UPS for home?

[riahc3]

Hello,

Ill review this thread as soon as I start thinking about it and can sit down and order it :)

Thank you for the advice from all ends.

[T3X4S]

APC
Tripp Lite
Panamax

Its like a PSU - if you go with Corsair, Seasonic, Antec - the only way you can go wrong is to get something that cant handle the load.

[riahc3]

Hello,

CyberPower doesnt seem to be a popular brand around here but I did find it on Amazon:

http://eu.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups_systems/intelligent/cp1350eavrlcd.htm

http://www.amazon.es/CyberPower-CP1350EAVRLCD-Fuente-alimentaci%C3%B3n-continua/dp/B0026GO9TY

Price is VERY good (lower than 200 ?). I just want to make sure about this and ESXi/VMs later on.

[+BudMan MVC]

So my CyberPower EC650LCD showed up yesterday.. Plugged it in last night, and then connected it to my esxi host this morning and setup passthru to my ubuntu vm, installed the software and all looks good, minus a bit of issue with the cyberpower software not showing the model info, etc. Odd since the esxi host sees what it is.

So esxi clearly sees the model, etc. But the software is not reporting any of that info, but clearly its talking to it since I ran a test on it and that passed, and shows me battery status and load.. Notice the long runtime.. My n40l has 4 disks in it, and currently 4 different vms running and not really using much power.. 40+ minutes is plenty of runtime - so the 650 is more than enough saved some money over the larger units.

This weekend I will run through setting up the scripts and validate all the vms and host shutdown gracefully on power loss, etc.

Not exactly sure why its not showing the model number, etc. But as long as it can correctly see if ups is on battery or not and kickoff scripts on loss of utility power, etc. Its not a real issue that it doesn't report the model number ;)

If all your going to do is run your esxi host off this ups, you could prob save some money and get the less juice model. Will report back after full test of power loss, etc. and let you know how it goes.

ok this is a bit odd.. lsusb -v shows this for the device

Odd that there is different names reported..

[riahc3]

Hello,

If all your going to do is run your esxi host off this ups, you could prob save some money and get the less juice model. Will report back after full test of power loss, etc. and let you know how it goes.

Well, yeah but right now, Im not gonna have the esxi host (Im thinking of microserver vs DIY, Ill make another thread about that soon) plugged into it, Im gonna have my main PC which has a 600W PSU.

Also right now, at my workplace, I have a APC SmartUPS 1000 which is 670W; It is powering two servers, mostly idle but they are running a MySQL Server, a Apache Tomcat server (on one) and a OpenVPN server with 3 clients connected (on the other). It has a load indicator up front: Out of 5 led indicators, it jumps around the first one and the second one constantly.

These UPS are expensive; I guess its more the batteries than the unit. I mean I have never had problems with disk damage but with a esxi being my DHCP server, I think it would be a good idea to have it always on.

[+Warwagon MVC]

I have 2 of these 1 for my workstation / server downstairs and one for my 70 inch TV  / HTPC

 

CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FBK3QK/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The one on my main workstation I have both my server, workstation, router and 4 monitors. It says I have about 9 mins of up time. (though i'm not exactly sure if all 4 monitors and plugged into the ups... I should throw the breaker and see :D

[+BudMan MVC]

Im not gonna have the esxi host (Im thinking of microserver vs DIY, plugged into it, Im gonna have my main PC which has a 600W PSU.

with a esxi being my DHCP server, I think it would be a good idea to have it always on.

Just because your PC has a 600W power supply does not mean it draws anywhere near that!! My PC plugged into my other bigger cyberpower ups only draws like 90watts when running, and that is even with monitor plugged in, etc.

So here my main monitor is currently off since I am not home and remoted into my main pc (and my 2nd monitor has no reason to on ups and is also currently off), since I am not home but the PC is running and the cable modem is plugged in and 2 switches and this is what its currently drawing.

I would suggest you look to see what kind of load your devices your going to plug in actually use, and then base the size of your ups on that vs the rated max of your powersupply. True when you power up everything you might see a spike, but I highly doubt it would spike to 600Watts, etc.

