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Snake89

SteamOS offically released

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Developers will go where the money is and if Valve is putting its full weight behind Linux then that's where they'll go.

Just because they have a version of Steam for Linux doesn't automagically mean that third party developers are guaranteed to decide to put the resources into porting for it.. as you say, the developers go where the money is, and at this time anyway, that 1-2% market share isn't doing them any favors. Steam being available hasn't made a dent in that, and going up against "traditional" PC's and consoles isn't going to help any. Keep in mind, Valve actually makes very few games. Not saying it won't happen, but there's a huge uphill battle for them.

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I can't believe that even while basing their "OS" on basic Debian they can't to what every other home cooker can do, make a regular installable OS, and on top of that it requires UEFI... The OS that's supposed to let you build your own steam boxes or use existing computers to stream from a powerful gaming computer somewhere else...

Quality... I've seen 12 year old home cookers do better. Heck the guy making his fantasy Linux distro on this forum before he got predictably tired of it did better.

Hey man, don't make fun of SHIFT Linux!! Unless you actually know what sort of community participation went on, don't hate. SHIFT had a nice wallpaper, and icons/blue theme and I was proud the community I belonged to had an official distro!  :martini: 

 

Also this is an early release meant for avid users/testers, so no one is denying a bug free / smooth experience. Refinement needs to happen on a mega scale

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It's for experienced users, making a simplified installer unimportant for the beta. I'm sure things will change for when it's released.

Developers will go where the money is and if Valve is putting its full weight behind Linux then that's where they'll go. This is a long term commitment by Valve and a slightly unpolished initial release won't make any difference in the long run. Don't forget that Steam was pretty terrible when it first launched and it's now the definitive digital distribution platform.

I just don't see any merit in your claims.

It doesn't matter if it's for experience users, their whole setup at this point is stupid and pointless, the installer is already there and included, it's more work for them to release it like this than with a proper non customized installer.

Valve can put all the weight they want behind Linux, doesn't matter, they have virtually no weight to put there, all the weight is with the developers, and they go where the users are, which isn't there, and when valve puts out a shoddy first version like this to show off. All they're showing is that Linux isn't ready for a full commitment, that's what the developers see, they see an OS not ready for the mainstream, and they pay attention.

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Hey man, don't make fun of SHIFT Linux!! Unless you actually know what sort of community participation went on, don't hate. SHIFT had a nice wallpaper, and icons/blue theme and I was proud the community I belonged to had an official distro!  :martini: 

 

Also this is an early release meant for avid users/testers, so no one is denying a bug free / smooth experience. Refinement needs to happen on a mega scale

I wasn't referring to shift, I was referring to the other private project someone did, it was a lot further along than shift ever got and looked a lot better to ;)

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Yeah, if you already run Steam on your pc, this isn't anything new or amazing, just a different way of doing the same thing.

I don't think that's the point of SteamOS.

They are not making this to replace a desktop OS but as a gaming os. Right now there's close to no app and/or game but it's in beta. If it becomes popular companies will release games and apps for it. I don't know about Steam OS but in big picture mode you can access your apps bought on Steam. I suppose it will be the same with Steam OS. So i think that technically a company could release a media player app for Steam OS and you could use this app to watch movie on an htpc using Steam OS. I could be wrong tough. If you can run apps on it i think it has a lot of potential as an htpc/gaming os.

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Athernar - the jury is merely at the start of deliberations;  SteamOS could STILL fail.  There are so many trip-over points (compared merely to other Linux distributions, let alone consoles and Windows), it's definitely far from funny.  However, Valve and the SteamOS community has to recognize those trip-over points - and clear them.

 

The deliberations thus far are little more than the statement "this unfinished project is unfinished". It's stating the obvious.

 

This release is heavily tied to the hardware prototypes, it's not for evaluation and it's not for mucking around with in a VM. SteamOS will reach that point in time, but that time is not now.

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The deliberations thus far are little more than the statement "this unfinished project is unfinished". It's stating the obvious.

 

This release is heavily tied to the hardware prototypes, it's not for evaluation and it's not for mucking around with in a VM. SteamOS will reach that point in time, but that time is not now.

Actually, if  you want to look at the non-gaming side of SteamOS (multimedia usage, desktop application usage, etc.) VM-based testing lets you do exactly that - even, if not especially, if your hardware is not at a stage where bare-metal all-round testing can be done.

 

Doing testing of SteamOS strictly as a game console core is also rather pointless - XB360 and PS3 (or even the original Xbox and PS2) can do that much - with even the last having more game support than SteamOS does right now.  SteamOS (and the SteamMachines) have to be at east as capable as the last of what I have pointed out - even that is below what existing HTPCs (even with Deb ian or any other non-Valve Linux DE) can do.

