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building new PC after 2.5 years...

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#1 D4V3

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 23:01

so i am currently looking to buy / build a new rig around early to mid january.  i have build my own computers in the past, and the only reason i do not do so now is because i want a SSD to house my OS.  and i have been out of the custom coumputer loop for 2 years.  my last computer had a SSD in it just b/c my friend updated the drivers on it for me and then installed it. (i didnt know hard drives had 'drivers') 
 
i'm lookin to spend around $1600-1800 on a new rig.  1600$ if i build it myself and 1800$ if i order it from ibuypower.  the only reason i would spend the extra 200$ is that the computer would come ready to use with a SSD on it, i would have to trouble shoot any of the mobo drivers, and wouldnt have to risk doing a first time install on a SSD.  (i've never installed a SSD before, from what i read its the same as a HDD, just make sure you enable AHCI mode, make it the first boot device and presto)  is that the jist?  
so i guess my first real question is.. if it is more difficult than what i have read, how much so.  and if not, what are things to look for in a SSD.  such as read/write.  does the "controller" matter?  is SATA III the fastest?  
 
i know everyone recommends the 4770k haswell.  i'm not going to over clock, b/c im lazy, and dont want to fry my chip that i just spent 300$ on.  in that respect i will still get a closed loop water cooler like an h80 or nzxt kraken.  because i like the look of them and just in case i do get the urge to risk an over clock in the future.   i will primarily be gaming and using media.  no 3d rendering or crazy photo shop.  so i just want to be sure that the haswell is the best choice for me, and not an AMD chip or the 4820k.
 
is Xfire hard to set up?  anything special in bios you have to enable, or any crazy program i have to download?  i usually just use one card, but you never know when you have you'll have to upgrade.  so with that said i know i definitely want a r9 280x, or 290. (hundred bucks difference) maybe just get the 280x and then buy another when i need it?
 
how do memory size, memory type and memory interface, of a graphics card come into play?  how will gddr5 affect my game play as opposed to gddr3?  will there even be a noticeable difference to me? what about 258bit compared to 512?  i assume more is better, but i also understand that a certain boards can only take on so much (the extent of which i do not know)
 
last question... win7 or 8.1 ?  i feel like i'll be behind the curve if i dont get 8.1, but i only hear bad things, about their apps and how the desktop is set up, and all the touch screen stuff they incorporated.  i like good ol' fashion mouse and key board.  i've have win7 for a while and enjoy it.  guess i'm just scared of change.
 
i usually buy all my parts off newegg.
 
well here is the build i have made so far, please comment and make suggestions! 
 
DVD: ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner (this is the same one i bought 2 years ago, still good? or does it really matter?)
OS: windows 7 home 64 bit sp1
CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150
MOBO: ASUS MAXIMUS VI HERO LGA 1150 Intel Z87
SSD: Corsair Force Series GS CSSD-F240GBGS-BK 2.5" 240GB SATA III
PSU: CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX850 V2 850W
CASE: AZZA Genesis 9000 CSAZ-9000B 
HDD: Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
           or 
HDD: Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 
          what is the difference between the WD 'blue' and 'black' 
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (is there something i have to do to ensure that i enable dual channel or do i not need   to worry about that?)
VIDEO: ASUS R9280X-DC2T-3GD5 Radeon R9 280X 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready CrossFireX
             HIS H290F4GD Radeon R9 290 4GB 512-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 (i guess i could bite the bullet and pay the extra $100, but just dont know if its worth it.     400$ is a lot of money for one part)
 


Best Answer Decebalvs Rex , 18 November 2013 - 12:02

Don't buy K versions of CPU if you don't overclock and go for a 4770 ! Don't invest too much in a cpu , ram or anything but the GPU. I would get a monster GPU and couple it with an i5 and it would be enough. Perhaps you do encoding and if you don't , no need to hit elite parts and crap GPU. Cheers lad!

