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#1 chrisj1968

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 09:20

http://news.yahoo.co...-204529065.html

 

After hearing that Microsoft may bring back the Start menu button to Windows starting with the next major release, codenamed “Threshold,” a user imagined some other ways Windows 9 (or Windows 8.2) might be improved. Andrew Ambrosino says that Microsoft has to pay attention in the future to “the little things” inside Windows, as they currently don’t work quite as expected or aren’t that user-friendly.

In addition to the return of the Start menu, the next major Windows release should also find a way for the regular Windows and the new Metro environment to coexist. Instead of having two apps, one for the “old” Windows UI and one for Metro, each with its different designs, features and notifications, Microsoft should try to unify the two environments. One way to do that is to allow users to run Metro apps inside windows in the regular desktop mode than force them to occupy the whole screen.

For what it’s worth though, a recent rumor claims that the Metro UI will be ditched in future Windows and Windows Phone versions, and will remain an optional choice for users who like it. On the other hand, a different Windows 8.2 concept has imagined a way for Microsoft to bring back the Start button without killing the Metro UI.

Ambrosino also says that Microsoft needs to address another major issue with Windows, and that’s support for stacking more than two apps on the display, so that Windows users who use big screens can fully take advantage of the added display real estate. Finally, he says that Microsoft needs to significantly upgrade its “Play To” feature that allows Windows desktop users to send content to other devices including the new Xbox One to make it easier to use, more Apple AirPlay-like.

 

 

**NOTE I highlighted the text above to point out  that they possibly plan to get modern UI and desktop to COEXIST.. before arguments ensue. :)




#2 PGHammer

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:09

http://news.yahoo.co...-204529065.html

 

After hearing that Microsoft may bring back the Start menu button to Windows starting with the next major release, codenamed “Threshold,” a user imagined some other ways Windows 9 (or Windows 8.2) might be improved. Andrew Ambrosino says that Microsoft has to pay attention in the future to “the little things” inside Windows, as they currently don’t work quite as expected or aren’t that user-friendly.

In addition to the return of the Start menu, the next major Windows release should also find a way for the regular Windows and the new Metro environment to coexist. Instead of having two apps, one for the “old” Windows UI and one for Metro, each with its different designs, features and notifications, Microsoft should try to unify the two environments. One way to do that is to allow users to run Metro apps inside windows in the regular desktop mode than force them to occupy the whole screen.

For what it’s worth though, a recent rumor claims that the Metro UI will be ditched in future Windows and Windows Phone versions, and will remain an optional choice for users who like it. On the other hand, a different Windows 8.2 concept has imagined a way for Microsoft to bring back the Start button without killing the Metro UI.

Ambrosino also says that Microsoft needs to address another major issue with Windows, and that’s support for stacking more than two apps on the display, so that Windows users who use big screens can fully take advantage of the added display real estate. Finally, he says that Microsoft needs to significantly upgrade its “Play To” feature that allows Windows desktop users to send content to other devices including the new Xbox One to make it easier to use, more Apple AirPlay-like.

 

 

**NOTE I highlighted the text above to point out  that they possibly plan to get modern UI and desktop to COEXIST.. before arguments ensue. :)

Please - the whole argument from the anti-Modern side is that they should NOT co-exist - that ModernUI should be killed off, in favor of a return to a pointing-device-centric UI (ala Windows 7, which has not gone anywhere).

 

There are plenty of utilities that bring some form of Start menu to Windows 8 or 8.1 - both free AND fee.  However, that's not enough for the critics - nothing less than the return of Windows 7's Start menu suffices.

 

Why not simply go back to Windows 7?  It is still available from Microsoft, and will be supported by Microsoft for another few years.  (I've been pointing that out since the Developer Preview, and so has everyone else that has spoken in favor of - or defended - ModernUI - including Dot Matrix.)

 

What's the REAL reason that this bashfest has continually grown and grown, when issues for users can be fixed any number of ways?

 

Apparently there are enough good features in Windows 8.x - ModernUI aside - that make it worth keeping, even in the eyes of the critics.

 

However, those third-party utilities I've cited aren't enough.

 

What does Windows 7's Start menu have that NONE of the third-party utilities have?



#3 Dot Matrix

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:20

Metro apps on the desktop isn't default behavior that is too desirable. The desktop just isn't wanted on other devices. I don't want or want to support people trying to use the desktop on their Surface. It's just not going to work, and is the reason Windows 7 tablets failed hard.
 

"Ambrosino also says that Microsoft needs to address another major issue with Windows, and that’s support for stacking more than two apps on the display, so that Windows users who use big screens can fully take advantage of the added display real estate."

Has this guy not used 8.1?

#4 Athernar

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:39

Please - the whole argument from the anti-Modern side is that they should NOT co-exist - that ModernUI should be killed off, in favor of a return to a pointing-device-centric UI (ala Windows 7, which has not gone anywhere).

 

Completely false. The argument has always been for choice, choice the "pro-Modern" crowd have been utterly terrified of.

