What level of responsibility do game retailers have re: age restrictions

[_dandy_]

Parents need to be parents and own up to the task.  If they need to have somebody else tell them what's appropriate for their own brat, they're doing a lousy job.

 

The ESRB is a voluntary rating--lets keep it that way.  We have failed as a society if we need simple things such as this to be instead enforced through legislation.

[Roger H. Veteran]

I say check IDs only is all that's needed. If a parent wants to buy Gears Of War for their kid then that's their prerogative. As long as the sale is conducted to someone of legal age that should be all that's needed.

 

If parents are't responsible for their kids then that's their problem (and ours later on in life.... ) :no:

[leesmithg]

But there is. In the UK at least, age restrictions on games are legally binding. It is just as a illegal to sell an 18 rated game to someone younger than 18 as it is to sell alcohol to an under 18 year old (though the punishments will obviously be different).

Could you post u.r.l. to the law please.

[KingCracker]

If its the law then its their responsibility to check id's. There should be harsh penalties for buying video games for under age kids.

[PGHammer]

I've had lectures from shop assistants who think I've been buying cigarettes for underage kids, I don't think it's any different to buying a minor age restricted media.

 

Products contain age restrictions for reasons, and whilst I believe staff should try to educate adults who they believe are buying adult games for minors, it all ultimately lands on the head of the adult in question.

 

A lot of parents these days are a bit 'behind the times' and don't know what they're buying for their kids. If I was a major game retailer, I'd play on that ignorance to provide a clear breakdown of just what age ratings mean.  Normally, I'd say that would be going above and beyond their remit, but it is inbound marketing at it's finest.

 

Who are these parents going to buy from after watching an informative video concerning video game ratings?  The company that told them Saints Row IV wasn't a game about theological arguments.

The restricted-substances issue (tobacco, liquor - especially beer and wine) is directly applicable to gaming, and, if it is going to be enforced, should take the cue from the same other two markets -- both retailer and parents have responsibility where apropos - the retailer at point of sale, and the parent at point-of-use/consumption.  The problem with gaming is that similar to the tobacco/liquor problem - point of use - NOT point of sale.

[Coagulated]

The restricted-substances issue (tobacco, liquor - especially beer and wine) is directly applicable to gaming, and, if it is going to be enforced, should take the cue from the same other two markets -- both retailer and parents have responsibility where apropos - the retailer at point of sale, and the parent at point-of-use/consumption.  The problem with gaming is that similar to the tobacco/liquor problem - point of use - NOT point of sale.

 

Agreed.

 

You've pretty much just reiterated my point.

 

I do not deny the problem exists with the customer.  They are the people that need educating and who better to do it than their retailer?  I am not saying the POS is obligated to educate customers past "No offense intended, but this game is quite graphic for a youngster..." if they believe a parent is buying an age restricted product for a minor.  My point about retailers educating customers stands as a great piece of Marketing (to increase their sales), not an obligation to educate customers because they sell age restricted products.

 

If someone gives me loads of free information that I find very useful and seems incredibly knowledgeable on a subject, I will build a trust with them.  If they also happen to sell a product related to this free information, I'm more likely to buy it from them.

[WelshBluebird]

Could you post u.r.l. to the law please.

I am very surprised that there are people who do not know that. It has always been the case and until 2012 games were under the same legislation as dvds. So any BBFC 15 or 18 rating was legally binding. In 2012, the PEGI ratings took over and became legally binding.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/jul/30/pegi-video-game-ratings-law

[Athernar]

Retailers do not and should not have any responsibility legally or ethically. That is solely the responsibility of the parent/guardian.

 

Arbitrary age limitations are idiotic as they do not account for disparity in terms of development/maturity and are completely dependant on someone else's perceptions/viewpoints of morality.

 

For instance, should the depiction of sex, a perfectly normal and natural action - incur a higher age rating than violence? Or what about religion material, which is filled with questionable ethics - should they be restricted too?

 

No, what is needed is more parental responsibility and involvement, less scapegoating onto retailers, publishers and developers.

[Knife Party]

My parents had a VHS tape with some German porn (the most popular "type" of porn in USSR) on it that they used to hide from me, but I still always managed to find it! :D

 

One time, in grade 6, I showed it to my best friend and he was literally petrified at sight of female genitalia. He was so scared and shocked that he actually swore to never have sex. (He's now happily married).

 

Nowadays, no 12 year old would find some 80's soft-core porn or rather, erotica, to be shocking because they've already seen everything online and in the Game of Thrones series.

lel :D

[Vandalsquad]

lel :D

 

Swapping magazines between friends that we had stolen off older brothers or fathers that wouldn't notice anyone?  :laugh: . Teens don't realise how easy they have porn now.

[madd-hatter]

I think we need lower age restrictions such as getting rid of the 18 certificate for violent games (keep for sexual content).

 

Generally, I find violence to be much more mentally harmful than sexual content.

 

When a boy hits puberty, he is going to learn a lot about sex through curiosity and the internet. This happens long before 18 and is inevitable.

I managed to do so with dial-up at the time...

[soniqstylz]

Majority of adults don't play play station, xbox or pc games.

 

Not true, the average age of gamers is late 30's.

 

Well, maybe it's backwards, the majority of people playing playstation, xbox, or pc games are adults.

[nvllsvm]

I see no reason retailers should forbid anyone from buying any form of media. I have yet to see any conclusive evidence that voluntary exposure to so-called "inappropriate" media has caused damage to youths on a widespread scale.

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

I wouldn't compare doom, hexen, duke and quake to todays games though.

I care less about the violence aspect of these games for the most part. Doom, hexen, and quake existed outside of realistic world.

