal people out at that point.

 

Its a heartbreaking story, but the family has no right in this instance to sue the town for doing their jobs of saving lives. They are going to ruin some other people's lives with a needless lawsuit.

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Posted

This is a toughie. The taser would he used 1) for an immediate result and 2) to protect the officers from injury by the father in his expected struggle to get free from them.

Which ever way you cut it there were no good choices to make here, just varying degrees of undesirable ones.

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Posted

What if it wasn't the stepfather, but a wannabe hero bystander, should they have let him run in as well?

 

Yes. He was self-less, even if not thinking straight. There is a chance that he could have made it in and out, knowing the layout of the home better than the others, etc... you never know, but no matter what 'laws', etc it was his choice to go after the kids.

 

Heck, the professionals ultimately had no real vested interest in saving the child, this father did what I hope all fathers would do, risk their life for the kids.

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Posted

True, but also false if not for the greater expense of more lives, emergency workers would have to try to save him after he because victim to the heat and smoke FURTHER risking MORE peoples lives who shouldn't have too. Dependent on his size and strength, perhaps tazer is the only thing that could be used with out hurting him or allowing him to hurt others.

 

You are assuming that they HAD to go save him in the blaze (hint, they wouldn't as they gave the kid up for dead). Nothing would have been lost save his own life should he have failed the rescue.

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Posted

Yes. He was self-less, even if not thinking straight. There is a chance that he could have made it in and out, knowing the layout of the home better than the others, etc... you never know, but no matter what 'laws', etc it was his choice to go after the kids.

 

Heck, the professionals ultimately had no real vested interest in saving the child, this father did what I hope all fathers would do, risk their life for the kids.

 

And if he only makes it in a few feet, gets 3rd degree burns over his entire body, doesn't save his son and lives a horribly disfigured life (doesn't die a hero, doesn't save the son)? Should anyone be liable? What if he has no health insurance? Who should pay for his care and treatment?

 

Should the firemen be expected to risk their lives to save "him" at that point?

 

Just questions to ask. I will also note, most firemen become that for the purpose of saving lives in fires. Their dedication to the task is their vested interest. They're human like everyone else, there are good and bad but in general I believe this to be the case.

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