As to something on your esxi host running dhcp - that has little to do with anything. Only time dhcp is required is handing out leases, then there is a lease time of I would assume hours if not days. So unless you were planning on bringing a device onto the network while you have a power outage there should be little need of dhcp server running. Dhcp clients renew their lease at roughly 50% of the lease time. So lets say you had a short 2 hour lease, and box was going to renew a minute after you lost power and your dhcp server shutdown - its lease would still be good for an hour. Your going to be running for more than an hour after a power outage?

edit: just thought of what else I need to plug into this new ups, my 2 wireless AP.. But that will be like 10watts max for both of them.. So its not going to drastically reduce run time. I will try and load it up later tonight pulling files off my nas vm, and downloading a file to max out my internet pipe to increase load of my pfsense vm.. But to be honest the most I ever saw my microsever N40L pull on my killawatt meter was like 65watts.. So Why would I need to put a 1000+ VA ups on these systems.. They draw nothing, this was the lowest VA unit that I saw that had LCD, the 550 does not have a LCD or that would of worked as well. But it was less than a dollar difference in cost ;)

[riahc3]

Hello,

I have 2 of these 1 for my workstation / server downstairs and one for my 70 inch TV  / HTPC

 

CyberPower CP1500AVRLCD

The one on my main workstation I have both my server, workstation, router and 4 monitors. It says I have about 9 mins of up time. (though i'm not exactly sure if all 4 monitors and plugged into the ups... I should throw the breaker and see :D

Only one I could find on Google shopping from Cyberpower.......and its sold out :laugh:

 

 

Just because your PC has a 600W power supply does not mean it draws anywhere near that!!

Of course not; I also do not do any heavy gaming (TF2 or L4D2 at most for 6 hours). I thought someone told me that I needed a UPS that was equivilent to what my system could draw (which is 600W)

I would suggest you look to see what kind of load your devices your going to plug in actually use, and then base the size of your ups on that vs the rated max of your powersupply. True when you power up everything you might see a spike, but I highly doubt it would spike to 600Watts, etc.

The devices (right now) would be the 600W PSU PC, a switch, a router, a modem, and my display. I dont think I need a printer or my mouse charger while trying to shutdown my PC if I expect a long power outage...

As to something on your esxi host running dhcp - that has little to do with anything. Only time dhcp is required is handing out leases, then there is a lease time of I would assume hours if not days. So unless you were planning on bringing a device onto the network while you have a power outage there should be little need of dhcp server running. Dhcp clients renew their lease at roughly 50% of the lease time. So lets say you had a short 2 hour lease, and box was going to renew a minute after you lost power and your dhcp server shutdown - its lease would still be good for an hour. Your going to be running for more than an hour after a power outage?

I incorrectly referred to just being my DHCP server; I would run pfSense which is basically my gateway to the internet (literally) so besides DHCP going down (which after your explanation makes sense that it doesnt matter) wouldnt routing and DNS lookups be affected too???

[+BudMan MVC]

Well yeah if your pfsense is going to be on your esxi host, then yes it would need to be running if you want to still use internet while power is out ;)

This is exactly why I finally got around to putting mine on one.. Your thread got me thinking about it again. And where my devices are currently located I can not leverage my PC ups.. So when you brought it up, I did a bit of research for how cheap I could do it.. And since only about $50 why and the hell not ;)

So off my bigger ups run my main PC, main monitor and cable modem and switches. On this new smaller ups will run my esxi host, my 2 AP and my raspberrypi just because it draws nothing and why not its sitting right there next to my esxi host.

So on power outage will still have internet, just not use of second monitor, printer (unless it was some low power deskjet I don't think its good idea to plug printers into surge or ups?? Have to look into that - but my laserjet draws bit of juice when it kicks on the fuser, the new color one is much more power friendly then my OLD one but no real use to have that on ups) or speakers.. I would estimate for prob 30 minutes or so before everything should shutdown to make sure don't run out of battery.

Now one thing to keep in mind.. I don't believe the personal edition powerpanel software for windows has any options to kickoff scripts. So if your going to just have 1 ups for all your networking/pc stuff and plugging your ups into windows you will most likely want a cyberpower that has the PFC in the model number. From what I have read the PFCs work with the business powerpanel software and this does allow for kicking off scripts, so you could shutdown your esxi host and vms remotely.

What I thought - quick google

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/10-things-you-should-know-about-deploying-a-ups/#.

# 6: A UPS shouldn't power a laser printer

Printing may prove a critical task, such as within billing or credit departments, but don't rely upon a UPS to power a laser printer. Even if the UPS is being used only to condition the electrical supply a laser printer receives, when attached to battery backup outlets on the UPS, laser printers quickly overpower a UPS and exceed standard load levels. The quickest way to generate multiple load level warnings and alerts (and potentially damage UPS electronics) is to power a laser printer using a UPS.

Why? A laser printer's fuser (which melts printer toner applied to paper) consumes a quick burst of energy. Most UPS models simply can't supply the required power as quickly as the laser printer demands.