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#2 +riahc3

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 23:38

Hello,

DVD: ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner (this is the same one i bought 2 years ago, still good? or does it really matter?)
OS: windows 7 home 64 bit sp1
CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150
MOBO: ASUS MAXIMUS VI HERO LGA 1150 Intel Z87
SSD: Corsair Force Series GS CSSD-F240GBGS-BK 2.5" 240GB SATA III
PSU: CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX850 V2 850W
CASE: AZZA Genesis 9000 CSAZ-9000B 
HDD: Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
           or 
HDD: Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 
          what is the difference between the WD 'blue' and 'black' 
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (is there something i have to do to ensure that i enable dual channel or do i not need   to worry about that?)
VIDEO: ASUS R9280X-DC2T-3GD5 Radeon R9 280X 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready CrossFireX
             HIS H290F4GD Radeon R9 290 4GB 512-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 (i guess i could bite the bullet and pay the extra $100, but just dont know if its worth it.     400$ is a lot of money for one part)

DVD: If this is your current drive, keep it. If not, just go Blu-Ray, the difference isnt really worth it.
OS: Thats a personal preference. I have 8.1 and loving it :)
CPU: For gaming a i7-4770K is good :) You could go with a i7-4820K (youll see why later) but there are two components besides this that really kick in...
MOBO: A part that is really up to you. Some are oriented more towards overclocking and/or water cooling based setups.
SSD: Right now, the Samsung SSD 840 series is the king of the mountain. If you can afford it, go with Samsung.
PSU: Personally, I have a Seasonic and its amazing to me but to each their own.
CASE: N/A (watch for space for future upgrades)
HDD: Completely irrelevent which you choose. Blue is less in performance than Black but if its for storage, not even worth it.
RAM: I wanna talk about this very shortly and without really getting too technical. DDR2 used dual channel. DDR3 used also dual channel (more so on AMD) but also introduced triple channel. The problem with this is that it was mutiples of 3 so it was harder to get a good working memory setup (4GB*3=12GB, etc). The solution was to go quad channeling which used mutiples of 4 and was easier to "pair up" so to speak. A couple of processors only support this now, the i7-4820K being one of them which is why I suggested it earlier.
VIDEO: Ive owned AMD and nVidia. I can vouch for nVidia. The drivers updates are really awesome (WAY more supported than AMD and pumps out faster) and generally, ever since the AMD buyout, nVidia is a bit better. Crossfire/SLI is really more of a gimmick than anything intresting.

Related to video, what monitor will you run this on?

Good luck! :)

#3 +Boo Berry

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 23:44

The 290 is an awesome card in terms of price/performance.



#4 +PeterUK

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 23:46

 i would have to trouble shoot any of the mobo drivers, and wouldnt have to risk doing a first time install on a SSD.  (i've never installed a SSD before, from what i read its the same as a HDD, just make sure you enable AHCI mode, make it the first boot device and presto)  is that the jist?  

so i guess my first real question is.. if it is more difficult than what i have read, how much so.  and if not, what are things to look for in a SSD.  such as read/write.  does the "controller" matter?  is SATA III the fastest?

 

Installing a SSD is not that much trouble the main thing is setting the SATA mode to AHCI or RAID which you can enable without setting up a RAID and the SSD will work at full speed and win 7 should have drivers to get it going then you just have to update up.

 

HDD: Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s
           or 
HDD: Western Digital WD Blue WD10EZEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 

2TB is a better price for storage I've got three 2TB Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM001 in another setup all running fine but WD are just as good its down to what you have used before and had no problems with.

 CASE: AZZA Genesis 9000 CSAZ-9000B 

Thats a big case really a mid-ATX case will fit everything you need but if your happy and its what you want go for it.



#5 +riahc3

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 08:20

Hello,

SSD: Right now, the Samsung SSD 840 series is the king of the mountain. If you can afford it, go with Samsung.

Big typo on my part so I apoligize for that. Hope you havent ordered yet.

You want the Samsung SSD 840 PRO series....Very important it is the pro and not the standard or any other edition.

#6 OP D4V3

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 06:55

hey guys thanks for all the feedback, sorry it took so long for a response.  so there are some questions i feel went unanswered.  pertaining to the cpu, which is best for gaming with out overclocking the 4770 or the 4820, that being asked how much faster is quad channel than dual? is it even noticeable to someone who only games, surfs the web, and types papers for work? those games including SWTOR, HoN, Dota 2, diablo 3, SC 2.  

