Girl dies after pharmacist refuses to give EpiPen without prescription

[Hardcore Til I Die]

So you're saying you'd happily give someone something which might not even help them with the consequences being you are struck off from ever working in the medical field again (and it'll follow you around to every job you apply for too), and potentially being imprisoned for giving unprescribed drugs to people/manslaughter and the person possibly dying anyway? (Bearing in mind if you do not have a valid prescription for a drug and have it on you, depending upon what it is, it can be classed the same as recreational drugs in classes A-C)

Well, good luck in life if you take that attitude.

 

Having read more about it, it looks like Adrenaline isn't suitable for everyone. I was of the misguided impression that it could help everyone. The NHS website says Adrenaline is only prescribed by doctors when they know the patient's full medical history. 

[siah1214]

Having read more about it, it looks like Adrenaline isn't suitable for everyone. I was of the misguided impression that it could help everyone. The NHS website says Adrenaline is only prescribed by doctors when they know the patient's full medical history. 

Epinephrine can kill or cause permanent damage. Another reason not to give it to any Tom Dick and Harry that comes in off the street demanding it.

 

Wow, how callous can people be to say that "the pharmacy did the right thing by not providing life saving medicine"?

 

It boggles the mind!p 

Hey how much experience do you have with food allergies and medicines to treat them?   Glad you're such an expert on the subject, now enlighten us about how we're all *******s. 

[+Warwagon MVC]

Hasn't anyone watched ER, if you are extremely desperate just stab her in the heck with a pen and give her a poor mans tracheotomy

[Anibal P]

I bet most of you defending the scum "pharmacist" would be throwing "righteous" tantrums if the pharmacists was refusing to pass out the morning after pill or Plan B

[Buttus]

This is a good example of "damned if you do, damned if you don't"

[compl3x]

Wow, how callous can people be to say that "the pharmacy did the right thing by not providing life saving medicine"?

 

It boggles the mind!

 

 

I don't think I would characterize what the pharmacy did as "the right thing". It's probably more of an issue of what they are trained to do: don't dispense prescription medicine without a prescription because we'll get effing sued.

 

This story seems odd. Was the girl in the pharmacy? Was she in real distress? I doubt if a person was gasping for air, struggling for dear life, the pharmacist would be like "Sorry, mate, can't help ya".

[siah1214]

I bet most of you defending the scum "pharmacist" would be throwing "righteous" tantrums if the pharmacists was refusing to pass out the morning after pill or Plan B

No, and no.  What is your basis for calling the pharmacist "scum"?

[Gerowen]

Oh PLEASE!! WTF?!?

Welcome to modern society.  Every news story like this I read just makes me want to pack up and move under a rock cliff in the middle of the woods, because I'm becoming more and more convinced that the rest of humanity is either untrustworthy, incompetent, or both.

[Skin]

Epinephrine can kill or cause permanent damage. Another reason not to give it to any Tom Dick and Harry that comes in off the street demanding it.

 

So can certain foods. For f*ck's sake, the pharmacist could have called 911 (999 or 112 there?) for her (told them to go to hospital instead... awesome), or looked at her and seen the reaction and chosen to help, etc.

 

There are laws and rigid facts, then there is doing what's right and humane. They don't always go hand in hand, in this topsy-turvey world we live in.

[seafirex]

The pharmacist did the right thing , too much drug addicts that are without cash to buy some drugs looks like they are really going to die but it is just the after effect of drugs in there body making them look like it ( sweats , smell, throw up, cramps etc. ) it is very hard to tell who is a drug addict in pain for not having drug avail to them and a real sick individual. And they always try to get away with free drugs by looking sick all the time they are not the one with lots of money that's for sure. Heck they can even sell there Mom if they have too to buy some.

 

But the poor pharmacist in the end needs to protect them self from good and even evil people. otherwise they can get sued for doing the right thing and also for not doing it. it is way harder then people think.

