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Need Recommendation for Dual Gigabit WAN Router

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#1 IncurableGeek

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 23:04

I have a confession to make. Although I joined this forum way back when we were all much younger, I have just now come to require your advice and expertise. Spent the entire afternoon reading one of the networking threads and now must confess I feel like a confirmed idiot. You guys are good.

 

At any rate:

 

Briefly, I own Cisco SG300-10 10-port Gigabit Managed Switch (SRW2008-K9-NA) - http://www.amazon.co...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1 A gorgeous piece of equipment, almost orgasmic for me. :)

At present:

1) I have 5 computers and a file server - running Win 7 64 bit Ultimate and Linux, with a total of 40-45 TB.

2) All ethernet CAT 6 hardwired - (darned if I'll ever use wireless! :p)

3) I need Dual Gigabit WAN router to complement the above Cisco switch

Now here's where the wheels come off. There are only two Cisco routers that appear worthy of consideration from http://www.cisco.com...ters/index.html

1) Cisco Systems Gigabit VPN Router (RV320K9NA)  http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top  - Complete with some real crappy reviews. Actually a real piece of Krap!

2) Cisco Dual Gigabit WAN VPN Router (RV042G-NA)  http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top

My conclusion from reading reviews about Cisco is that they tend to ship ancient products with ancient firmware. Could be wrong?

Then there are:

1)  ZyXEL ZyWALL USG100 Unified Security Gateway Firewall w/50 VPN Tunnels, SSL VPN, 7 Gigabit Ports, and High Availability  http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top  More expensive than I would like, but supposed to be rock-solid quality.

2) ZyXEL ZyWALL USG50 Internet Security Firewall with Dual-WAN, 4 Gigabit LAN / DMZ Ports, 5 IPSec VPN, SSL VPN, and 3G WAN Support  http://www.newegg.co...0131110222729:s Great reviews but said to be a real *itch to set up, by people who network for a living.

3) Peplink Balance 20 Dual-WAN Router  http://www.amazon.co...eywords=peplink

4) TP-LINK TL-ER6120 Gigabit Dual-WAN VPN Router, 2 WAN ports, 2 LAN ports, 1 DMZ port, Ipsec PPTP L2TP VPN, Load Balance  http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top


I need the obvious:

1)  Good WAN to LAN throughput
2)  UTM – Unified Threat Management  http://www.untangle.com/
3)  UPNP – Universal Plug and Play
4) Clear understandable GUI setup - not interested in learning some arcane language
5) Compatible with Linux and Windows
6) Firewall that would scare the NSA into sobriety

 

Please feel free to tell me I don't know what the hey I'm talking about. I just wanna learn and gotta pretty substantial ego. Thanks, guys!
 




#2 Roger H.

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 23:20

I like the usg50 or the Rv042g. Dunno performance wise what they packing but those are the ones I checked put when lookingnfor the same. Didn't end up getting one yet (red tape) bit still liking the USG even though they say its a pain.

#3 +BudMan

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 23:27

You stated you need dual wan, and then go into everything but what your wan connection types are.. So you have 2 different isps? Are they both dsl, both cable?

What devices are going to be in front of this super router your looking for?

What speeds do you have from your 2 different isps? Are you wanting to do load balancing?

You mention some examples like the USG100, seems a bit pricy - but supports 50 VPN Tunnels, etc. I don't think you need 50 vpn connections - do you?

As to your needs
UPnP - really, what are you doing that you NEED this? Do you even know what it is ;)
UTM - again do you even know what it is? You need IPS and DLP in a home setup?

You link to untangle - why don't you just run that? It will clearly do everything you have asked. Run it on whatever hardware you have around or buy some.

And I am confused why it needs to be gig? Do you have +100Mbps internet? You have a gig switch, so your gateway/router unless your internet is over 100mbit has no use of a gig connection.

#4 OP IncurableGeek

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:23

Hey SHoTTa35, you must have read my mind. "USG even though they say its a pain."  That's what I hear too but I'm too brave/stupid to be scared off by that.

 

Ah BudMan, you have such a kind and gentle way of telling me what an idiot you deem me to be (my self-deprecatory humor - please excuse)

 

1) Re: As to your needs
UPnP - really, what are you doing that you NEED this? Do you even know what it is ;)
UTM - again do you even know what it is? You need IPS and DLP in a home setup?

 

Simple answer: Why, yes I do. :wacko:

 

2) You need IPS and DLP in a home setup?  This is NOT a home setup. No interest in an entertainment center or online gaming. Business only, my friend.