 

i usually buy ati cards, but my laptop has nvidia which i have had no problems with.  i was only going to get the 280x b/c of what i read in maximum pc. saying how awesome the r9 series is, and how it exponentially out performs the equivalent nvidia card.  (i've also decided not to go above 325$ for a video card). as for the case.. my last case was an azza 2000, it was huge, making wire management easy as pie, also with this new case i will be buying a h100i or equivalent, b/c from what i read, even with out overclocking these processors tend to run hot.  (reviews off of newegg)  

 

i know that riahc3 recommended nvidia, but i dont understand why some gtx 770's are $400 and some are $330.  (different gpu's i assume?) while have had no problems with my gtx 560m, i have done quite a bit of reading on the reviews and benchmarks of the r9 280x and in my reading the 280x has out performed the gtx 770, 760, and the hd 7970. so i think that it will be the best choice for performance / price.  some of the sites i read on where maximum pc, pc advisor, toms hardware, and hardocp.  

 

so here is what i've come to build.. there are 2 variations:

 

OS     - windows 8.1 64bit OEM  $130

DVD   - asus 24x  $20

cpu    - i7-4770k $340 / i7-4820 $325

mobo - asus maximus VI hero 220$ or the asus sabertooth z87 240$ / asus p9x79 LE $220

case  - azza genesis 9000 $150 / rosewill thor v2 $150 (both look good and roomy, and relative same price)

PSU  - corsair tx850 $130 (may get a thermaltake or other name brand if they are cheaper at time of purchase)

RAM  - gskill ripjaws X 2 x 8gb ddr3 1600 $140 / gskill ripjaws Z 4 x 4gb ddr3 2133 $160

SSD - samsung 840 pro SATA III 256gb $240

HDD - seagate 2tb 64mb cache 7200rpm SATA III $100

video - radeon r9 280x $310

 

 

monitor - vk278q LED 27" full HD

 

4770 setup - $1780  

4820 setup - $ 1785

 

relative same price.  guess it just comes down to do i need dual or quad channel RAM.  



#7 +snaphat (Myles Landwehr)

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:25

I would encourage you to look at benchmarks for i5s and i7s running with a set GPU and see what the frames per seconds are. You aren't going to see much of a real world difference regardless of the CPU. Here are a few:

 

http://www.dslreport...ming-Benchmarks

 

http://www.bit-tech....ll-cpu-review/5 (note that in this one they specifically chose games that stress the CPU and even then the differences are quite small)

 

http://www.hardwarec...-review-14.html (this just shows i7s in benchmarks struggling to do 60fps -- only small differences and inconsistencies in who does the best between games).

 

I've noticed that the only time you really see significant differences in fps is if the system isn't struggling with a game. That is to say -- there can be a large differences of 30-60fps for games already running at 100+ fps. This is generally because bottleneck isn't the GPU in those cases. But when you start to get to ranges of 60fps or lower the bottleneck is almost always the GPU so you don't tend to see much fluctuation in terms of FPS between different processors.

 

The key thing to take away here is that processor is going to make the largest difference in times where it doesn't actually matter (>60fps) and make the littlest difference in times where it does matter (<60fps).



#8 +snaphat (Myles Landwehr)

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 18:35

There are two differences in the GTX 770s: (1) 4GB vs 2GB of RAM, (2) differences in clock rates.

 

See:

http://www.newegg.co...N=-1&isNodeId=1

 

EDIT: It looks like all of the 4GB ones hover in the 370+ range. And there is even a 500 dollar one with slightly better clock rates...



#9 OP D4V3

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:55

i feel like "the best" cpu argument could go on for days...  yes the 4670 is on par with the 4770 for gaming but its still not 'the best' and in other tasks, too many to list but you can check out anandtech.com for a full list and comparisons of different benchmarks.  



#10 Decebalvs Rex

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:02   Best Answer

Don't buy K versions of CPU if you don't overclock and go for a 4770 ! Don't invest too much in a cpu , ram or anything but the GPU. I would get a monster GPU and couple it with an i5 and it would be enough. Perhaps you do encoding and if you don't , no need to hit elite parts and crap GPU. Cheers lad!



#11 nitins60

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:14

Don't buy K versions of CPU if you don't overclock and go for a 4770 ! Don't invest too much in a cpu , ram or anything but the GPU. I would get a monster GPU and couple it with an i5 and it would be enough. Perhaps you do encoding and if you don't , no need to hit elite parts and crap GPU. Cheers lad!

+1



#12 +riahc3

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 14:36

Hello,

hey guys thanks for all the feedback, sorry it took so long for a response.  so there are some questions i feel went unanswered.