 

That means going into the desktop mode, switching in and out of BPM from the desktop - in short, using it as more than just a gaming OS/DE.

 

If you are going to even THINK of building SteamMachines, you have to see if the DE is suitable for the purpose.

 

It's doable, if you can follow instructions.

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Actually, if  you want to look at the non-gaming side of SteamOS (multimedia usage, desktop application usage, etc.) VM-based testing lets you do exactly that - even, if not especially, if your hardware is not at a stage where bare-metal all-round testing can be done..

 

That's not the focus of this release, media functionality is largely non-existant right now since the focus is on gaming and the platform.

 

Doing testing of SteamOS strictly as a game console core is also rather pointless - XB360 and PS3 (or even the original Xbox and PS2) can do that much - with even the last having more game support than SteamOS does right now.  SteamOS (and the SteamMachines) have to be at east as capable as the last of what I have pointed out - even that is below what existing HTPCs (even with Deb ian or any other non-Valve Linux DE) can do.
 
This doesn't even make any sense. You basically seem to be saying something that amounts to "There is no need to test the performance of Windows, because Android is fast". ???

 

If you are going to even THINK of building SteamMachines, you have to see if the DE is suitable for the purpose.

 

Right, and I fully agree with such a sentiment of evaluating a product/project before making expensive decisions regading them.

 

But we come back to my original point, SteamOS is not anywhere near the stage where it should be being evaluated for such purposes. That's not the intent/purpose of the release right now.

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Valve can put all the weight they want behind Linux, doesn't matter, they have virtually no weight to put there, all the weight is with the developers, and they go where the users are, which isn't there

Steam has more than 65 million active users, with up to 7 million concurrent users. Developers now actively base their strategy around Steam and a large number of games use the very success Steamworks platform. Valve has a lot of influence in the industry. If you want to pretend otherwise feel free but I don't think it's a credible position.

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Steam has more than 65 million active users, with up to 7 million concurrent users. Developers now actively base their strategy around Steam and a large number of games use the very success Steamworks platform.

Nobody's arguing how many users there are on the platform. Look at their own hardware survey page and look at the numbers. Look at Steam's catalog site and pull up how many games are available on each platform. How many people are going to throw away compatibility will the majority of their software, completely pretending that gaming is the only thing that a person does, never mind taking into account all the games that aren't gotten through Steam to begin with, which is quite a lot? Has nothing to do with fanboyism or trolling.... easy choice, major compromise... or pick the platform that runs everything right now, zero fuss? Where's the incentive?
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Why google? some of you guys really need to get a grip lol

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Steam has more than 65 million active users, with up to 7 million concurrent users. Developers now actively base their strategy around Steam and a large number of games use the very success Steamworks platform. Valve has a lot of influence in the industry. If you want to pretend otherwise feel free but I don't think it's a credible position.

And those users are not on Linux and definitely not on SteamOS, so what was your point ?

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And those users are not on Linux and definitely not on SteamOS, so what was your point ?

 

Well i am so that blows your theory out the water straight away!

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Well i am so that blows your theory out the water straight away!

And you and your handful make up how much of a sub percentage...

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And those users are not on Linux and definitely not on SteamOS, so what was your point ?

 

 

this is all you said, not a sub percentage or a small group u said those users, which was aimed at the post saying about the concurrent users

 

all i have seen here is people bitching about how crap it is, how shoddy it is, its an open license feel free to make some changes, help them test it etc etc

Edited by Andrew G.

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this is all you said, not a sub percentage or a small group u said those users, which was aimed at the post saying about the concurrent users

Game, Set, Match

all i have seen here is people bitching about how crap it is, how shoddy it is, its an open license feel free to make some changes, help them test it etc etc

Sometimes a number is so small it's considered zero. That's what Linux users on steam are. For triple A developers you're not even worth having a meeting to consider a Linux build, it's wasted money and time.

Hence no one.

And why should I help them, the OS is there for me, to help me do what I want, to do what I need. I want to use my OS, not make it or tweak it or crap like that. I want a finished OS. And the point is the stuff they have dropped is stuff that doesn't make sense to drop. Since it required MORE work of them to drop a real installer than to release the crap they did.

Edited by Andrew G.
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I tried it out and I have to say... it is quite well done. I am glad they decided to base it off of Debian and not Ubuntu. There should be less hiccups and concerns this way. It should remain very stable. The future of gaming in Linux looks great. There are new Linux titles added to Steam each week. Yes, mostly indie titles. Still though, the bigger companies will jump on the bandwagon soon enough. The Big Picture UI could use a bit more polish, but that is just nitpicking.

