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#106 xpablo

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 22:38

Learn C first, that should be a must, then upgrade to C++, then move on from there. Understanding programming also requires logical thinking, I tried my stint in college at programming wasn't very good, just not my cup of tea per se, I switched to computer networking and excelled at that. After college I got a good job using my networking and computer hardware skills, while most of my fellow classmates from programming ended up getting jobs as web programmers and not making much money at it.

 

But anyhow in College we were taught C first, then old school Assembler Language. From what I've seen on Python looks to be easy too.




#107 +LambdaLambdaLambdaFn

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 22:42

One one thought, actually... If "programming" isn't your thing but you want to do something computer programming-esque, you might like database.  That's not to say that won't require any programming skills, it will, but the programming is much simpler, and being a DBA is often more lucrative than programming.



#108 Xilo

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 22:44

 
 

Learn C first, that should be a must, then upgrade to C++, then move on from there. Understanding programming also requires logical thinking, I tried my stint in college at programming wasn't very good, just not my cup of tea per se, I switched to computer networking and excelled at that. After college I got a good job using my networking and computer hardware skills, while most of my fellow classmates from programming ended up getting jobs as web programmers and not making much money at it.

 

But anyhow in College we were taught C first, then old school Assembler Language. From what I've seen on Python looks to be easy too.

You can learn logic in any language.

 

I'm highly against people who say "learn C then move to C++". It's the most archaic form of thinking in the programming world. Because C is so bare bones, it's very easy to get frustrated having to roll your own functions for almost everything and it takes away from the learning and more importantly the fun aspect of programming for a lot of people.

 

A more modern language with a robust library would be better. You don't have to worry about missing functionality that you'd expect to be there, and they are much better for stepping stones. C is 'oh i want to do XYZ, but C doesn't have XYZ function, so I have to learn how to do XYZ with the available libraries'. However, in modern language it's more of 'oh I want to do XYZ so i will use ABC function. now that I've learned more programming, how about i create my own version of ABC for fun.'



#109 riahc3

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 22:46

Hello,

Learn C first, that should be a must, then upgrade to C++, then move on from there. Understanding programming also requires logical thinking, I tried my stint in college at programming wasn't very good, just not my cup of tea per se, I switched to computer networking and excelled at that. After college I got a good job using my networking and computer hardware skills, while most of my fellow classmates from programming ended up getting jobs as web programmers and not making much money at it.
 
But anyhow in College we were taught C first, then old school Assembler Language. From what I've seen on Python looks to be easy too.

This is typical college; Both C (unless you are getting in certain areas) and most certain assembly get you nothing in the real work. Everything today is OOP. C shows you the base of programming but that's it.

Python like I said about 5 times already is more of a scripting language. Not that that's a bad thing or good but I think complied would be better.

BTW, we have completely gone off topic. I suggest heavy editing to this thread to focus on what OP wanted and we can see his code...

One one thought, actually... If "programming" isn't your thing but you want to do something computer programming-esque, you might like database.  That's not to say that won't require any programming skills, it will, but the programming is much simpler, and being a DBA is often more lucrative than programming.

DBA has its logical thinking problem. Its way more difficult on the brain than "Hello World" I highly suggest he doesn't get in to this world. I laughed when he mentioned that the only thing he knows about SQL is exploiting databases...

#110 +snaphat (Myles Landwehr)

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 22:59

Gotta respectfully disagree here.  Very few C++ programs have no C in them, rightly or wrongly, and C++ is an absolute must of any professional programmer.

If you think most professional programmers are doing low-level programming, you are mistaken. The gaming industry is what percentage of programmer jobs? It would be like me arguing that C is prevalent for professional programmers because it is primarily used in HPC (it IS but I'm not under the illusion that the rest of the industry typically uses it). At the undergraduate university level, they've stopped requiring C in a number of universities (Delaware, Rice, MIT...) -- you learn it as an elective if you choose to take specific courses. Why? Because businesses who are looking for new recruits want higher level languages in applicant resumes because high level languages drastically shortens development time and effort and simplify the software engineering and design aspects inherit with large scale projects. When I was an undergraduate, we used C, but now intro courses are done in python and the higher level courses are Java based unless you are doing systems programming. That's the shift I've seen in the last 5 years.

 

 

Gotta respectfully disagree with this one, too.  I worked at a college in Toronto that taught OOP in its first year intro to programming course, and zero structured.  First semester included polymorphism and operator overloading and the like (again, rightly or wrongly), but not multiple inheritance.

That's simply bad practice unless it was advanced topics covered after the fundamentals -- then I can see that being case.

 

 

Hello,
This is typical college; Both C (unless you are getting in certain areas) and most certain assembly get you nothing in the real work. Everything today is OOP. C shows you the base of programming but that's it.

Universities are starting to migrate away from C for that reason from what I've seen



#111 Max Norris

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 23:03

This is typical college; Both C (unless you are getting in certain areas) and most certain assembly get you nothing in the real work. Everything today is OOP. C shows you the base of programming but that's it.

Shoot I wish they taught me C when I was in college.. back then it was CoBOL and RPG (this was late 70's), you can guess how useful that was in the real world. Best money I wish I never spent. But nowadays, I rarely touch C either, for my "typical application", can be much more productive elsewhere and finish in a fraction of the time. (Languages evolve for a reason..) That said, to the OP, C# is a solid pick personally.