 

The one and only one at fault here is the family and that girl her self for not having the medication with them. It is not something you get later in life it is something you are born with rare occasion you will see someone later in life been subject to get a reaction to products they where not allergic to prior and something major must happend to them to get that way . At her age they knew fair well that this is something she would experience in her life at one point or another because she probably had it since birth. Why not have the medication with them? It is something they knew that had to plan everyday. Not once in a while. Even friends or other relative that is in contact with her have to watch what they eat or touch so they don't get in contact with her just in case. 

 

But again i feel for her and yes when i read the article i felt very angry at the pharmacist but after analyzing the info i got to think about it more and he can't be held responsable by following the law. It is a shame but again don't blame the guy for the family fault here. 

 

Edit read the article : she was in the street she did not even went in i think only the mother to request the medication. i could be wrong buts that is what i read.

 

edit 2 : The family rushed round the corner to the Hamilton Long chemist shop but a male worker told Caroline they couldn?t give her an EpiPen shot - a special allergy injection - without a prescription. The worker advised Sloan to take her daughter to hospital but Emma collapsed on the street outside.

[rfirth]

It's basically the family's fault for not carrying the girl inside. He might have given it to her if he could have seen for himself. It's also a lot harder to say no when someone is dying in front of you.

It's asking a lot to ask a pharmacist to illegally dispense medication without a prescription without even seeing the patient.

 

If I was the family, I would have stolen it and slammed down cash on the counter to pay for it. Get the prescription retrospectively later.

[Dane]

There is some protection under law that if you are rendering aid to someone in need you are protected, nothing malicious was intended, so the pharmacy, considering the circumstances would be cleared of any criminal charges.

 

 

It depends on the state.  They have good Samaritan laws. If you help them and something happens, you're ok.  If you help them wrongly and knowingly then you have some issues. 

 

 

I stop at some incidents if I know the responders are aways out if it looks serious.   If ###### has really hit the fan then I announce who I am and start care/triage until other units get there.

[Pharm88]

I'm am a pharmacist in the US so granted its not 100% applicable but in many states the pharmacist in this situation could be held accountable for negligence and at the very least be sanctioned by the state board of pharmacy.

While many pharmacists in the US do not have prescriptive privileges, several do and the VA healthcare system allows pharmacists to prescribe.

It is a tricky situation however, at least here in the US, pharmacists have a ethical and legal duty for patients.

It might be easier if pharmacists were actually considered healthcare providers by law

[+Warwagon MVC]

It's basically the family's fault for not carrying the girl inside. He might have given it to her if he could have seen for himself. It's also a lot harder to say no when someone is dying in front of you.

It's asking a lot to ask a pharmacist to illegally dispense medication without a prescription without even seeing the patient.

 

If I was the family, I would have stolen it and slammed down cash on the counter to pay for it. Get the prescription retrospectively later.

 

Exactly all the pharmacist saw was some crazy dude making up some excuse to get some drugs. Was his daughter really dying outside? Maybe, but what if she wasn't and the pharmacist believed him and gave him drugs. Like the guy who I quoted said "bring her in, let him see her die in front of him" he's more likey to give you what you need.

[riahc3]

Hello,

Dublin, Ireland ?  A teenage girl died on the street after a pharmacy refused to hand over a life-saving adrenaline injection to the girl's mother because she didn't have a prescription.

Emma Sloan, 14, suffered an allergic reaction to peanuts after mistaking satay sauce for curry sauce at a Chinese restaurant in Dublin. She told her mother, Caroline, she was having difficulty breathing.

The family rushed round the corner to the Hamilton Long chemist shop but a male worker told Caroline they couldn?t give her an EpiPen shot - a special allergy injection - without a prescription. The worker advised Sloan to take her daughter to hospital but Emma collapsed on the street outside.

A passing doctor, as well as ambulance staff and firefighters, tried to resuscitate her but it was too late. The teenager died in front of her two sisters.

more

This is a ****ed up situation but.....I gotta go with the pharmacist :( Poor girl. 

