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I mainly would like a laptop with a pen to highlight/annotate papers, use it as "scrap paper" when studying in grad school. I already bought my wife a Dell Venue 8 Pro, which is an awesome little device. I was thinking, would it be a good idea to use the tablet when i want to jot down handwritten notes and use a regular laptop for everything else?

I've reading around these forums, reading reviews, watching youtube and finally found that a Thinkpad yoga would be the best compromise. However, I choose a normal laptop, then I have more options.

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Posted

Have you considered a tablet?

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What about a Surface Pro its basically a laptop in tablet form.

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Have you seen Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro? It offers the best of both worlds imho.

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What about a Surface Pro its basically a laptop in tablet form.

Totally agree on the Surface Pro or Pro 2. It is one of the best apps for note taking. The hardware is quite beefy, and if you complement it with a type/touch keyboard, it gives you the best of both tablet and laptop modes.

The original Surface Pro 128GB is $599 at Best buy and Microsoft store. http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-and-best-buy-now-selling-original-128gb-surface-pro-for-just-599

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What about a Surface Pro its basically a laptop in tablet form.

Too heavy. I also considered going that route, but the Surface is essentially a (too) thick tablet and a (too) small laptop at the same time. Too much of a compromise. Supposedly now at CES a few more interesting hybrids will be revealed. Its a surface pro specs in a surface form the thing that people are waiting for.

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Too heavy. I also considered going that route, but the Surface is essentially a (too) thick tablet and a (too) small laptop at the same time. Too much of a compromise. Supposedly now at CES a few more interesting hybrids will be revealed. Its a surface pro specs in a surface form the thing that people are waiting for.

This is quite a common complaint for Surface Pro (and Surface). Makes no sense to me - I use this in tablet form and laptop mode, and it's light considering the specs (and build quality on Surface Pro is phenomenal). You really don't notice the weight, at least I don't. Is there another hybrid out there that weighs as little as the Surface Pro and has equivalent specs (or better)? Maybe a handful of devices, if that. 

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This is quite a common complaint for Surface Pro (and Surface). Makes no sense to me - I use this in tablet form and laptop mode, and it's light considering the specs (and build quality on Surface Pro is phenomenal). You really don't notice the weight, at least I don't. Is there another hybrid out there that weighs as little as the Surface Pro and has equivalent specs (or better)? Maybe a handful of devices, if that. 

 

Its nowhere near an iPad in terms of weight and like it or not its the iPad that defines the tablet category. The Dell venue pro 11 is much closer to a true tablet and this is what the surface pro should have been. As said, at CES next week a few more interesting devices should come out.

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Its nowhere near an iPad in terms of weight and like it or not its the iPad that defines the tablet category. The Dell venue pro 11 is much closer to a true tablet and this is what the surface pro should have been. As said, at CES next week a few more interesting devices should come out.

If you want to compare to an iPad, you compare a Surface.

 

iPad 4 size: 241.2 x 185.7 x 9.4 (mm); Surface 2 size: 274 x 171 x 8.9 (mm)

iPad 4 weight: 662g; Surface 2 weight: 680g

 

When you jump up to a Surface Pro you now have a full laptop that can run actual programs vs. just apps.

 

Macbook Air 11" size: 300 x 192 x 17 (mm); Surface Pro 2 size: 274.5 x 173 x 13.5 (mm)

Macbook Air 11: weight: 1.08 kg; Surface Pro 2 weight: 0.9 kg.

 

I traded my Macbook Pro/iPad combo for a Surface Pro and couldn't be happier.  

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Its nowhere near an iPad in terms of weight and like it or not its the iPad that defines the tablet category. The Dell venue pro 11 is much closer to a true tablet and this is what the surface pro should have been. As said, at CES next week a few more interesting devices should come out.

The Surface Pro (which is what I was referring to in my post) doesn't even compete with the iPad. The iPad has no real productivity features that the Surface Pro has - it's on a restricted OS, whereas the Surface Pro is a full fledged laptop that runs full Windows. Intel's next iteration of chips Broadwell should be nice to enable smaller devices.

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if you can find one, a Surface Pro 2 is a solution for both options, its a very powerful tablet that has full capabilities of a business laptop. The base model of the Surface Pro 2 has the same specs (except for storage space) as what we use for our base model computers where I work) and the Surface Pro 2 is capable of playing Borderlands 2 if you really wanted it to. The device is rather powerful and yet still very mobile and ready to go as a tablet.

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If you want to compare to an iPad, you compare a Surface.

 

iPad 4 size: 241.2 x 185.7 x 9.4 (mm); Surface 2 size: 274 x 171 x 8.9 (mm)

iPad 4 weight: 662g; Surface 2 weight: 680g

 

When you jump up to a Surface Pro you now have a full laptop that can run actual programs vs. just apps.