 

Keep up the great work, Valve. (Y)

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Just because a number is so small does not write it off

 

There is obviously a want for a linux based console or they would not be doing it

 

They are not actively seeking to lose money.

 

Its been released as a beta, if you want/need a fully polished off finished article don't use it

 

IS it really that simple? i believe so

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Nobody's arguing how many users there are on the platform. Look at their own hardware survey page and look at the numbers. Look at Steam's catalog site and pull up how many games are available on each platform. How many people are going to throw away compatibility will the majority of their software, completely pretending that gaming is the only thing that a person does, never mind taking into account all the games that aren't gotten through Steam to begin with, which is quite a lot?

It's not about throwing away your existing system but about augmenting it. The idea is that you can add a second box in your front room and either play games natively or stream them from your primary system. Eventually it will be able to compete with consoles directly when developers start releasing games with Linux support at launch. A lot of people like the convenience of consoles but aren't happy with the trade-offs (low framerates, sub-1080p resolutions, lower image quality, etc) - Steam Machines offer an alternative.

 

And those users are not on Linux and definitely not on SteamOS, so what was your point ?

There's no need for such a tart response. The point is that Steam has a lot of momentum behind it and is expanding its audience. Valve is putting a lot of resources behind making SteamOS / Steam Machines successful and it's a strategy that will take time. It's not something that will happen overnight and no-one is pretending it will.

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I don't think that's the point of SteamOS.

They are not making this to replace a desktop OS but as a gaming os. Right now there's close to no app and/or game but it's in beta. If it becomes popular companies will release games and apps for it. I don't know about Steam OS but in big picture mode you can access your apps bought on Steam. I suppose it will be the same with Steam OS. So i think that technically a company could release a media player app for Steam OS and you could use this app to watch movie on an htpc using Steam OS. I could be wrong tough. If you can run apps on it i think it has a lot of potential as an htpc/gaming os.

SteamOS will most definitely be running non gaming apps. Not only did Valve confirm this a while back, they have made moves for Steam to start hosting non-media apps too. that could easily move over to SteamOS as well.

SteamOS is just a Linux build that boots straight into Steam Big Picture mode. So anything Steam can do on Windows, it should be doing on SteamOS.

I definitely see it as possible htpc/gaming os. My point is that right now it does not take the place of my gaming pc. It doesn't matter if its a gaming os or not. If its going to replace my gaming pc, then it will need to demonstrate an advantage in gaming. If its just Steam big picture mode without any other differences, well then its neat alternative, but it doesn't offer me a better option.

Of course I understand that this isn't meant to take the place of pc gaming necessarily, but to draw in console gamers to the pc gaming platform. For those people, this could be a big deal since it offers a more console like experience for pc games.

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SteamOS will most definitely be running non gaming apps.

Indeed. Valve is working with media services behind the scenes, so we'll see movies, TV and music services being rolled out at a later date. Valve has also incorporated family controls into Steam, allowing parents to manage which games children are allowed to play and which services they can access (this is available in the Steam beta client on Windows). The company is definitely trying to expand its target audience.

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I tried it out and I have to say... it is quite well done. I am glad they decided to base it off of Debian and not Ubuntu. There should be less hiccups and concerns this way. It should remain very stable. The future of gaming in Linux looks great. There are new Linux titles added to Steam each week. Yes, mostly indie titles. Still though, the bigger companies will jump on the bandwagon soon enough. The Big Picture UI could use a bit more polish, but that is just nitpicking.

 

Keep up the great work, Valve. (Y)

Even Ubuntu is a Debian fork - at the end of the day, SteamOS is merely forked in a different direction than other forks of Debian.

 

Look at Gentoo (another fork of Debian); it has begat subforks of its own (such as Sabayon - a Gentoo fork so easy that it compares quite favorably to the Ubuntu series, as much as the Gentoo purists despise the idea - I'd actually rather use Sabayon KDE than Kubuntu, and I came to Sabayon KDE FROM Kubuntu, and normally I would have very little kind to say about Gentoo).  Sometimes, it can be little things that can direct users toward a particular DE - who would have thought that I would prefer a fork of Gentoo over Ubuntu's KDE-based DE spin, especially given my opinion of Gentoo?