 

Why not simply go back to Windows 7?  It is still available from Microsoft, and will be supported by Microsoft for another few years.  (I've been pointing that out since the Developer Preview, and so has everyone else that has spoken in favor of - or defended - ModernUI - including Dot Matrix.)

 

If Microsoft made the effort to bring their new API revisions to 7/Vista you might have had an argument here, but they don't.

 

What does Windows 7's Start menu have that NONE of the third-party utilities have?

 

You should not be forced to resort to third party utilities to fix an OS regression, just because some out-of-touch execs got a tad too arrogant.



#5 +Anarkii

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:46

Id prolly use Modern apps if I could run them in a window on the desktop. I just dont want to ever, EVER, see that horrendous Metro UI. EVER. Then again theres bugger all good apps out there anyway :/



#6 Growled

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 16:54

Please - the whole argument from the anti-Modern side is that they should NOT co-exist - that ModernUI should be killed off, in favor of a return to a pointing-device-centric UI (ala Windows 7, which has not gone anywhere).

 

It's more like the Modern UI that has gone nowhere. Windows 7 is the most popular OS in the world.



#7 +DConnell

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 17:00

Completely false. The argument has always been for choice, choice the "pro-Modern" crowd have been utterly terrified of.

 

 

The reason I'm afraid of the choice is because of the "it must go" attitude of some of the "anti-Modern" crowd. Choice isn't the problem - it's the fact that for some, that apparently won't be enough.

 

Others having the option to use the menu doesn't bother me. The potential for losing Modern on the desktop, especially the Start Screen, does.



#8 +fusi0n

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 17:03

and here we go.. 



#9 wv@gt

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 17:04

Its starting to feel more and more like Windows 8 is a trial to if a hybrid OS can or can not work. Windows 9 could go in a few directions depending on how Windows 8 usage evolves over the next year or so 



#10 +techbeck

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 17:07

Dont see how they cannot make it so the start screen is enabled automatically when used on a tablet/touch device...then defaults to a start menu when used on a desktop.  Software is smart enough to determine what kind of device you are using and auto selects the Start screen or menu.  Then over time when touch devices become the norm, this feature will phase itself out.



#11 firey

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 17:12

I sincerely believe that if MS had had two UI Modes (Metro/Normal) with the ability to run Metro apps inside of the desktop, 8 would have taken off.  If they had built on Windows 7, kept the way it looked, and functioned with the new technology in 8.. it would probably be very close to 7 in sales. 

They could have appealed 100% to the desktop crowd by having a Windows 7 esque feel, Start menu, no metro (unless invoked, even then an option to have full screen (immersive) or windowed mode), aero, etc.  Then by having the metro as default for tablets they could have appealed 100% to the metro tablet users, and by having the option to shut it off, work as a valid upgrade for those with W7 tablets.



#12 firey

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 17:13

Dont see how they cannot make it so the start screen is enabled automatically when used on a tablet/touch device...then defaults to a start menu when used on a desktop.  Software is smart enough to determine what kind of device you are using and auto selects the Start screen or menu.  Then over time when touch devices become the norm, this feature will phase itself out.

I agree, though for lots of things I don't see touch screens becoming the norm... unless everything is voice driven drag and drop mind reading.  I could NEVER write software on a touch screen.  It would be way too tedious and time consuming.  I can obviously type at least 10x as fast on a keyboard as i can on a touch screen.



#13 +techbeck

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 17:16

I agree, though for lots of things I don't see touch screens becoming the norm... unless everything is voice driven drag and drop mind reading.  I could NEVER write software on a touch screen.  It would be way too tedious and time consuming.  I can obviously type at least 10x as fast on a keyboard as i can on a touch screen.

 

Norm doesnt mean everyone. I am sure there will still be the need for KB/Ms for decades to come.  Just MS abandoned their desktop users which pretty much makes up the vast majority of their users.  Doing something like an auto detect and switch depending on what device you were on would of done wonders.  Or just the ability to go back to the Start Menu, pin Metro apps to the task bar, and minimize metro apps.  Win8 would sales would of been a million times better.



#14 Lord Method Man

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 17:17

Dont see how they cannot make it so the start screen is enabled automatically when used on a tablet/touch device...then defaults to a start menu when used on a desktop.  Software is smart enough to determine what kind of device you are using and auto selects the Start screen or menu.  Then over time when touch devices become the norm, this feature will phase itself out.

 

Especially since Windows already does this in other ways such as enabling and disabling certain settings based on whether the system is a desktop or a laptop.



#15 firey

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 17:20

Norm doesnt mean everyone. I am sure there will still be the need for KB/Ms for decades to come.  Just MS abandoned their desktop users which pretty much makes up the vast majority of their users.  Doing something like an auto detect and switch depending on what device you were on would of done wonders.  Or just the ability to go back to the Start Menu, pin Metro apps to the task bar, and minimize metro apps.  Win8 would sales would of been a million times better.

I agree, I just didn't agree with phasing it out, as there will likely always be a case where the need for a full fledged non touch UI may be required.

I'm not saying you can't do it on Windows 8.. but it is no where near as efficient in many respects as 7.





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