 

Macbook Air 11" size: 300 x 192 x 17 (mm); Surface Pro 2 size: 274.5 x 173 x 13.5 (mm)

Macbook Air 11: weight: 1.08 kg; Surface Pro 2 weight: 0.9 kg.

 

I traded my Macbook Pro/iPad combo for a Surface Pro and couldn't be happier.  

 

At the risk of sounding like I am trolling:

 

Weight/Battery life:

Surface 2: 680g/15hrs (

Surface Pro 2: 0.9kg/6hrs

MacBook Air 11": 1.1kg/10hrs

iPad Air: 469g/10hrs

 

Battery life is super important to me whilst on the move.  Whether it is important to the OP is a different matter.

 

Disclosure: I have don't have an Apple computer, an iPad or a Surface branded device.

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If you are going for notes or type of scratch paper, then get the Surface 2 pro.  I have the Surface Pro and it is amazing!  I also have the Yoga 2 Pro, it IS a laptop.  So when you say normal laptop, the Yoga is that and a bit more.   However, I don't know if it supports a stylus like the Surface for taking notes.  The surface stylus obviously doesn't work with it.  I hate those rubber tip ones.

 

If notes is your biggest need, go with a Surface 2 pro.

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I had a surface pro, good device, but too small for me to do a lot of work on it for extended period of time. I had hit hooked to external monitor, kb/mouse but that's not feasible anymore. I returned it, anyway.

 

Considered the Thinkpad Yoga, but sadly the physical buttons on gone and these laptop tend to non-user expandable. So I have decided to have 2 separate devices. The V8P is awesome. Now I need to find a T420 replacement.

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At the risk of sounding like I am trolling:
 
Weight/Battery life:
Surface 2: 680g/15hrs (
Surface Pro 2: 0.9kg/6hrs
MacBook Air 11": 1.1kg/10hrs
iPad Air: 469g/10hrs
 
Battery life is super important to me whilst on the move.  Whether it is important to the OP is a different matter.
 
Disclosure: I have don't have an Apple computer, an iPad or a Surface branded device.

Absolutely!  You should definitely look at the specs that matter to the way you will use the device.
 
I'm not sure where the 6hr battery life number comes from but some independent testing has shown over 8hrs after a recent firmware update:

Microsoft promised a 75 percent increase in battery life for Surface Pro 2 over the original, and the company delivered. In our review we noted that the Surface Pro 2 lasted 7 hours, 33 minutes on the Verge Battery Test, which cycles through a series of websites and high-res images with screen brightness set to 65 percent. Anandtech has discovered that a recently released Surface Pro 2 firmware update has pushed the battery life even further.
 
In our own Verge Battery Test we can confirm that the battery life on the Surface Pro 2 has increased to 8 hours, 51 minutes following the firmware update, an almost 20 percent increase. Anandtech notes that the improvements appear to be related to a change that lets the Marvell Wi-Fi chipset use less power. The improvements are impressive and help improve the viability of using the device all day as a tablet or a laptop. Microsoft

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Absolutely!  You should definitely look at the specs that matter to the way you will use the device.
 
I'm not sure where the 6hr battery life number comes from but some independent testing has shown over 8hrs after a recent firmware update:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/4/5064026/microsoft-surface-pro-2-battery-life-firmware-update

 

 

Seriously 8 hours? It's being advertised with 5 on the sites I saw.  I looked on Engadget which was saying 6.

8 hours is decent and would put the Surface 2 Pro back on my list.

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Seriously 8 hours? It's being advertised with 5 on the sites I saw.  I looked on Engadget which was saying 6.

8 hours is decent and would put the Surface 2 Pro back on my list.

I own the Surface Pro 2 and from experience can always get between 8-9 hours of realistic battery life. My typical usage is VPN'd into work using remote desktop and listening to music while working. If I cut out the music or VPN and just focus on normal browsing, and the occasional video online I can get right at 10 hours - light usage.
 Since the latest firmware update- the battery life has decreased to about 6-7 hours- but microsoft said they are fixing that very soon- so I expect to be back to where I was close to 9 hours.

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Seriously 8 hours? It's being advertised with 5 on the sites I saw. I looked on Engadget which was saying 6.
8 hours is decent and would put the Surface 2 Pro back on my list.

Ahh, I just saw the Engadget review, although they do state that it was 6:30 hours of uninterrupted video playback with WiFi on at 65% screen brightness. So what you do with it is obviously important too.

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Seriously 8 hours? It's being advertised with 5 on the sites I saw.  I looked on Engadget which was saying 6.

8 hours is decent and would put the Surface 2 Pro back on my list.

From just web browsing, office, you can easily get 10 hours. I primarily use mine for media consumption, Office (Word/Excel) and VPN'ing into work (running PuTTY). 