---

Now its possible my new color LED laser might not be so bad, I now in standby it only uses <1W, but don't see the reason for it to be on my ups.. What could you be printing at home that could not wait until you have power back ;) But surfing the net is something to do while the power it out ;) hehehe

[riahc3]

Hello,

This is exactly why I finally got around to putting mine on one.. Your thread got me thinking about it again. And where my devices are currently located I can not leverage my PC ups.. So when you brought it up, I did a bit of research for how cheap I could do it.. And since only about $50 why and the hell not ;)

Wow I gotta bookmark this; I actually gave YOU a good idea :laugh:

Personally (to me), its the same thing as the DHCP server you said: I really dont need internet when having a long power outage, I just need enough to power off the VMs and the ESXi itself. But you might be hosting other services that might need 24/7 internet access using a backup 3G stick or something. God knows what your twisted lab is like :laugh:

So off my bigger ups run my main PC, main monitor and cable modem and switches. On this new smaller ups will run my esxi host, my 2 AP and my raspberrypi just because it draws nothing and why not its sitting right there next to my esxi host.

I dont see the need for two because my main PC (would hold) basically nothing and we've had several power outages and it has survived thanks to the surge protector. I would move that RAID in my main PC over to the Windows Server 2012 and use StableBit DrivePool like you mentioned in past threads to a VM in the ESXi host.

So on power outage will still have internet, just not use of second monitor, printer (unless it was some low power deskjet I don't think its good idea to plug printers into surge or ups?? Have to look into that - but my laserjet draws bit of juice when it kicks on the fuser, the new color one is much more power friendly then my OLD one but no real use to have that on ups) or speakers.. I would estimate for prob 30 minutes or so before everything should shutdown to make sure don't run out of battery.

I did not know that about printers. Im getting up right now before hitting post to check on my work's printers. They should be ok connected just to a surge protector right?

Just checked and they are connected to a basic multiplier.

Now one thing to keep in mind.. I don't believe the personal edition powerpanel software for windows has any options to kickoff scripts. So if your going to just have 1 ups for all your networking/pc stuff and plugging your ups into windows you will most likely want a cyberpower that has the PFC in the model number. From what I have read the PFCs work with the business powerpanel software and this does allow for kicking off scripts, so you could shutdown your esxi host and vms remotely.

One of the links you put here said that even though they arent supported they work...or was it that only the PFC models worked :s Hmmm...

Look at the difference

You guys have: http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/pfc-sinewave-series.html (7)

I have: http://www.cyberpower-eu.com/products/ups_systems/pfc-sinewave/pfc.htm (3)

:(

There is: http://www.amazon.es/CyberPower-CP900EPFCLCD-Fuente-alimentaci%C3%B3n-continua/dp/B004SO5FWM but thats it...

[+BudMan MVC]

The way I read the link was the PFC models do work, but that they do is not really supported by cyberpower. So if you have issues with the business software not doing something with your PFC model ups you would not be able to call the company and say hey this doesn't do this -- they would reply with, sorry business version is only supported on models XYZ, etc.

What I can tell you for sure is the business version of the software does NOT work with my UPS CP1350AVRLCD, but it does not have PFC in the model number.

Its not that you gave me a good idea ;) Its that you reminded me of something I should of done a long time ago -- hehehehe

As to internet working while power is out.. We normally don't have long power outages here, no I would never serve anything to to the public off my ###### home connection. Stuff that I want the public to have access too is on a host.. But it will be nice to say be able to surf for 20 minutes or so on a power outage - if lucky it will be backon before batteries shut it down ;)

[riahc3]

Hello,

Its not that you gave me a good idea ;) Its that you reminded me of something I should of done a long time ago -- hehehehe

Well it was my idea to remind you. So there :p

The way I read the link was the PFC models do work, but that they do is not really supported by cyberpower. So if you have issues with the business software not doing something with your PFC model ups you would not be able to call the company and say hey this doesn't do this -- they would reply with, sorry business version is only supported on models XYZ, etc.

Oh OK. Yup, reread it and correct.

He used the CyberPower CP1350PFCLCD while Im looking at the CP900EPFCLCD. While they seem to be the same (tech, I know VAs are lower) there is a E (which I just imagine stands for Europe) in there so...

Im gonna try to contact him and see if he thinks it will work.

What I can tell you for sure is the business version of the software does NOT work with my UPS CP1350AVRLCD, but it does not have PFC in the model number.

Noted.

