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trust me, Microsoft is not really interested in the search business. who cares if bing loses money, it serves one purpose and one purpose only, to hurt google. every tiny piece of share bing gains, google as a company takes a hit. I don't believe any candidate who is such short sighted would even make the shortlist, therefore I believe these rumors to be false.

and its just so convenient all these guys are coming out of the woodworks 2 weeks before the xbox one launch to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt. bravo. golf clap.

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Bing should definitely be killed off. It's been a failure from the start.

 

There's a lot of positives in branching off Xbox into it's own business but also creates a lot of uncertainties. Right now a lot of suits who don't care about the games industry are in charge of it which isn't healthy or good for the long term outlook.

 

Yup.

 

Killing the Xbox business would be terrible, a gaming industry without competition is scary. What needs to be done at MS is the Xbox gaming division suits completely gutted, bunch of idiots running the place considering the Xbox One's birth to the world - At least a decent amount of 180's have been done. The people in charge need to at least have some sort of interest in gaming and not just driving humvee's and shouting "America **** yeah".

 

If Sony can launch a PS3 which completely wiped out PS2 profits, and still continue on so can MS.

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Microsoft may have lost a lot of money with Bing and other online services but that may change in the future. Windows 8.1 has better Bing integration and the Xbox One is a great opportunity for Microsoft to push Bing. Also, Office 365 was recently updated to better-compete with Google's offerings. If Bing dies, then nothing can stand in the way of Google when it comes to search.

The problem is that most of the success for Bing has been bought rather than earned, with Microsoft losing billions of dollars while Google continues to make billions of dollars. It remains to be seen whether Bing can maintain that market share when Microsoft stops subsidising it. Most of the Windows 8.1 integration relates to Metro which has proven less than successful on the desktop, while web browsing on the Xbox One simply isn't a primary function.

 

However, your concern for what will happen if Bing were to disappear is well-founded. It is not good for consumers for Google to have complete dominance of the search market. Then again, is Microsoft really the company that we want as the alternative? Microsoft has a history of anti-competitive behaviour and has been fined numerous times for abusing its market position. What we need is a disruptive entity, much like Facebook was to MySpace. We need a rival upstart company that offers a better service, rather than a multibillion dollar corporation simply buying its way to market share.

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Seems like a very nearsighted approach to a company that traditionally looks quite a ways in the future when making its decisions.  Microsoft knew Xbox wouldn't be a success in 2001, but they still went for it and they've practically built an empire out of it whether or not its profitable - it's a common brand name that people don't immediately associate poorly with and that's good for Microsoft.  Bing is gaining popularity as well and it's clearly part of their long-term plans with the integration into their other services.

 

This is an interesting stance coming from a guy who just sold part of his own company (Nokia devices) to Microsoft - a part Microsoft has traditionally not done well in (phone hardware).

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The problem is that most of the success for Bing has been bought rather than earned, with Microsoft losing billions of dollars while Google continues to make billions of dollars. It remains to be seen whether Bing can maintain that market share when Microsoft stops subsidising it. Most of the Windows 8.1 integration relates to Metro which has proven less than successful on the desktop, while web browsing on the Xbox One simply isn't a primary function.

 

However, your concern for what will happen if Bing were to disappear is well-founded. It is not good for consumers for Google to have complete dominance of the search market. Then again, is Microsoft really the company that we want as the alternative? Microsoft has a history of anti-competitive behaviour and has been fined numerous times for abusing its market position. What we need is a disruptive entity, much like Facebook was to MySpace. We need a rival upstart company that offers a better service, rather than a multibillion dollar corporation simply buying its way to market share.

 

 

After the re-org Bing is now in a profitable division and it shows Microsoft has trust in it.

 

Also, bing isn't stand alone - the same technology they use to engineer bing at scale is the same technology they use to engineer Windows 2012 R2, HyperV, Windows Azure and all of their cloud services.

 

By your own logic, Amazon should get rid of AWS because they're not making money hand over fist and they should shut their doors because they're still taking losses or razor thin profits on their core business - yet the market still cheerleads Amazon

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The xbox one is a great part of the TV portion of the 3-screen initiative, but the Apple TV absolutely kills it in terms of everything not gamer related. Sure the IR blaster and HDMI in are cool, but not $500 + XBL cool. Meanwhile the Apple TV connects to everyone's iPhone and costs $100. I don't know that Microsoft should sell their xbox business, but they desperately need a $100 top set box to compete with Apple.

 

I don't think they desperately need a cheap STB..   I don't want/need an Apple TV because i have a roku that only cost 50 bucks, so does Apple TV now need to be 49 to compete?

 

Also, i will greatly dispute the apple tv absolutely kills anything.  360 + Smartglass is awesome and if you're into getting ripped off for watching content the service on Xbox Video + smartglass is above anything appletv has.

