Major Nelson: Both PS4/Xbox One will "sell a ton", online hate "needs to go away"

[BajiRav]

Ordinary YouTube channels make money from channel views and subscribers, they put up a video and YouTube selects a product to advertise on their channel in the form of an ad bar or video before the video you actually wanted to watch starts.

Are you trying to say something?

[trooper11]

While I will agree on the ignore aspect, as I actually have a one or two members in this thread on ignore and it serves its purpose, I absolutely am not in agreement that they should also not be reported. If a member continually insists on perpetuating a negative environment, then by all means report them.

....

 

The fact some websites have now had to disable comments completely is just one repercussion of it all, and we will continue to see more and more solutions along those lines. I know this is going to be absolute crazy talk to plenty of people, but I am actually starting to think the only solution is not to allow people to hide behind a screen name and that every action online should be under one's real name. I do not think that would ever eliminate the problem completely, but it sure as hell may make some people think twice before being such a douchebag, that's for sure.

Great post, you sum up my feelings on it perfectly. This has been a problem brewing for years.

By the way, just a little correction. I was saying that those people do need to be reported. That's a great weapon against them that does not result in a thread that spirals out of control.

I agree that the real name thing could really help, its just too bad that the bad apples have to ruin it for everyone else. All it takes is some self control and responsibility, but there is something about anonymity that makes them forget about all of that.

[Athernar]

All it takes is some self control and responsibility

 

If moderating tone was the answer to the problem, then the problem would have been largely solved a decade ago.

 

Just look at the number of times Neowin has cracked down on this section, and yet the "problem" persists.

 

The solution is not in moderating tone but moderating content, start punishing the people who wade in with stupid arguments, marketing speak, poorly parroted technical points, etc.

 

What was it, ~6 months ago?  The Xbox One was going to be all mighty where every game renders 4k @ 120fps because of "THE INFINITE POWER OF THE CLOUD". And yet here we are today, and I haven't heard a single peep of anything cloud beyond the game streaming stuff. Mmm, so much for that.

 

Cleaning up the quality of the arguments means less reasons for them to devolve in the first place, better arguments attract better posters.

[NightmarE D]

Remember the days when people bought consoles to just play and enjoy games?

Now it's all about whining about which system is more powerful or the trolls that buy them to do nothing but sit on their asses all day and harass the hell out of people in multiplayer games. I rarely jump into any multiplayer game these days and if I do I usually have to mute at some point. I think the last time I really enjoyed multiplayer without any trolling was Doom 3 and Crimson Skies on the original xbox. Tried some Mortal Kombat Komplete Edition and Tekken Revolution the other day and heard nothing but screaming because the other person couldn't play for crap and kept losing. I have a 4 year old Autistic son and even he looked towards the TV with a look on his face like he was thinking: "That person needs Jesus".

Gaming these days is a joke unless it's only with people you actually know who are in it to actually enjoy the game.

[trooper11]

If moderating tone was the answer to the problem, then the problem would have been largely solved a decade ago.

 

Just look at the number of times Neowin has cracked down on this section, and yet the "problem" persists.

 

The solution is not in moderating tone but moderating content, start punishing the people who wade in with stupid arguments, marketing speak, poorly parroted technical points, etc.

 

What was it, ~6 months ago?  The Xbox One was going to be all mighty where every game renders 4k @ 120fps because of "THE INFINITE POWER OF THE CLOUD". And yet here we are today, and I haven't heard a single peep of anything cloud beyond the game streaming stuff. Mmm, so much for that.

 

Cleaning up the quality of the arguments means less reasons for them to devolve in the first place, better arguments attract better posters.

Luckily I wasn't around yet to live through that. Cooler heads are around now it seems. Although issues still pop up to defend Sony, defend MS, or someone else with ridiculous ideas or points.

Although, I would probably refrain from digging up old points, even if its an example.

I wasn't suggesting moderation of tone. I am saying that sometimes the problem is tone. Sometimes, a person will make a post that is clearly a dig, but its wrapped around some real facts. So you can't just blast it for lacking credible content.

Besides, if you want to moderate content, then start reporting it. Best thing to do. Unfortunately, the bad apples wont moderate themselves.

[Athernar]

I wasn't suggesting moderation of tone. I am saying that sometimes the problem is tone. Sometimes, a person will make a post that is clearly a dig, but its wrapped around some real facts. So you can't just blast it for lacking credible content.

Besides, if you want to moderate content, then start reporting it. Best thing to do. Unfortunately, the bad apples wont moderate themselves.

 

Saying the problem is tone implies the solution is moderating it, which is what I disagree with. Ultimately it doesn't matter if the person's point is a dig or not, what matters is the validity of what they have to say.