As to internet working while power is out.. We normally don't have long power outages here, no I would never serve anything to to the public off my ****ty home connection. Stuff that I want the public to have access too is on a host.. But it will be nice to say be able to surf for 20 minutes or so on a power outage - if lucky it will be backon before batteries shut it down ;)

I mean, its the same here as in not having long power outages. Ive been living in my house for about 8 years and at most what a 20 minute power outage? What most happens is the circuit breaker jumps and noone is at my house all day so....thats the most power outage that can happen at my house...

[Squirrelington]

It comes up everytime someone mentions UPS when talking about battery backups.

UPS systems from what I've gathered over the past arguments on here basically runs all the time not only when there is a power failure. When the power does fail the system keeps on running (no switching to batteries as that micro .2 seconds is not good for some systems). If the power doesn't come back then generators kick in the continue charging the batteries which keep feeding the building. The "uninterruptable" portion comes from the fact it doesn't deliver power from the grid directly, only from it's batteries which are constantly charging via the grid or generator.

So let's just make it be known that we are talking about UPS devices here from APC or CyberPower which are Battery Backup devices. From here on, UPS shall refer to battery backups

-----

Back on topic now :p

 

Basically this, we have an LP generator at work that is basically an Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) but not a Battery Backup. Battery Backup is a form a UPS but not the only form.

 

That said I have a small APC UPS Battery Backup on my low-power VIA linux box at home and a nice fancy APC one at work. They both work extremely well and I like the little details it gives over the data connection. Last time I lost power at my house the backup lasted about 38 minutes with the computer and an led night light hooked up.

[+BudMan MVC]

Basically this, we have an LP generator at work that is basically an Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) but not a Battery Backup. Battery Backup is a form a UPS but not the only form.

But I have to assume there is some batteries involved in this setup.. Last company worked for where I was involved in that sort of thing for the computer room. We too had a generator, diesel in our case. But there was also a bank of batteries as well.

Now way it was suppose to work is the batteries were only needed long enough for the generator to kick in. But if for some reason the generator failed to start the batteries could provide some time to get it going or shutdown the machines.

Unless your generator is running already, there has to be something to supply power while it turns on - even if that was only 30 seconds, etc. I have never seen a UPS that did not involve batteries.

[Squirrelington]

I do not know the internals but I would suspect you may be right, that there are some batteries to hold over until the generator kicks in. I don't usually walk into the back of the building and check to see if the generator is on or not but it would seem inefficient to always be running.

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

I do not know the internals but I would suspect you may be right, that there are some batteries to hold over until the generator kicks in. I don't usually walk into the back of the building and check to see if the generator is on or not but it would seem inefficient to always be running.

Could just be pre-charged caps used for the hold over.

[+BudMan MVC]

Some big ass caps ;)

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

Some big ass caps ;)

supercaps really, not caps per-say.

[+BudMan MVC]

Still when it comes down too it a battery ;) Be it a cap, supercap, be it a lead-acid, molten salt, lithium, etc. I was not aware these were in actual use yet. I have heard that they may replace the normal batteries in electronics at some point.

Are they actually in use in UPS of some sort? Thought part of the problem was discharge time?

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

Still when it comes down too it a battery ;) Be it a cap, supercap, be it a lead-acid, molten salt, lithium, etc. I was not aware these were in actual use yet. I have heard that they may replace the normal batteries in electronics at some point.

Are they actually in use in UPS of some sort? Thought part of the problem was discharge time?

Oh I have no idea if they'd ever be applied to such an application. Super-caps can start cars or be used as an alternative to a home backup battery so there's no theoretical reason why they couldn't be applied to jump start a generator.

[+BudMan MVC]

Not talking about starting the generator, talking about supplying the computers and switches and all the networking stuff required for a computer room or datacenter while the generator starts up.

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

Not talking about starting the generator, talking about supplying the computers and switches and all the networking stuff required for a computer room or datacenter while the generator starts up.

Oh I see, I was not paying enough attention. Yeah, you'd never use a super-cap in that situation, it doesn't have a large enough capacity. 

[n_K]

You wouldn't be using supercapacitors for that, they're very expensive, much bigger than a bettery, and leak charge plus not all energy you put into them is recoverable.

They will be using batteries.

[riahc3]

Hello,

Im gonna take the plunge on that CP900EPFCLCD next week (no word on the author of the article). If I remember Ill problably post a review.

[Praetor]

hi,

 

i work with APC UPS for years and must say they are great; reliable but not so cheap. The software (Powerchute, in the various versions it exists) could also be improved, but for most users it does his job very well.

 

The only downside from owning a UPS is the duration of the battery: the more it's used (power surges, instable line) the less it will last and the price of them is almost the same of a new UPS :/