 

with all that said, it would be smart to have a 99.00 box, but lets face it, the 360 itself is at 149 now and it definitely has 50$ more value

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Seems like a very nearsighted approach to a company that traditionally looks quite a ways in the future when making its decisions.  Microsoft knew Xbox wouldn't be a success in 2001, but they still went for it and they've practically built an empire out of it whether or not its profitable - it's a common brand name that people don't immediately associate poorly with and that's good for Microsoft.

Surprisingly enough companies care about the profitability of their products and services. The Xbox brand has been around for well over a decade and yet it still isn't making money. Obviously there are other factors to consider?like future earnings potential, brand recognition and synergy, and competition?but Sony has demonstrated that it is all too easy to start posting major losses.

 

By your own logic, Amazon should get rid of AWS because they're not making money hand over fist and they should shut their doors because they're still taking losses or razor thin profits on their core business - yet the market still cheerleads Amazon

But it's not just my logic, is it? We're talking about an opinion shared by one of the frontrunners for the position of CEO, as well as countless analysts. As for the Amazon comparison, Amazon doesn't disclose whether AWS is profitable but its rivals are under the impression that it is hugely profitable. Further, Microsoft started in the search engine market back in 1998 (15 years ago) with MSN Search and has rebranded countless times (Live Search, Bing) yet its market share remains less than 18% - that's much longer than Amazon's AWS service has been around.

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it's our default search engine at work. 

 

Of course it would be the default search engine at Microsoft! :laugh:

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Of course it would be the default search engine at Microsoft! :laugh:

I don't work at Microsoft, sorry. 

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Bing should definitely be killed off. It's been a failure from the start.

 

There's a lot of positives in branching off Xbox into it's own business but also creates a lot of uncertainties. Right now a lot of suits who don't care about the games industry are in charge of it which isn't healthy or good for the long term outlook.

 

And having some idiot who's company has been in a nose dive for 2 years man the helm...sorry this guy shouldn't even be considered for the seat.

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Bing is the only search engine I use. Google is despicable.

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Rumors. I hope these are false. Why do that? There's no reason to. 

 

Because MS is losing money with both ?

 

Let's be honest there's not much money to be made in the console gaming world when you consider the gaming part only. MS did not create the xbox to make money with gaming. They created it to push windows on TV. The problem right now for the future of console outside of gaming is the Smart TVs. As good as the one will be for media and tv purpose it has no future in this market if the basic functionalities comes "free" with TVs and cable set top boxes and make no mistake TV manufacturers will continue to improve and sell Smart TVs and cable providers (in canada at least) will continue to sell their own set top box and improve them.

 

It would be best for ms, imo, to invest in a mobile OS tailored for TVs. A mobile OS TV manufacturers could include with their Smart TVs. The longer MS waits the more chance it has to be beat by Apple or Google in this field. You can mark my words one day TVs will come with a good cohesive mobile OS with kb/controller support and with a store selling apps and mobile games. This will hurt the console market a lot.

 

I personally don't think this whole story is true. But i would not be surprised if MS dump the xbox hardware one day or another and focus on a XBox branded TV OS instead. We are not there yet though. I don't see MS killing Bing as it would leave Google without any competition.

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And having some idiot who's company has been in a nose dive for 2 years man the helm...sorry this guy shouldn't even be considered for the seat.

You say that but Nokia was in terminal decline when Elop took over and his decision to make the company Windows Phone exclusive positioned the company for takeover by Microsoft, which isn't surprising when you consider that Elop was the former head of Microsoft's business division. Even while at Nokia he was doing what was in the best interests of Microsoft.

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Maybe that just means that Neowin isn't only a hardcore Microsoft site? ;)

 

It is a hardcore Microsoft site. It just means Bing is really really really not popular ;) I think even WP get higher results here and it gets destroyed by Android in the real world.

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You say that but Nokia was in terminal decline when Elop

 

My memory may be wrong but i think Nokia and Symbian were still #1 on the world when Elop took over the company. Yes Nokia was declining quickly but i think the company was still in a position to be saved by a good ceo that was not acting as a trojan horse.

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My memory may be wrong but i think Nokia and Symbian were still #1 on the world when Elop took over the company. Yes Nokia was declining quickly but i think the company was still in a position to be saved by a good ceo that was not acting as a trojan horse.

He was announced as the CEO of Nokia in September 2010 and when he actually started in 2011 he issued the infamous 'Burning Platform' memo, highlighting that the company was in serious trouble. The company's stock was rated barely above junk. The decision to go Windows Phone exclusive was a desperate attempt to remain relevant. The company continued its dramatic decline under Elop but business strategies take years to implement and see results for, so that's not unexpected. What he did was to align the company with Microsoft's business model to make a takeover a viable prospect.

