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I want to expand my RAM capacity

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#16 +snaphat (Myles Landwehr)

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:41

I have a SSD... the lag came I tried openings videos flies that were really large while already running at 70% of RAM.. and my video card is poor ..460,,
I would like to have three browsers..20 tabs in each... and 20 PDFs... also while doing my regular browsing... as you guys should know nyt etc all have limitation on free articles.. therefore you want to keep these windows/tabs open..

I feel like IE with adblock is a huge RAM drainer tho..

 

Today I took a break from my studies -- went to lay down and came back to be PC restarted so it probably even crashed on the huge load..

 

 

You are being inconsistent in what you say your RAM usage is  :huh: 70% or 70%+large video files? SSD wise, I'd find it even harder to believe that you are experience noticeable paging thrashing if you have a page file now (sure possible, but I don't think it is likely). Fortunately, there are two really easy ways to see if this is from the RAM: (1) disable you page file and see if the issue resolves, (2) Look at the hard fault rates. Those are pretty much guaranteed to rule it in or out.




#17 OP sammy2

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:46

You are being inconsistent in what you say your RAM usage is  :huh: 70% or 70%+large video files? SSD wise, I'd find it even harder to believe that you are experience noticeable paging thrashing if you have a page file now (sure possible, but I don't think it is likely). Fortunately, there are two really easy ways to see if this is from the RAM: (1) disable you page file and see if the issue resolves, (2) Look at the hard fault rates. Those are pretty much guaranteed to rule it in or out.

 

I have the videos files/Music files on a HDD...

 

70% caused the lag yesterday.. i'm currently trying to stress this the system but it's doing better... even tho i'm currently at 84% .. I don't know if it's because yesterday the computer was already running for two days... 



#18 Praetor

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:50

200 tabs :woot:

i only have 50 at a time and even i think it's too much. then again..could have more :D

 

you can see how much memory each tab uses in chrome, too see where's the bottleneck.



#19 Marshall

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:54

Off-topic: I'm curious to see what it looks like with 200 tabs open, can you take a screenshot?

 

On topic: Why don't you give FF a try, it's usually low on system resources as long as you don't have a ton of extensions?



#20 OP sammy2

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:01

This is what i'm talking about ... 

 

86% and error message.. IE seems to be the main culprit 

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#21 +snaphat (Myles Landwehr)

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:06

Yeah it's running better today... Yesterday I had a bunch of lag.. browser tabs shutting down due to memory problem - I even got the warning..but it's above 85% and okay at the moment.. 

 

Are you saying you 

 

Well admittedly I feel as though my knowledge of the details of memory management could be perhaps be improved to some degree, but I do feel that I have a decent grasp of the fundamentals, and I do of course absolutely agree that sluggishness relating to memory management would be a result of thrashing not simply utilisation. Now perhaps with your particular example system with 77% RAM utilisation you're experiencing very little trashing, but that doesn't mean the OP isn't; I do not believe that high frequency thrashing only occurs near 100% RAM utilisation, I believe (and perhaps I need to do more research into this) that Windows pre-emptively moves pages into the page file, keeping some RAM free allowing for quicker response to spikes in demand, and that the higher the utilisation, the more likely and frequently that thrashing could be occurring. Thus I feel it is entirely feasible that you could see a system with only 70% utilisation (which I consider fairly high) and yet with a large (relatively) amount of thrashing. For example, a user may have a browser with a large number of tabs open, and only 70% RAM utilisation, as here, and see thrashing because firstly, Windows is keeping the remaining 30% open in order to allow other applications to be opened quicker (as a measure to try and provide a better user experience), and secondly, the browser may be causing pages to be moved back and forth between RAM and the page files as tabs do stuff such as load new content via AJAX or continue buffering video, or simply as the user switches between tabs in the interface. That's just my speculation though. If I'm right, adding more RAM could result in Windows allowing a larger proportion of the browser's pages to remain in RAM, thus reducing thrashing and thus reducing lag. I do have a PC here used by other members of my family, which previously had only 2GB of RAM; this was never maxed out but utilisation was quite high. Increasing this to 4GB resulted in a definite improvement in performance, which I feel supports my hypothesis.

 

Of course I'm not stating out right that thrashing is absolutely the issue here, I may be wrong; we know nothing about page file utilisation and fault frequency on the OP's system itself to say such a thing and there could be other causes. The OP states that lag is noticeable at 70% RAM utilisation and the implication is that this is a result of an increase in the number of tabs, not other applications that are then consuming significant resources. Perhaps the additional tabs result in an increase in CPU cycle consumption by the browser; perhaps as you suggested there's an increase in HDD activity related to caching; both sound reasonable to me. Perhaps it's a combination. However my gut feeling, based on the fact that the OP has a recent Haswell based MB, and likely a decently fast enough CPU to go with it, and that the lag occurs at high memory utilisation, is that increasing the amount of RAM is going to result in an improvement. Regardless, I feel that the OP could benefit from the extra headroom.

 

With that said though, perhaps checking disk activity might be a good idea to be certain. I still feel that more RAM to give more headroom would be good, but of course if disk activity is high, whether from frequent page faults or caching, an SSD is going to be the best solution if the OP doesn't have one.

