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#1 TheExperiment

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 21:21

...because we've talked about it enough in other threads

 

http://www.geeks3d.c...alls-per-frame/

 

The image code isn't working for me ATM so here's some choice bits

 

According to AMD, it will be possible to have up to 100K render calls per frames with Mantle, while today, optimized render codes achieve only 10k draw calls/frame.

 

Another interesting fact is that Mantle is not limited to AMD Radeon GCN architecture. The core of Mantle could be ported to other GPUs (NVIDIA for example, some NVIDIA GPU designers were present at the AMD Mantle talk #APU13).




#2 +Brando212

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 21:25

cool beans

 

should be interesting to see what comes of this



#3 Yusuf M.

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 00:59

100K draw calls per frame vs. 10K. Damn. DICE needs to hurry up with the Mantle update for Battlefield 4.



#4 Andre S.

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:32

If NVIDIA picks this up, which I'm hoping they will, this might become a serious competitor for Direct3D. Mantle on PC + SteamOS and a similar API on PS4, would make it the best API to optimize for in AAA titles. 



#5 +Boo Berry

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:52

AMD could leverage Mantle in exchange for G-Sync licensing. Everyone wins in that case. Can you imagine Mantle + G-Sync?



#6 The_Decryptor

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:55

Yay for proprietary APIs and marketing nonsense! Nvidia have their own low level API but they don't market it as the be all and end all for performance issues in game engines.
 

100K draw calls per frame vs. 10K. Damn. DICE needs to hurry up with the Mantle update for Battlefield 4.


Considering Nvidia was seeing 40-50k calls a second back around 2004, I think that's pretty much just marketing talk.

Edit: The only company talking about how well consoles perform to PCs (That should be the first flag) is AMD, and AMDs solution is an API that only works for their hardware, so...

#7 Athernar

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:59

Yay for proprietary APIs and marketing nonsense! Nvidia have their own low level API but they don't market it as the be all and end all for performance issues in game engines.
 

Considering Nvidia was seeing 40-50k calls a second back around 2004, I think that's pretty much just marketing talk.

Edit: The only company talking about how well consoles perform to PCs (That should be the first flag) is AMD, and AMDs solution is an API that only works for their hardware, so...

 

CUDA.



#8 +Boo Berry

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:01

NVAPI.

 

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#9 OP TheExperiment

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:27

Yay for proprietary APIs and marketing nonsense! Nvidia have their own low level API but they don't market it as the be all and end all for performance issues in game engines.
 
Considering Nvidia was seeing 40-50k calls a second back around 2004, I think that's pretty much just marketing talk.

Edit: The only company talking about how well consoles perform to PCs (That should be the first flag) is AMD, and AMDs solution is an API that only works for their hardware, so...

Weren't we still using fixed transform and lighting back then?  Not too hard to be fast when you're not really doing anything.

 

As NVIDIA is very likely to be adding support I'm not really sure why you're so down on it.



#10 psionicinversion

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:31

we'll have to se how it goes tbh



#11 OP TheExperiment

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:07

EA and other developers on the topic

http://techreport.co...-vendor-support

The Mantle version of Battlefield 4 is on track to be released as an update in late December. Andersson said creating a Mantle version of the Frostbite 3 engine took about two months of work. The Mantle release's core renderer is closer to the PlayStation 4 version than to the existing DirectX 11 one, and it includes both CPU and GPU optimizations. Andersson didn't bring up performance estimates, but other developers who discussed Mantle at APU13 did. Jorjen Katsman of Nixxes, the firm porting Thief to the PC, mentioned a reduction in API overhead from 40% with DirectX 11 to around 8% with Mantle. He added that it's "not unrealistic that you'd get 20% additional GPU performance" with Mantle.



#12 TyRidian

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:25

I'm curious how well this will work for their entry level graphics cards R7 240 and R7 250, both in which offer Mantle out of the box.

 

Some people say that the R7 250 in particular is a downgrade in comparison to the HD 7700 series cards, but wouldn't Mantle change this, even with the lower specs that the R7 250 has?



#13 Slammers

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:47

I'm curious how well this will work for their entry level graphics cards R7 240 and R7 250, both in which offer Mantle out of the box.

 

Some people say that the R7 250 in particular is a downgrade in comparison to the HD 7700 series cards, but wouldn't Mantle change this, even with the lower specs that the R7 250 has?

 

Id say certain areas of the low end cards would bottleneck mantle in this case.



#14 TyRidian

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:48

Id say certain areas of the low end cards would bottleneck mantle in this case.

Kind of defeats the purpose of offering Mantle then, especially if they advertise the cards as supporting it.



#15 OP TheExperiment

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:57

Kind of defeats the purpose of offering Mantle then, especially if they advertise the cards as supporting it.

I'm sure it'd help them, but they're still going to be pretty weaksauce.