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#16 Kreuger

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 13:53

i know you are good at math, fragmentation is a factor of products (X) Operating Systems (X) Screen resolution. When looking at andriod vs IOS, its a huge difference. Even with my nexus devices (4 and a 7 tablet) there are some apps the new kit kat just wont be able to download since the app is "not built for this version of operating system". And that started even with 4.3. On my iphone and ipad, i have not seen a single issue of this.

I don't have KitKat yet but I've been using Android since Gingerbread and I have never seen this before.




#17 +Frank B.

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 13:57

i know you are good at math, fragmentation is a factor of products (X) Operating Systems (X) Screen resolution. When looking at andriod vs IOS, its a huge difference. Even with my nexus devices (4 and a 7 tablet) there are some apps the new kit kat just wont be able to download since the app is "not built for this version of operating system". And that started even with 4.3. On my iphone and ipad, i have not seen a single issue of this.

Care to give us examples of apps exhibiting this problem? I have yet to see an app incompatible because it's 'not built for this version of Android'.



#18 Geoffrey B.

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 14:22

not wanting to fuel a flame war or aggrivate people. There is a sad simple truth when it comes to Android Fragmentation. It is NOT Google's fault. It is the manufacturers. Google by contract requires hardware manufacturers to support their devices with the latest versions of android for a certain amount of time. But Manufacturers would rather crank out a new device to keep making money rather than support their device for that time period. So they just pay the penalty to Google and keep on making newer devices.

 

Also whatever alterations the OEM makes to android will also effect how the performance of the device is. So you end up with Samsung and Motorola making a device with nearly the same specifications however, one will run better than the other on the same version of android because one of them will bloat it up with all sorts of garbage that Google did not intend for.



#19 Javik

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 14:31

People here blather on about Android fragmentation as if it's some killer issue when it really isn't. By definition when you have to update drivers and software there's going to be a lag between RTW and customer updates but in general terms the API differences between Android 4.1 and 4.4 aren't that massive so as long as you're at least on 4.1 you're reasonably current, and even old single core devices like the Galaxy S are capable of running 4.1 reasonably well.

 

Not like Microsoft ever solved the issue either, in fact their decision to drop WP7 was even worse for customers, I know some people with old Android 2.3.3 phones and they will still run *most* modern apps. Fragmentation on Android is basically just a meaningless buzzphrase used by this forum's resident anti Google trumpeters, in real world terms it's not a big problem.



#20 adrynalyne

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 14:32

I don't have KitKat yet but I've been using Android since Gingerbread and I have never seen this before.

It is an issue, but a very small one.

 

For instance, Gingerbread cannot run 4.0+ designed apps unless backwards compatibility is written in.

 

Dashclock, for example, requires 4.2+ on the device.  That means while my Note 3 can run it, my Note 2 cannot.



#21 Skiver

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 14:40

I'm sorry, am I reading something that says Andoid has an issue because newer app's won't work on older versions of it's OS?

Is that like complaining that my Office 2013 won't install on Win XP? or is it that applications I ran in XP that havent been updated to Win 8 don't work properly?

I am sorry but at some point older app's either have to be updated to support newer OS's and newer app's have to drop support for older versions, this isn't anything new.



#22 rippleman

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 14:44

I don't have KitKat yet but I've been using Android since Gingerbread and I have never seen this before.

a major app for me is a hugely popular classifieds site up here in canada owned by Ebay called "Kijiji", there are many others that i come across, would have to look up their names though.

 

Care to give us examples of apps exhibiting this problem? I have yet to see an app incompatible because it's 'not built for this version of Android'.

a major app for me is a hugely popular classifieds site up here in canada owned by Ebay called "Kijiji", there are many others that i come across, would have to look up their names though.



#23 rippleman

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 14:45

I'm sorry, am I reading something that says Andoid has an issue because newer app's won't work on older versions of it's OS?

Is that like complaining that my Office 2013 won't install on Win XP? or is it that applications I ran in XP that havent been updated to Win 8 don't work properly?

I am sorry but at some point older app's either have to be updated to support newer OS's and newer app's have to drop support for older versions, this isn't anything new.

a couple things are reversed, older apps not working on the newer versions of the OS



#24 rippleman

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 14:49

I have had 5 different android devices over the last 2.5 or so years.  Various resolutions, sizes, versions, aspects.  Never once experienced any issues.

 

Let me expand that: I have setup over 30 different devices of various resolutions, sizes, versions, aspects.  Never once experienced any issues.