 

I doubt any other CEO would have fared much better.

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not sure why they would want to sell the XBox division however, killing off bing might be a good idea lol.

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And having some idiot who's company has been in a nose dive for 2 years man the helm...sorry this guy shouldn't even be considered for the seat.

 

I'm not in favour of him taking over either but the rest of my original post still stands. Investors are calling for Xbox to be seperated from Microsoft, so it's not only him proposing the idea.

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Maybe that just means that Neowin isn't only a hardcore Microsoft site? ;)

Search for polls on other sites.. most polls, google is well above bing. 

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The Xbox division hasn't been profitable for Microsoft, while its online services division (which includes Bing) continues to lose billions of dollars. Sony actually fared worse with the PlayStation 3, which highlights how competitive the market is. Microsoft would be better off selling the Xbox division and focusing on supporting third parties with open platform games machines, like Valve is doing with Steam Machines. Don't forget that the Xbox was originally intended to be a Windows based DirectX gaming console and being open platform would have been much more in-line with Microsoft's traditional business model.

 

Spinning off the Xbox division, killing off Bing and pushing Office onto iOS and Android would be a bold move for Microsoft but one that could greatly benefit the company. I wasn't convinced about Elop before but he is shaping up to be the sort of radical CEO that Microsoft needs.

Citing an Adam Hartung article? I don't put much stock in anything he writes, plus what he wrote about Xbox is incorrect. It hasn't been profitable as a whole, thanks to the RROD fiasco, but it's been profitable on a quarterly basis since then. (That is not to discount the RROD issue, before anyone asks -- it was a colossal screw-up.)

 

Also: Spinning Xbox off and selling it are not the same. Additionally, supporting third-party open platforms that have no proven track record would be a massive gamble.

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Citing an Adam Hartung article?

It's on Forbes, which is a respected publication.

 

what he wrote about Xbox is incorrect. It hasn't been profitable as a whole, thanks to the RROD fiasco, but it's been profitable on a quarterly basis since then. (That is not to discount the RROD issue, before anyone asks -- it was a colossal screw-up.)

Xbox hasn't been profitable on a long term basis. Certainly in recent years the division has posted profits but those are negated by the losses published prior to that, whether you're talking about the development costs, the subsidised price the consoles were sold at or the write-off related to hardware issues.

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Couple people here stating Elop was a Trojan quite matter-of-factly, and I'm still waiting for undeniable, without a shadow of a doubt, evidence to support that claim. 

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But it's not just my logic, is it? We're talking about an opinion shared by one of the frontrunners for the position of CEO, as well as countless analysts. As for the Amazon comparison, Amazon doesn't disclose whether AWS is profitable but its rivals are under the impression that it is hugely profitable. Further, Microsoft started in the search engine market back in 1998 (15 years ago) with MSN Search and has rebranded countless times (Live Search, Bing) yet its market share remains less than 18% - that's much longer than Amazon's AWS service has been around.

 

 

It is your logic as long as you buy into it. I don't.. I know amazon is in it for the long haul, just as i expect Microsoft is too.  AWS isn't hugely profitable, its razor thin margin and quite frankly they operate it on such thin margins under the expectation that its largely unprofitable for anyone to compete - the very same attack they use on their commerce front.

 

Bing also isn't MSN search.. msn search was a huge disaster and it was misguided and lost.  Bing was entirely new and now a core asset rather than a spinoff of a subsidiary that end the end was entirely canned (live branding). Bing itself launched after AWS.

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Bing also isn't MSN search.. msn search was a huge disaster and it was misguided and lost.  Bing was entirely new and now a core asset rather than a spinoff of a subsidiary that end the end was entirely canned (live branding). Bing itself launched after AWS.

Bing is a continuation from Live Search which was a continuation from MSN Search - it isn't a fundamentally new service. The userbase from previous iterations were migrated onwards, hence why MSNSearch.com redirects to Bing and Live.com did as well (before becoming a portral for Outlook.com). You can't pretend it's an entirely new service. The reality is that Microsoft has been trying to compete in search for 15 years now with limited success and huge losses.

 

Couple people here stating Elop was a Trojan quite matter-of-factly, and I'm still waiting for undeniable, without a shadow of a doubt, evidence to support that claim. 

I can't provide evidence for his state of mind, though I think the evidence speaks for itself. He used to work in a senior position at Microsoft, then he went to Nokia and made the controversial decision to make the company Windows Phone exclusive and then he negotiated the sale of the company to Microsoft. I do not state it as fact, though it strikes me as highly probable.

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Steven Sinofsky would make a great CEO. Hes was at Microsoft since 1989 and he headed the Windows 7 and Window's 8 development! It was stupid they fired him because he got Windows back in the right direction.

 

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