 

3) You mention some examples like the USG100, seems a bit pricy.  Not "seems". Rather it's overkill stupid. Sorry I should not have included it as an option. Thanks for pointing that up! :)

 

 

Regarding my internet, I have Comcast Business Class with a huge modem from which I can pull 4 internet lines. Just by way of a mild rant, internet speeds in the US of A. SUCK. Even Google Fibre is half speed of the internet available in Japan, Korea, the Netherlands, et. al. Sorry, friends, but we are technically a very backward country. As a professor friend from Taiwan told me, "Dennis, you Americans have great technology in your laboratories. We have it in our daily life"!

 

...............

 

Additional info. Years ago I used to live on the forums. Right now I know pretty much everything I need to so I no longer lurk - Just the Linux forums and occasionally OCN where I have lots of nice friends. Networking, however, is to be honest rather new to me. Doesn't scare me into submission though.  (EDIT: Networking is emphatically not new to me. I was setting IP's, subnet mask, default gateways on pretty decent sized networks way back with NT 3.51 and then NT 4.0. That is Stupid Simple compared to what you guys discuss on this forum.)

 

When a fellow over at OCN asked me to clarify my needs, here's what I wrote:

 

Not trying to be cute but I don't really know what additional information you might require. Basically, I develop educational materials for publication in both hard-copy (traditional book, etc. materials) and eventually interactive video games and websites in English, Japanese, Chinese, Russian and Arabic. Although I can handle the English, Japanese and Chinese, I will need to hire native speakers in Russian, Arabic as well as sophisticated interactive website design.

Quite naturally then, I am seriously security conscious. I don't want 20 years of my work going out the back door, so to speak. From a hardware point of view I will of course need to disable USB, optical, etc. ports as well as control what any of my coworkers can email out. Also, I want to be able to control traffic flow in the LAN intranet via the Cisco SG300-10 10-port Gigabit Managed Switch.

In terms of firewalls, I want the ridiculous. I don't know how much you read on networking these days but I see a trend in more and more sophisticated firewalls so as to maintain as much privacy as possible. That for me is paramount. I want to know who the devil is trying to get into my network (network intrusion prevention and detection system).

Does that help any? redface.gif



#5 +BudMan

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:08

"This is NOT a home setup."

Ok - then this makes utterly no sense at all..

"3) UPNP – Universal Plug and Play"

What?? Dude I can tell you for DAMN sure that there is NO company that I have ever seen that allows for UPnP - NONE!! It is a HUGE GAPING CANYON of a security issue.. But then on the other hand you need a firewall to scare away the NSA? IPS and and DLP?

Dude lets get real, you could go to the computer store and close your eyes and spin around and point to one on the shelf and be fine from a security standpoint.

Are you serving up anything to the internet? Again lack of any mention of this.

So this is your internet
"Regarding my internet, I have Comcast Business Class with a huge modem from which I can pull 4 internet lines."

That is not dual ISPs that is 1 ISP with 4 lan ports on the gateway device they gave you.. If that is what you have - then you have NO need of dual anything from a wan point of view.

So it comes down to you need a router that can handel the ****ty internet speeds we have here in the US... Which again you have yet to tell use what that is for you.. Comcast business has multiple speed tiers.

plans.png

So even at their high end your still at 100 down.. So to be honest any normal 100mbit router is going to work.. If you went with gig on wan and lan then you might be able to see full 100, maybe even say 101 vs if you had 100mbps router you would see say 92 to 97mbps tops.

#6 dvb2000

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:16


2) Cisco Dual Gigabit WAN VPN Router (RV042G-NA)  http://www.amazon.co..._pr_product_top


fwiw, I have one of these, and 2x 100Mb/s cable connections feeding into the gigabit wan ports. MAX throughput is only a little over 100Mb/s, in other words, if you want to use it for load balancing, it's not up to the job if your 2x WAN links are anything over 50Mb/s each.


#7 OP IncurableGeek

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:33

"Comcast business has multiple speed tiers." 

 

Yes, indeed they do. Point of humor actually. Each one slower than the next. Please don't be offended by the Huffington Post "The U.S. now has the ninth-fastest average Internet connection speed in the world, behind South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Latvia, the Czech Republic and Sweden."  We're slower than Latvia and Eastern Europe. Cause to celebrate, eh?