 

As much as I feel for the family and the girl, the pharmacy is in the right. You are not allowed (by law) to give out prescription-only medication without a prescription, if they did give out an epipen  and it made things worse, people would be howling at the pharmacy saying 'how dare they give out a prescription medication without a prescription!'

Exactly. There are just so many legal and health issues....

 

I say the girl was an idiot for not carrying her prescription/medicine with her.  

 

Had this happened to a family member of mine, I would have just robbed the pharmacy.  They take no hit for the stolen prescription drugs, my family member lives, and I'd stand a very decent chance of getting off due to the circumstances.

Im not sure if she was on prescription/medicine. I think she is simply allergic and thats it.

I understand from a sentimental point of view you would rob the store but do remember that it would have legal consequences.  

The mother also should have immediately called 911 and probably headed to emergency if not. If she knew she had allergic reactions that serious, wth were they doing anywhere in a peanut sauce serving restaurant and how could she have eaten it without knowing? That's also somewhat irresponsible.

Thats something I dont understand; Why take her to a pharmacist shop when you should have called 911 (actually 112) FIRST then, if neccesary, take her to a pharmacist shop?

This is a tough situation but the pharmacist did nothing wrong. He is not allowed to give prescription drugs.

I remember once that I had to take some pills but ran out. I went to the pharmacy and I was denied because the prescription date for my pills was a bit later than when I went. It was my fault for losing a couple of pills so I had to go earlier but either way I needed them. I was refused so I called 112 to get medical attention at a local community health center. I told them that I HAD to get a prescription for the drugs because I had lost them and THEN I got a legal prescription.

Relating to this case, yes, it might have taken longer to do the process I did but it might have saved her life. Also, considering this EpiPen is something common, I suppose most hospital have some for emergency situations so the hospital would be administered it no questions asked...Reading while I write, even if injected with this EpiPen, it says afterwards you should seek immediate medical attention so....

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

I understand from a sentimental point of view you would rob the store but do remember that it would have legal consequences.  

Thats something I dont understand; Why take her to a pharmacist shop when you should have called 911 (actually 112) FIRST then, if neccesary, take her to a pharmacist shop?

 

Probably because she realized that it would be too late by the time medical aid arrived so she didn't want to waste precious time on it. Allergic reactions like that can kill in mere minutes. Chances are that it would have been impossible to do save her by the time medical aid arrived regardless of whether vehicle was sent out instantly or not.

[Wyrdstorm]

I suffer from this nut/sesame seed allergy, the reaction is called Anaphylaxis, and I can tell you from experience that rational thinking goes out of the window, as you can literally have as little as 5 mins to get medical attention! Most likely the hospital was longer away than the chemist, and this would have been seen as the quickest option! and that is what you go for, quickest thing to save your/the persons life!

 

I don't understand why she didn't have an EpiPen with her, i know they are a royal pain in the a$$ to carry round due to size, but, they can be a lifesaver! - I have 3 of them, one stays with me, one stays with my partner and the last one is at my grandparents and Ii work in a hospital, so I am covered if I forget mine, I am alone, at work and out with the grandparents!
 

I can see this from both sides, pharmacy was not allowed to dispense, BUT, if they seen the child then they should have dispensed it and sorted it later, as it would be clear that this was no prank! - anaphylaxis is not something you can fake!

The drug inside the EpiPen is Adrenaline, not really a drug to be abused as the worst-case scenario would be cardiac arrhythmia's and death!

 

The EpiPen does say head straight to for medical attention, this is because the initial injection is slowing down the reaction enough to allow extra time to get to a hospital, where they can be treated fully!

[McKay]

I feel for the guy in the Pharmacy, he cant give it without a prescription, and if he believed every sob story from everyone who came in and begged for drugs that can easily be abused, he'd be conned by a lot of druggies.