 

Duke3D on the other hand, what I'll always remember about it, is that you kill the Cocooned girls to save them and that they beg you to kill them. This whole concept bothered me greatly as a child (7-8 years old). To this day, media that portrays this sort of thing still bothers me.

 

It's adult and mature situations like that that kids shouldn't be seeing. I'd see that as far more important than graphics.

[nvllsvm]

I care less about the violence aspect of these games for the most part. Doom, hexen, and quake existed outside of realistic world.

 

Duke3D on the other hand, what I'll always remember about it, is that you kill the Cocooned girls to save them and that they beg you to kill them. This whole concept bothered me greatly as a child (7-8 years old). To this day, media that portrays this sort of thing still bothers me.

 

It's adult and mature situations like that that kids shouldn't be seeing. I'd see that as far more important than graphics.

 

Why shouldn't kids see adult situations like the one you saw?

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

Why shouldn't kids see adult situations like the one you saw?

This is rather straight forward: developmentally a child is not emotionally equipt to handle adult situations. Studies show that kids who have to deal with adult situations (divorce, boundary issues, playing the role of caregiver/confidante, etc.) are far more likely to end up with numerous psychological issues (among other things). These things have a life long effects on person down to their very relationships.

 

Just to be clear, I am not talking about simple violence. The majority of the games that kids play these days don't have realistic adult situations. It's just shooting and a thin story. For an example otherwise though consider, Farcry 3, young kids probably shouldn't be playing that given Vaas and the situations going on there.

[nvllsvm]

This is rather straight forward: developmentally a child is not emotionally equipt to handle adult situations. Studies show that kids who have to deal with adult situations (divorce, boundary issues, playing the role of caregiver/confidante, etc.) are far more likely to end up with numerous psychological issues (among other things). These things have a life long effects on person down to their very relationships.

 

Just to be clear, I am not talking about simple violence. The majority of the games that kids play these days don't have realistic adult situations. It's just shooting and a thin story. For an example otherwise though consider, Farcry 3, young kids probably shouldn't be playing that given Vaas and the situations going on there.

 

I can understand how involuntary adult situations such as divorce, boundary issues, or playing the role of a caregiver may lead to psychological problems, but what about voluntarily playing a video game? There's a huge difference between voluntary and involuntary...

[timster]

it's not a retailers responsibility to be your child's parent because you can't be bothered to do it yourself.

[cacoe]

I was 15, I went into a Woolworths to buy Thief (2000) which was a 12. They asked me my age, obviously said 15. The staff member wasn't sure and asked someone else to come over and they started staring at me.

 

Uncomfortable.

 

Do you have any ID, they asked (why the hell would I have ID at the age of 15?!)

 

They refused to sell it to me.

 

They didn't even have a legal obligation to not sell it to me at that time, ages on games were just a guideline.

 

Never bought anything from there since and was really thrilled when they went into liquidation in 2009. :)

[spacer]

They are supposed to have the same responsibility that alcohol and cigarette retailers have to not sell to underage people. In other words, it's illegal to sell to them to minors.

 

But as usual, it all comes back to the parents. Ultimately, they are the ones that can and should be enforcing it. But when does that ever happen? Spend 1 minute in any multiplayer game ever, and you'll quickly learn that no parent does it.

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

I can understand how involuntary adult situations such as divorce, boundary issues, or playing the role of a caregiver may lead to psychological problems, but what about voluntarily playing a video game? There's a huge difference between voluntary and involuntary...

How does whether an adult situation is entered voluntarily reflect on whether someone is equipt to handle the situation? Choice has nothing to do with preparation or ones emotional maturity. Choice is really misnomer here anyway, because it is not as of a child is going to know the adult situations that the game entails going in, the same as as how a child does not know the situations that life entails going in. 

[compl3x]

I was 15, I went into a Woolworths to buy Thief (2000) which was a 12. They asked me my age, obviously said 15. The staff member wasn't sure and asked someone else to come over and they started staring at me.

 

Uncomfortable.

 

Do you have any ID, they asked (why the hell would I have ID at the age of 15?!)

 

They refused to sell it to me.

 

They didn't even have a legal obligation to not sell it to me at that time, ages on games were just a guideline.

 

Never bought anything from there since and was really thrilled when they went into liquidation in 2009. :)

 

 

Whoa, Talk about holding a grudge.  :laugh:

[Dotdot]

I was 15, I went into a Woolworths to buy Thief (2000) which was a 12. They asked me my age, obviously said 15. The staff member wasn't sure and asked someone else to come over and they started staring at me.

 

Uncomfortable.

 

Do you have any ID, they asked (why the hell would I have ID at the age of 15?!)

 

They refused to sell it to me.

 

They didn't even have a legal obligation to not sell it to me at that time, ages on games were just a guideline.

 

Never bought anything from there since and was really thrilled when they went into liquidation in 2009. :)

Id rather you held your grudge than, I the person behind the counter lost my job. Better to be on the side of caution than to risk being on the dole for selling to minors?

Also I imagine you no doubt went down the street to a different shop and bought the game there.

[+jamesyfx Subscriber²]

If I had suspicions I would not sell an age restricted product unless that person provided me with ID. Theres no way I'm going to pay a huge fine. I'd rather annoy one person than lose my job and get fined.

 

Where I work we sell a lot of age restricted stuff. Knives, solvents, lasers, games.. etc. So I always think.. No ID, No sale. :p

[srbeen]

I used to rent VHS and DVD's. At that time I couldn't rent a R or 18+ movie, I had to get mom/dad/brother to do it for me. I feel the same should be applied with games. If its not, why is there even a review board? Retail is one thing, but digital downloads really skew the situation.