Well, go ahead and ask and we will try to help you out.

pertaining to the cpu, which is best for gaming with out overclocking the 4770 or the 4820, that being asked how much faster is quad channel than dual? is it even noticeable to someone who only games, surfs the web, and types papers for work? those games including SWTOR, HoN, Dota 2, diablo 3, SC 2.

Asking for CPU, GPU and RAM all in one paragraph :p

I can't give you a technically answer to quad/dual but I will tell you that when I switched from single to dual, I noticed a difference. I think you will notice it too. Also, at the end of the day, I believe it isnt that more expensive (dont quote me on that though) if you are going with huge GBs of RAM.
 


i usually buy ati cards, but my laptop has nvidia which i have had no problems with.  i was only going to get the 280x b/c of what i read in maximum pc. saying how awesome the r9 series is, and how it exponentially out performs the equivalent nvidia card.  (i've also decided not to go above 325$ for a video card). as for the case.. my last case was an azza 2000, it was huge, making wire management easy as pie, also with this new case i will be buying a h100i or equivalent, b/c from what i read, even with out overclocking these processors tend to run hot.  (reviews off of newegg)  
 
i know that riahc3 recommended nvidia,

Although magazines are great, you do have to know that driver updates usually even out a equivalent nvidia to ati or ati to nvidia. Read reviews online, they usually have this information a lot better updated than magazines and some magazine are prox and proy (someone has to pay for all that paper printed)

Also, some games you play (or might not play) are "optimized" for a certain card. I believe it was Doom 3 (someone correct me if Im wrong) would play awesome using a AMD (at the time ATi) card and would play horrible with a nVidia, yet all other games the nVidia won over the AMD.

Im not a video card expert so Ill let other members handle that but I went to a ATi (recommended by Neowin) then years later to a nVidia (recommended by Neowin) and its great :) I like nVidia just because their drivers work with even older cards. But besides that, tommorow for a good deal and good performance upgrade, Id switch to ATi again.

but i dont understand why some gtx 770's are $400 and some are $330.  (different gpu's i assume?)

Not the different GPU but brand and/or some other useful (or not so useful) upgrades. Some preoverclock the card to give a extra percentage while others have better heatsinks. Some add more video RAM (useful upgrade).

The most important for high end gaming is more RAM.

some of the sites i read on where maximum pc, pc advisor, toms hardware, and hardocp.

Great job. Reading and reading reviews is really the way to go :)
 

so here is what i've come to build.. there are 2 variations:
 
OS     - windows 8.1 64bit OEM  $130
DVD   - asus 24x  $20
cpu    - i7-4770k $340 / i7-4820 $325
mobo - asus maximus VI hero 220$ or the asus sabertooth z87 240$ / asus p9x79 LE $220
case  - azza genesis 9000 $150 / rosewill thor v2 $150 (both look good and roomy, and relative same price)
PSU  - corsair tx850 $130 (may get a thermaltake or other name brand if they are cheaper at time of purchase)
RAM  - gskill ripjaws X 2 x 8gb ddr3 1600 $140 / gskill ripjaws Z 4 x 4gb ddr3 2133 $160
SSD - samsung 840 pro SATA III 256gb $240
HDD - seagate 2tb 64mb cache 7200rpm SATA III $100
video - radeon r9 280x $310
 
 
monitor - vk278q LED 27" full HD
 
4770 setup - $1780  
4820 setup - $ 1785
 
relative same price.  guess it just comes down to do i need dual or quad channel RAM.

I couldnt find a i7-4820k but on paper the i7-4820 looks better (odd it is cheaper). Either way, both are fine.

Go with quad channel. In time, you will appriciate it :)

Personally (and this is personal, nothing wrong or right about it), for and new build and 30 bucks more you can get a Blu-Ray burner. Since Xbox One, PS4, and Wii U all use Blu-Ray, its possible that software (games) in some future will be released on Blu-Ray. Battlefield 4 itself is 23 GB being released 3 DVDs. Just something to think about :)

Your HDD Im not sure where you are buying from but I found this http://www.ecrater.c...gb-s-7200?gps=1 Same price, one TB more. Where are you buying from so we can get a idea on where to look or from where to buy?

Besides that, I cannot help you much more, sorry....