[riahc3]

Hello,

Probably because she realized that it would be too late by the time medical aid arrived so she didn't want to waste precious time on it. Allergic reactions like that can kill in mere minutes. Chances are that it would have been impossible to do save her by the time medical aid arrived regardless of whether vehicle was sent out instantly or not.

"She" (Mother/girl/etc) is not a authorized doctor. Not that I dispute your claims of being too late but I am sure that if you call emergency services and claim "My daughter has a alergic reaction, she does not have a perscription for x drugs, and she needs it now" the ambulance will have adrenaline shot when they arrive.

 

 

I suffer from this nut/sesame seed allergy, the reaction is called Anaphylaxis, and I can tell you from experience that rational thinking goes out of the window, as you can literally have as little as 5 mins to get medical attention! Most likely the hospital was longer away than the chemist, and this would have been seen as the quickest option! and that is what you go for, quickest thing to save your/the persons life!

 

I don't understand why she didn't have an EpiPen with her, i know they are a royal pain in the ass to carry round due to size, but, they can be a lifesaver! - I have 3 of them, one stays with me, one stays with my partner and the last one is at my grandparents and Ii work in a hospital, so I am covered if I forget mine, I am alone, at work and out with the grandparents!

 

I can see this from both sides, pharmacy was not allowed to dispense, BUT, if they seen the child then they should have dispensed it and sorted it later, as it would be clear that this was no prank! - anaphylaxis is not something you can fake!

The drug inside the EpiPen is Adrenaline, not really a drug to be abused as the worst-case scenario would be cardiac arrhythmia's and death!

 

The EpiPen does say head straight to for medical attention, this is because the initial injection is slowing down the reaction enough to allow extra time to get to a hospital, where they can be treated fully!

"Sorted it out later"; What if the law decides to act like a ###### and close down the pharmacy and strip the pharmacist of his license?

At the end you said it yourself: The girl (or her parents) should have had the adrenaline shot with her at ALL TIMES. I know I have my pills with me at all times even if I go for bread...

[riahc3]

Hello,

I feel for the guy in the Pharmacy, he cant give it without a prescription, and if he believed every sob story from everyone who came in and begged for drugs that can easily be abused, he'd be conned by a lot of druggies.

Well, some people argue that if the girl came INTO the pharmacy and he saw the girl's condition, he should have gave her the shot (I disagree still but I wanted to point out that he might have actually seen the scene play out)

[HawkMan]

Here, depending on state law, school offices stock EpiPens for emergency non-prescription dispensing, such as a kid experiencing a food allergy. AFAICT Illinois became the latest state to approve this last year.

I would also think that under Good Samaritan laws the pharmacist would have cover.

I know for a FACT that that in Michigan pharmacies will dispense emergency inhalers to an asthmatic in acute distress because it has happened to me.

Asthma medicine has no effect on people without asthma though...

I wonder though, if she collapsed and died that fast, would the epipen really have helped her... Seems like it would have been to late anyway.

[McKay]

Asthma medicine has no effect on people without asthma though...

I wonder though, if she collapsed and died that fast, would the epipen really have helped her... Seems like it would have been to late anyway.

 

Because people can die within minutes due to an allergy, epipens extend that time hugely, allowing someone to reach a hospital.

[HawkMan]

Yeah but she was already dying by the time they where ate the pharmacy, the way it's written she would be dead by the time they got back out with the pen anyway.

[n_K]

I bet most of you defending the scum "pharmacist" would be throwing "righteous" tantrums if the pharmacists was refusing to pass out the morning after pill or Plan B

I can't say I have any experience with getting either, but from what I'm aware neither are prescription only medications, they're both pharmacist medications so they can dispense them, there's a very big difference between providing a pharmacy-controlled pill containing excess female hormones VS a prescription only medication which can kill.

[Soldiers33]

this wouldnt happen if people werent so greedy for money. Everyone sues each other just to get easy money. Maybe im just saying this now, but if I know i was asked to do somethign wrong and could be in a lot of trouble for it, then I wouldnt do it. Its easy to sit here and say hes this and that, but he did what was right.