 

Ever ask Comcast for fiber optic, which by the way is much cheaper to string than copper. Well, all you get is that tired old (heard that in the mid 90's) last mile argument with over $1K price tag. The Big Three ISP's are intentially throttling speeds so they can milk the customers for itty-bity incremental upgrades. Please don't defend it. Fight it.

 

""Regarding my internet, I have Comcast Business Class with a huge modem from which I can pull 4 internet lines."  I have the highest tier of Comcast Business Class, which I must repeat with a certain degree of disappointment, ain't quick at all.

That is not dual ISPs that is 1 ISP with 4 lan ports on the gateway device they gave you.. If that is what you have - then you have NO need of dual anything from a wan point of view.

 

Yes, I know, by definition, that I have at present a single ISP - BUT with 4 outs I can share the modem with different intranets.

 

"Dude lets get real, you could go to the computer store and close your eyes and spin around and point to one on the shelf and be fine from a security standpoint."   Emphatically NOT true. Please don't kinder me. :rolleyes:

 

Now, fellows, you can continue to portray me as the Village Idiot or you can be kind enough to tell me which of the two routers I suggested might be the best companion to my Cisco switch. If you folks don't know, kindly just say so, but enough of the posturing please. :)

 

.........................

 

Hey dvb2000, thanks for the constructive suggestion. Actually I was looking at that one as well. You like the GUI? 

 

"if you want to use it for load balancing, it's not up to the job if your 2x WAN links are anything over 50Mb/s each."  That may be a handicap down the line, when I use one of my servers to host a website - dunno. I tend to overbuy, because it tends to last longer. Not worried about a few bucks.

 

Actually I had a D-Link Gamer Lounge router for many years. Not bad, easy to program. Nowadays ethernet routers seem rather scarce, seeming to give away to wireless routers, which I will never ever trust with my info.



#8 Aheer.R.S.

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 03:45

Ok for someone who knows almost next to nothing about this subject, might I just throw in a couple of suggestions?

I noticed these

 

 

http://www.cisco.com...2262/index.html

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...ff13=80&ff14=95<-- this one's a UK result, you might need to search if you're not in the UK

 

http://www.play.com/...vc:c|adp:1o3|mt:<--- uk again, sorry

 

You mention you have a Cisco switch, is that a Bridge device? (for my understanding) if yes, it should be ok with these as it's wifi certified



#9 Mikee4fun

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:06

The RV042G is solid and works well for the small network you have. I have tested it using it with point to point gateway VPN's and cable/dsl dual wan and it works solid. As for firmware, Cisco does not update the firmware often on these SMB routers. As for UPnP, turn that off, there is no need for that in a business and let alone your home. You might as well unlock all your doors to your home and post a add on craigslist for people to come on in.



#10 OP IncurableGeek

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:12

"Ok for someone who knows amost next to nothing about this subject, might I just throw in a couple of suggestions?"

 

OK, enough of the put-downs. I came here quite humbly. True I don't know that much about sophisticated networks but in my life I have always been behind and trying to catch up. I taught myself 8 non-cognate languages, Japanese and Chinse being of native speaker fluency. Translated between French and Japanese; translated between Japanese and Indonesian. And did simultaneous interpretation in Japanese. Check up on that. There are barely a handful of people in the world who could simultaneosly translate a lecture on nuclear physics with no notes and no prepartaion. I also worked with approximately 15 PhD.'s at Caltech on various projects. Homie ain't no clown. What I don't know today I'll be teaching folks in a couple of weeks. Strong background on virtually every form of symbolic logic.

 

So kindly assume that I have a brain - a quite a scary one I've been told.  Put of or humbled by networking? Not a chance.

 

Regarding the suggestion http://www.cisco.com...2262/index.html, you may have noted that I included that as one of my favorites in my initial inquiry. If there is such a thing as "common sense", I would think it to be common sense to buy the Cisco RV042G in lieu of TP-LINK TL-ER5120 or the USG50 - due to possible compatibility issues? It would seem that Cisco would play better with Cisco than with others?



#11 Aheer.R.S.

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:21

"Ok for someone who knows amost next to nothing about this subject, might I just throw in a couple of suggestions?"

 

OK, enough of the put-downs. I came here quite humbly. True I don't know that much about sophisticated networks but in my life I have always been behind and trying to catch up. I taught myself 8 non-cognate languages, Japanese and Chinse being of native speaker fluency. Translated between French and Japanese; translated between Japanese and Indonesian. And did simultaneous interpretation in Japanese. Check up on that. There are barely a handful of people in the world who could simultaneosly translate a lecture on nuclear physics with no notes and no prepartaion. I also worked with approximately 15 PhD.'s at Caltech on various projects. Homie ain't no clown. What I don't know today I'll be teaching folks in a couple of weeks. Strong background on virtually every form of symbolic logic.