 

Edit: backing up I've noticed that the OP has actually stated how much RAM they have (presuming the link is the actual item, not just the same model with a different capacity), I was assuming the OP had something like 4GB. So you have 8GB. That's actually a pretty decent amount. What browser are you using. I ask this because on my previous system (which I replaced a few months back) I had 6GB of RAM and shortly prior to replacing it I was doing some research with a ton of tabs open in both Firefox and Chrome, and a few times maxed out both my RAM and page file resulting in Windows issuing memory errors. Chrome was the culprit, consuming a huge amount of RAM across it's large number of individual processes. If you're using Chrome, you may find that using Firefox instead will reduce your RAM consumption enough to negate any need for purchasing hardware. (Disclaimer, I'm a fan of both browsers, I'm not acting as a fanboy here).

 

The 8GB RAM thing is what initially made me skeptical. I would be totally willing to agree with you otherwise about the RAM thrashing and things. Now, he states he has an SSD, has upped the RAM usage to 85%, claims he uses three browsers open at the same time, and is opening huge movie files. At this point, I am just assuming the OP wants more RAM and is just saying whatever to justify it. That's fine by me given that I was just trying to get the OP to check if this was the issue or not. I've already told him how to verify whether it is so I don't really have much more input all points considered -- other than eye brow raising faces  :laugh:

 

On a side note, I do believe that Windows preemptively drops pages into the paging file also. I don't believe it is necessarily removes the original copies though _unless_ they actually need to be evicted. The idea would be to keep the copy in memory until you are forced to evict it for other data. Remember this is a least-recently-used policy, so the things you evict shouldn't be recently used -- so it stands to reason that you could do this without too much trouble. Windows has some list for "cached" memory that may account for this. I haven't looked at it in fine enough detail to conclude exactly what it is though. 



#22 +snaphat (Myles Landwehr)

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:08

This is what i'm talking about ... 

 

86% and error message.. IE seems to be the main culprit 

 

Yeah it is trying to use something that requires more RAM than you have total evidently. Do you even have a paging file enabled? Sounds like no since it normally would tell you it is expanding your paging file...

 

EDIT: your disc I/O looks super low also in that picture. Basically you ran out of memory and the system is grinding to halt from what it looks like. In my experience that is what happens if you don't have a paging file and run out of memory...



#23 OP sammy2

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:10

Yeah it is trying to use something that requires more RAM than you have total evidently. Do you even have a paging file enabled? Sounds like no since it normally would tell you it is expanding your paging file...

yup it's enabled on the SSD - 500 -2000MB



#24 +snaphat (Myles Landwehr)

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:35

yup it's enabled on the SSD - 500 -2000MB

 

Oh that makes sense after all. Your paging file is also completely used up and isn't set to expand beyond that point. The system isn't thrashing, it is just killing things because it can't do anything else. Instead of getting 8 more GB, you should probably just pay for however much your board supports (32GB or 64GB). You have after all are going to hit the maximum regardless since you evidently just leave everything open and never close anything. This has officially become absurd. I'm honestly not even sure if you are being serious at this point or if you just didn't just open 500 thousand tabs take that screen shot. I'm probably not the only one...



#25 T3X4S

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:37

I am going to stop telling people what I always tell them about RAM usage and modern necessities.  I always tell people, "unless you use VMs, Photoshop, media editing - you will never use more than 4GB, for most people 8GB is more than enough.."  OP has me confused. 

How in the world can someone "use" 200 tabs ?  More than 20 and they dont even show up, just pile up.  200 tabs ?  why ?  Does the OP simply never close them after using them ?

Anyway, its not my place to question another person's usage - it just seems like something can be done better before adding RAM.  FWIW



#26 Praetor

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:37

2GB of pagefile on a system with 8GB of RAM? wtf?

upper your page file or at least let windows manage it.



#27 +snaphat (Myles Landwehr)

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 07:44

2GB of pagefile on a system with 8GB of RAM? wtf?

upper your page file or at least let windows manage it.

 

His paging file is just going to continuously get larger and larger then based on what he is showing us though. I guess that doesn't really matter if it isn't thrashing though (assuming he probably never goes back to the already open things all that much)?



#28 OP sammy2

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 08:05

Everyone I opened this many tabs to replicate the ram usage of 70% I had yesterday when I also ran out of memory and got the warning.  

I usually use around 60 in three different browsers. . 

Plus open pdfs.. research papers/journals with 30 pages etc even government reports with 600 at times.

This is why my ram usage gets so high.  I'll look into expanding the page file but I only have 30gb left and honestly in no time it reaches 10gb etc ... But I can use my HHD for paging. 



#29 OP sammy2

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 08:08

Also when I am doing research I open pdfs in the browser. .. 

 

Then I take breaks etc and do my normal browsing without closing the articles I began reading. . 

I watch videos. .facebook.. Read a bunch of other crap etc 



#30 GotBored

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 08:15

This is what i'm talking about ... 

 

86% and error message.. IE seems to be the main culprit 

 

Increase your RAM, it will solve this issue.

 

Other ways to help with this issue which wont cost you are:

 

Restart your computer every now and then which will clear some cached memory.

Use less resource intensive (smaller footprint) programs; Instead of Windows Media Player use MPC-HC for video, or winamp lite for music. Instead of using IE and Chrome just use Chrome (Keep adblock but also disable flash in chrome if you don't need to have it). etc.

Save open pdf's in browser to your computer so you can close the tab but still read it later.

Maybe even get Pocket (http://getpocket.com/) so you can save articles to it and read them later rather than keep them open.