 

I make no claim that fragmentation doesn't exist.  What I do state as fact is that it has never negatively impacted me or anyone I know using android.

it doesn't affect me either for the apps i do find conflicting since you can just install from the .apk file, but it just shows you the more various versions you have the higher the probability for potential problems.



#25 FloatingFatMan

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 15:22

i know you are good at math, fragmentation is a factor of products (X) Operating Systems (X) Screen resolution. When looking at andriod vs IOS, its a huge difference. Even with my nexus devices (4 and a 7 tablet) there are some apps the new kit kat just wont be able to download since the app is "not built for this version of operating system". And that started even with 4.3. On my iphone and ipad, i have not seen a single issue of this.

 

I was speaking specifically of the post of Zolphi3ls you replied to. This one:

 


Compared to iOS Android is barely fragmented, and Google doesn't release crippled versions of Android for older devices or remove features just to claim all devices are running the same version

 

You essentially claimed that was false, but didn't back it up.  Can you?  Because what he said IS a fact, when Apple release newer OS's on older devices, they have features removed, and usually cripple said older device in one way or another, like making it unusably slow.



#26 Skiver

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 15:26

a couple things are reversed, older apps not working on the newer versions of the OS

Ok, but surely that is the same as someone creating an application/program on win XP and that then not working on Win 8? Stuff changes in the OS, if the dev doesnt keep up with said changes then stuff will break.

 

As someone else came out, this has nothing to do with Android/Google but more down to the developers themselves coding the app. I work for a software company, I know first hand that when Microsoft releases a new OS that we have to go through testing to ensure stuff doesnt break so for a while (and sometimes for too long) we say we can't support and OS. Whats the alternative? releasing the software and have so many people complain when it doesn't work and ruin our reputation?



#27 Astra.Xtreme

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 15:49

Care to give us examples of apps exhibiting this problem? I have yet to see an app incompatible because it's 'not built for this version of Android'.

I have a few games on my Nexus 7 that either won't load anymore or are really laggy.  I didn't have these issues before updating to Kitkat, so this is simply the faults of the developers for not updating their apps.

 

The problem is that since a small audience gets the new updates, developers aren't really in any hurry to release necessary fixes.  That's the true problem of fragmentation.  iOS has these same issues when the new version comes out every year, but developers are really quick to release updates before issues hit the masses.  Imo, that's why the user experience is far superior on iOS.



#28 rippleman

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 15:51

Ok, but surely that is the same as someone creating an application/program on win XP and that then not working on Win 8? Stuff changes in the OS, if the dev doesnt keep up with said changes then stuff will break.

 

As someone else came out, this has nothing to do with Android/Google but more down to the developers themselves coding the app. I work for a software company, I know first hand that when Microsoft releases a new OS that we have to go through testing to ensure stuff doesnt break so for a while (and sometimes for too long) we say we can't support and OS. Whats the alternative? releasing the software and have so many people complain when it doesn't work and ruin our reputation?

i know its not googles fault. I was mearly piont out the end possible result with many versions for devolopers to account for. Problems like this can't but not happen.

 

I was speaking specifically of the post of Zolphi3ls you replied to. This one:

 

 

 

You essentially claimed that was false, but didn't back it up.  Can you?  Because what he said IS a fact, when Apple release newer OS's on older devices, they have features removed, and usually cripple said older device in one way or another, like making it unusably slow.

facts only for the people who hate apple which wouldn't be facts at all and only slanted opinions. I have seen no speed difference in many 3gs models going from IOS 4 to 5 to the latest 6. Also, I have seen no speed difference in iphones 4's, 4s's, 5's going from version 5 up to IOS 7... when he stated "cripple" that means something is not operating as intended. If a 3 gs (or even a 4) doesn't have Siri, then it isn't exactly "crippled" if Siri is left out of the update when going to  a newer OS since it didn't have it to begin with. A minus is only a minus if something is taken away.



#29 adrynalyne

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 16:02

it doesn't affect me either for the apps i do find conflicting since you can just install from the .apk file, but it just shows you the more various versions you have the higher the probability for potential problems.

In that case, you need to blame the developer, not Android fragmentation.  The developer has power in whether something shows compatible on the market.

 

It is one thing if it doesn't work, and quite another if the developer has decided that they only want to support certain versions.



#30 rippleman

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 16:04

In that case, you need to blame the developer, not Android fragmentation.  The developer has power in whether something shows compatible on the market.

 

It is one thing if it doesn't work, and quite another if the developer has decided that they only want to support certain versions.

actually i 100% agree, but having said that, it is STILL the very definition of fragmentation... less versions = less possible conflicts = less worry from "does it work?" from devolpers





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