 

So kindly assume that I have a brain - a quite a scary one I've been told.  Put of or humbled by networking? Not a chance.

 

Regarding the suggestion http://www.cisco.com...2262/index.html, you may have noted that I included that as one of my favorites in my initial inquiry. If there is such a thing as "common sense", I would think it to be common sense to buy the Cisco RV042G in lieu of TP-LINK TL-ER5120 or the USG50 - due to possible compatibility issues? It would seem that Cisco would play better with Cisco than with others?

For the record, I was talking about myself, I know next to nothing about it

I am not as advanced in my knowledge as +BudMan, and I don't pretend otherwise, historically, I've always deferred to him and have checked his post history when I do have networking questions or problems.

As for the Cisco, I only suggested it as I'm using an E4200 for personal home use, and have connected a Netgear Bridge to it (hence why I asked if a switch was the same thing) and have never had any issues, my ps3 and blue ray player alone have access to my 5ghz connection and that's about all I know about the subject

 

And so far as you having a brain, you jumped on the assumption I was being patronising or condescending when I wasn't, I myself speak 3 languages fluently, and can translate between either with little to no trouble too.

my biggest failure is articulation, but that's another matter

I'll back out of this thread, as you clearly, in your superiority don't need my suggestions



#12 +BudMan

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 04:53

"- BUT with 4 outs I can share the modem with different intranets."

What?? What gateway device did comcast give you.. I highly doubt it does any sort of vlaning or your connection.

What exactly is your plan here with the 4 outs? How many public IPs do you have, why do you need more than 1 dynamic IP? Again are you serving up anything off, lets see here 20mbps up? The router you want to buy - make sure it has vlan support if that is what you want to do with your 5 computers? You going to put them all on their own network segment?

Nobody has called you the village idiot, and I don't mean to suggest anything of sort. But clearly there is bit of miscommunication going on.

You come in here asking about dual wan, gig routers - when you have a 100Mbps connection down tops with only 1 ISP. You think you need some buzz words like UTM, and IPS and DLP..

What is the device that comcast gave - to be honest your done.. Connect it to your switch.. What else do you think you need? Your behind a NAT, no inbound ports are allowed out of the box. Your not serving up anything?? Atleast not that you have mentioned as of yet.

So you can think you need some magic box that will scare off the NSA - when in reality your all ready do go with what you have.

You have not said one thing that suggest you need anything other than what you already have. Sorry, and that doesn't mean your an idiot - just means your unclear on what you need, and you have been bombarded with buzz words, etc.

#13 dvb2000

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 05:47


Hey dvb2000, thanks for the constructive suggestion. Actually I was looking at that one as well. You like the GUI?

 

the GUI is simple and clean, with lots of options, most of which you don't even need to look at. Yeah the GUI is nice.



#14 sc302

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:08

You can get a nice asa firewall to do what you want. You can get a baracuda link balancer to do what you want but it is for multiple isps. With a single isp you should consider 1 link to the modem and 2,3, whatever to different lans. This will allow each to use the internet and not allow each to see each other.

#15 +BudMan

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 12:47

His managed switch he already has does that I am sure. He was saying that the 400 for the usg100 was high, and now you want to suggest an asa - what model a 5505 is going to be 250-300.

He really has no need for such a device..

Also, thought UPnP was one of his requirements - you know with how secure he needs his network to be, he wants software to just be able to open up any port it wants without any ok from anyone, etc. ;)

So - unless something has changed
http://www.cisco.com...0805b87d8.shtml
PIX/ASA Security Appliance FAQ

Q. Does ASA support Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) feature?

A. No, ASA does not support Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) feature as of now.

Why would a highend firewall support such a feature? I asked this before, no business allows such a thing ;)

So lets say this router he buys does support UPnP, his gateway device from comcast would need to be in Bridge mode - ie just modem for that to work. But he wants to leverage the 4 lan ports

"with 4 outs I can share the modem with different intranets."

How is that going to work in bridge mode? Does he have multiple IPs from comcast? He hasn't given us those details other than bitching at how slow 100mbps is.

I really want to help the guy, but not one thing has been mentioned that suggest spending money on any sort of other router.. Why?