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The Surface Pro (which is what I was referring to in my post) doesn't even compete with the iPad. The iPad has no real productivity features that the Surface Pro has - it's on a restricted OS, whereas the Surface Pro is a full fledged laptop that runs full Windows. Intel's next iteration of chips Broadwell should be nice to enable smaller devices.

I am not commenting on the laptop features of the surface pro, but on the fact that the tablet part of the hybrid is a major trade off. If you tout it as a tablet, then the iPad IS a competitor and this is where it simply loses the battle. Its not a surprise why MSFT doesn't even reveal sales numbers of the surface as they are still low. And whether a relatively fan-site (like this one) loves them doest make too much of a difference on the overall picture.

 

As said, in my view the dell venue pro is a much better proposition

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I am not commenting on the laptop features of the surface pro, but on the fact that the tablet part of the hybrid is a major trade off. If you tout it as a tablet, then the iPad IS a competitor and this is where it simply loses the battle. Its not a surprise why MSFT doesn't even reveal sales numbers of the surface as they are still low. And whether a relatively fan-site (like this one) loves them doest make too much of a difference on the overall picture.

 

As said, in my view the dell venue pro is a much better proposition

Just because of the size of the Surface Pro? The iPad and Surface Pro are absolutely in different market segments, and like I said, Surface Pro does run a full fledged OS. If I want a device based on value, I'd go for the Nexus 7 or Nexus 10 (or something along those lines). These Android tablets are typically cheaper than the iPad's and offer similar functionality.

 

Nope, doesn't matter if it sells or not. The fact is the Surface Pro 2 works for me, the weight isn't a problem for me, and it'is a much better value compared to a iPad. Let's see an iPad Air 128 GB for $799, locked into an ecosystem where I can't run the apps I want or for $200 more (Surface Pro 2 128GB), a device with much more functionality and far more powerful? Yeah, that's a very difficult question for me :rofl: . Before you go calling me a fanboy, I use iOS, Android and Windows - I just pick devices that work for me. Do I care if the Surface Pro is selling well or not? Nope, couldn't care less. I will say the second generation of Surface products are in limited quantities everywhere - whether or not that's a good thing, Microsoft leaves that up to your interpretation. 

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Just because of the size of the Surface Pro? The iPad and Surface Pro are absolutely in different market segments, and like I said, Surface Pro does run a full fledged OS. If I want a device based on value, I'd go for the Nexus 7 or Nexus 10 (or something along those lines). These Android tablets are typically cheaper than the iPad's and offer similar functionality.

 

No, they are not in a different segment. MSFT positions the surface as BOTH a tablet and a laptop. Hence the "hybrid". This is supposed to be better as its dual in function. The fact that the majority of buyers dont vote with their wallets in this way is telling. The fact that it works for you is great and i am glad you are happy with that choice. However, this isnt the reality in the marketplace overall. I am still optimistic though, hopefully now with what will be the second batch of hybrids things should improve much more

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No, they are not in a different segment. MSFT positions the surface as BOTH a tablet and a laptop. Hence the "hybrid". This is supposed to be better as its dual in function. The fact that the majority of buyers dont vote with their wallets in this way is telling. The fact that it works for you is great and i am glad you are happy with that choice. However, this isnt the reality in the marketplace overall. I am still optimistic though, hopefully now with what will be the second batch of hybrids things should improve much more

If that were the case they wouldn't make a Surface (non-pro).  If you compare an iPad to the Surface then I see your point.  The fact is you can add a little more size and get the full laptop functionality is a great tradeoff.

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Too heavy. I also considered going that route, but the Surface is essentially a (too) thick tablet and a (too) small laptop at the same time. Too much of a compromise. Supposedly now at CES a few more interesting hybrids will be revealed. Its a surface pro specs in a surface form the thing that people are waiting for.

That's my opinion of the Surface Pro 2 as well.  It tries to be both a tablet and a laptop... but the laptop part is too small for me.

 

10.6" laptops weren't very popular before because of the small screen size... so why would they be now?

 

Personally... the smallest I could go on something that is supposed to be my laptop would be 13.3"

 

I'd say for me... my perfect solution would be a 14" laptop for computing duties... and something like an iPad Mini for entertainment and reading. Both devices do what they're supposed to do... and I really wouldn't feel the extra weight of the tablet in my bag when I traveled.

 

Like you said... trying to combine two things into one ends up having a lot of compromises.

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Posted

Hello,

like it or not its the iPad that defines the tablet category.

Um, not really, its the market that defines the tablet category.

The iPad was the only tablet back when it was released so yup, it did in that moment define the tablet category.
But now, Android tablets cheap and expensive are sold like crazy and those define the tablet category.

Normal people (not on Neowin, sorry :p ) want cheap, non expensive stuff.

Personally, I agree with a lot of people here: The Surface Pro sounds what you are looking for :)

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