 

I HAVE to pay attention to the little things - anyone that I know that would be interested in a Linux DE (Valve itself has stated, quite pointedly, that SteamOS won't be JUST for SteamMachines; it will also be a DE in its own right) will at the very least be curious.  First off, SteamOS' desktop session is based on GNOME - I'm more of a KDE person (because I prefer mostly KDE's take on applications, even those that it has in common with GNOME) - however, because of the Debian core, a KDE-based SteamOS (or sub-spins with other desktop session options) is certainly ALSO doable.  Subforks of SteamOS not only can happen, but certainly WILL happen, and especially due to the Debian core - it wouldn't surprise me if some enterprising brains in Sabayon's respin team are working on one (or more).  Suspend/resume is present (at the very least via session-switching) - this is a feature that a game console (or HTPC/media-center PC) requires.  Such hardware IS used for more than gaming - why have the feature if you don't expect users to use it?  Valve expects, at the very least, there to be SOME desktop usage out of hardware running SteamOS (you don't need Firefox to update the repos).  It's "early days" yet - I'm not expecting the moon.  I'm not even looking at SteamOS as a Windows-killer - in fact, I've never seen any alternative to Windows as having what it takes to kill Windows.  (That even includes Solaris - let alone any of the Linux OR BSD distributions.)  However, for any of them to at least make Microsoft nervous, they have to have enough in terms of usability chops to do everything Windows does - and this is where ALL the alternatives have fallen short.  (Not necessarily in every area, or even in the SAME area, but fallen short they have.)  No less than Ric Flair stated it plainest - "If you want to be the man, you have to beat the man."  (Flair actually paraphrased the devil in Milton's "Paradise Lost" - in order for the devil to win, he HAD to beat God.  That meant, like it or not, he had to match up with God.)  Therefore, any challenger to Windows must be capable of matching up - heads-up, against Windows.  So far - like it or not - none have.

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Thread cleaned.

 

Less of the childish comments please.

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Indeed. Valve is working with media services behind the scenes, so we'll see movies, TV and music services being rolled out at a later date. Valve has also incorporated family controls into Steam, allowing parents to manage which games children are allowed to play and which services they can access (this is available in the Steam beta client on Windows). The company is definitely trying to expand its target audience.

Darn right it is - because it has to.

 

Valve's SteamOS team is quite aware that not just PS4, and XB1, but even Windows 8 itself have pushed the goalposts further back.  Windows 7 (Ultimate with WMC, or Home Premium with the same) still have that pointing-device-centric UI, which makes for a lousy ten-foot UX.  However, Windows 8 doesn't have such a UX - and it did NOT break compatibility with pointing devices or desktop software.  That means that repurposing an existing PC into an HTPC is almost as painless as it gets, as long as the PC is merely capable of running Windows 7.  (Most desktop GPUs support HDMI-out - going back to before Windows 7 launched.  If you have to upgrade a desktop PC to do so, it won't cost a mint, or even $100USD.  That is today.)

 

If an OEM (of any size) wants to make any sort of decent living building SteamMachines, it has to offer more than can be gotten by a customer merely upgrading an existing PC capable of running Windows 7 (at an investment less than half that of purchasing a SteamMachine).  Gaming alone won't cut it.

 

This is also something that both Microsoft and Sony realized with their consoles when the last generation was on the drawing boards - gaming alone is NOT enough.  (Note that this was well before the first Windows Developer Preview even leaked.)  SteamMachines (OEM or BYO),also face the existing hardware base.

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SteamOS will most definitely be running non gaming apps. Not only did Valve confirm this a while back, they have made moves for Steam to start hosting non-media apps too. that could easily move over to SteamOS as well.

SteamOS is just a Linux build that boots straight into Steam Big Picture mode. So anything Steam can do on Windows, it should be doing on SteamOS.

I definitely see it as possible htpc/gaming os. My point is that right now it does not take the place of my gaming pc. It doesn't matter if its a gaming os or not. If its going to replace my gaming pc, then it will need to demonstrate an advantage in gaming. If its just Steam big picture mode without any other differences, well then its neat alternative, but it doesn't offer me a better option.

Of course I understand that this isn't meant to take the place of pc gaming necessarily, but to draw in console gamers to the pc gaming platform. For those people, this could be a big deal since it offers a more console like experience for pc games.

I don't think Steam OS will ever have any advantage over a gaming PC running windows. What advantage could it have over Windows ?

Performance ? I don't see that happening.

Functionality ? big picture running on windows will always have the same functionality as Steam OS.

Exclusive titles ? Valve would be dumb to release their first party titles exclusive to Steam OS.

Personally i see Steam OS more like a fire and forget OS for htpc/gaming pc. Anyway this is what Valve should be aiming at. It should be easy to install, manage, update and also control using a controller and a media bluetooth kb.

If they can achieve that i think they might have a chance to compete in the living room. It would definately be an interesting alternative at the very least. I personally really like big picture ui.

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