Somewhat disagree about Python though -- for me anyway, it really depends on the situation, sometimes it's absurdly handy for banging out code quickly and reliably, and it's very flexible. I've done some fairly complex things with it, and there are real world examples that concur. Most certainly situational though.. it definitely wouldn't be my first pick for anything with a GUI or is processor intense for example. But for learning? Absolutely, has all sorts of modern elements, it's interactive so you can even mess with it in real time, buckets of support/documentation, very easy to read, no reinventing wheels every time you want to do something (a library probably exists for it), runs on everything, etc.

#112 Kalint

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 23:11

How did a rant on trying to learn 5 languages at once turn into 8 pages...



#113 +snaphat (Myles Landwehr)

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 23:17

How did a rant on trying to learn 5 languages at once turn into 8 pages...

Because the topic turned to what language a new programmer should learn and everyone disagrees. The OP has decided to learn C# and last asked for information about what is meant by programming fundamentals and I gave him links that discuss some basic C# concepts and control mechanisms. That's where the OP is at right now from my understanding.



#114 +LambdaLambdaLambdaFn

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 23:18

How did a rant on trying to learn 5 languages at once turn into 8 pages...

 

Welcome to the Internet.



#115 xpablo

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 23:51

I leave it up to the experts, I'm not a programmer.  or am I because I know HTML :woot: . I actually had somebody tell me that once, that they were a programmer because they knew HTML and some Javascript.  :/ 



#116 riahc3

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:51

Hello,

Universities are starting to migrate away from C for that reason from what I've seen

About time.
 
 

Shoot I wish they taught me C when I was in college.. back then it was CoBOL and RPG (this was late 70's), you can guess how useful that was in the real world.

AFAIK, C, Cobol, and Pascal were typical first time programming. I was first taught Pascal.


But nowadays, I rarely touch C either, for my "typical application", can be much more productive elsewhere and finish in a fraction of the time. (Languages evolve for a reason..) That said, to the OP, C# is a solid pick personally.

I mean I personally think its a shame C is the state it is in but at the end of the day time is money and most of what you want to do, can be done in a newer, modern, and faster language.


Somewhat disagree about Python though

Python was made as a scripting language so Im commenting from its intention purpose and goal. There are awesome Python programs that I was surprised to be written in Python so......I have no problem with Python. Might be something I do today: Try out Python :)
 
 

How did a rant on trying to learn 5 languages at once turn into 8 pages...

Well, a lot got lost on the way to helping OP.....
 
 

I leave it up to the experts, I'm not a programmer.  or am I because I know HTML :woot: . I actually had somebody tell me that once, that they were a programmer because they knew HTML and some Javascript.  :/

You are a expert at web designing. I work with HTML, JavaScript, PHP and Java on a daily basis. I hate both Java(family) and if I would have to pick between HTML and PHP, Id pick AJAX :p (hate JavaScript, love PHP)

#117 Jarrichvdv

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:02

Hello,
I read this thinking "this guy has never programmed a large scale project then I read:


And I laugh :laugh: Do you even know what pseudo code is?
 
 

 

Calm down there, kiddo. No need to offend others.

I do what I say I do as a daily job; and I've seen extraordinary large projects. Pseudo code is only used when teaching programming. Most of the projects I've worked on we used a lot of analysis (functional analysis, business analysis etc) but never were functions etc written out in pseudo code.

Try to not jump to assumptions next time.



#118 OP ShellBox

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 09:30

Gotta respectfully disagree here.  Very few C++ programs have no C in them, rightly or wrongly, and C++ is an absolute must of any professional programmer.

 

As for whether C/C++ is a good starting point?  That's a debate that I won't wade into because it can go on forever.


 

Gotta respectfully disagree with this one, too.  I worked at a college in Toronto that taught OOP in its first year intro to programming course, and zero structured.  First semester included polymorphism and operator overloading and the like (again, rightly or wrongly), but not multiple inheritance.

 

I do actually have a book on C++ but I don't really understand much of it because it seems quite confusing and hard although C++ is one of my main goals. 

 

I'm getting seriously confused with all these libraries and polymorphism and memory allocating and whatnot.



#119 riahc3

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 09:32

Hello,

I do actually have a book on C++ but I don't really understand much of it because it seems quite confusing and hard although C++ is one of my main goals. 
 
I'm getting seriously confused with all these libraries and polymorphism and memory allocating and whatnot.

Ignore everything else said in this thread and stick with your choice of C#.

Have you done anything? Do you have any questions? Please post code.

#120 OP ShellBox

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 09:47

Hello,
Ignore everything else said in this thread and stick with your choice of C#.

Have you done anything? Do you have any questions? Please post code.

 

I've found an eBook which is kind of useful (Heads First C# 3rd edition) and they do explain things but still not what I need. I'm just curious to what polymorphism and memory allocating and everything in this thread means. 

I'm updating the OP with the VB code I wrote. I'm gonna try to convert it into C# and see what comes from it.


I can't update the OP so I'll do it here.

 

 

Public Class frmNightclub

 
 
    Private Sub btnOkay_Click(ByVal sender As System.Object, ByVal e As System.EventArgs) Handles btnOkay.Click
        Dim myAge As Integer
        Dim myGender As String
 
        myAge = nudUpdown.Value
 
        If rdbFemale.Checked = True Then
            myGender = "Female"
        Else
            myGender = "Male"
        End If
 
 
        MsgBox("This person is " & myAge & " And " & myGender)