 

Reporting bad content is pointless on Neowin since the policy here is to care only about tone, otherwise certain sections of these forums wouldn't be populated with extremists and wingnuts.

 

You can dress anything up nicely and make yourself seem "tolerant", even if you're dressing up bigotry.

 

Look at it this way, would you rather have people that post meaningless marketing speak as fact while towing the line in tone, or people that cut the crap and get to the truth? Personally I'd rather have the latter - but that's just me.

 

Anyhow, I've stated my part here.

[trooper11]

Saying the problem is tone implies the solution is moderating it, which is what I disagree with. Ultimately it doesn't matter if the person's point is a dig or not, what matters is the validity of what they have to say.

 

Reporting bad content is pointless on Neowin since the policy here is to care only about tone, otherwise certain sections of these forums wouldn't be populated with extremists and wingnuts.

 

You can dress anything up nicely and make yourself seem "tolerant", even if you're dressing up bigotry.

 

Look at it this way, would you rather have people that post meaningless marketing speak as fact while towing the line in tone, or people that cut the crap and get to the truth? Personally I'd rather have the latter - but that's just me.

 

Anyhow, I've stated my part here.

Why is it you make it sound like that having a better tone negates your chance to state the truth? I say do both, is that so hard? Better tone doesn't mean say something bad in a nice way....

I mean seriously, why is it that the only choices are post something meaningless in a nice way or 'cut the crap' to say something meaningful. I prefer the third option where you share the truth without the extra bs. 'Cut the crap' to me means that you don't play the game of making 'cute' remarks wrapped around the truth. A better tone and the truth go great together.

As far as the moderators not checking for content, I wasn't aware of that. Not much I can say since I'm not a mod. All I do know is that lately, I have gotten a different impression about what mods will or won't moderate, so maybe they have changed from what you know about it.

I agree with your point though, if someone is spreading silly points that are clearly incorrect, it should be reported and moderated. What we can do is ignore those people. If we see the silly stuff, we report it and maybe post correct info once in that thread. Doing anything more than that is risking a 100 page thread of nothing.

[Athernar]

Why is it you make it sound like that having a better tone negates your chance to state the truth? I say do both, is that so hard? Better tone doesn't mean say something bad in a nice way....

I mean seriously, why is it that the only choices are post something meaningless in a nice way or 'cut the crap' to say something meaningful. I prefer the third option where you share the truth without the extra bs. 'Cut the crap' to me means that you don't play the game of making 'cute' remarks wrapped around the truth. A better tone and the truth go great together.

As far as the moderators not checking for content, I wasn't aware of that. Not much I can say since I'm not a mod. All I do know is that lately, I have gotten a different impression about what mods will or won't moderate, so maybe they have changed from what you know about it.

I agree with your point though, if someone is spreading silly points that are clearly incorrect, it should be reported and moderated. What we can do is ignore those people. If we see the silly stuff, we report it and maybe post correct info once in that thread. Doing anything more than that is risking a 100 page thread of nothing.

 

Because simply put, the truth hurts - and this forum is full of people that have tied up their corporate allegiances with their feelings and calling people on their nonsense no matter how nicely you put it hurts feelings.

 

At the very least, Toxx clauses would be hugely helpful in clearing up this section.

[trooper11]

Because simply put, the truth hurts - and this forum is full of people that have tied up their corporate allegiances with their feelings and calling people on their nonsense no matter how nicely you put it hurts feelings.

 

At the very least, Toxx clauses would be hugely helpful in clearing up this section.

Fair points.

I'm just saying that while the truth can hurt, if we ignore the fact that truth can be mixed in with attempts to be a troll or cause an argument, well not much will change. As long as we try to just deal with pieces and not the whole package, it will remain the same.

I was thinking about your content moderation idea. That's got to be pretty hard from a mod stand point. Having to arbitrate over which facts are true could get tough. The easy ones are the clear exaggerations, but there would be tougher ones.

But this problem is not isolated to this site. Its all over the place. Its nearly impossible to find a community that doesn't get infected by it unless its a rather small and very connected group that know each other well.

[Athernar]

Fair points.

I'm just saying that while the truth can hurt, if we ignore the fact that truth can be mixed in with attempts to be a troll or cause an argument, well not much will change. As long as we try to just deal with pieces and not the whole package, it will remain the same.

I was thinking about your content moderation idea. That's got to be pretty hard from a mod stand point. Having to arbitrate over which facts are true could get tough. The easy ones are the clear exaggerations, but there would be tougher ones.

But this problem is not isolated to this site. Its all over the place. Its nearly impossible to find a community that doesn't get infected by it unless its a rather small and very connected group that know each other well.

 

It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to mop up the majority of glaring cases. Which is entirely what this forum needs, I don't think the "nitty gritty" type of discussion ever manages to take place because the thread is usually already derailed from someone claiming absurdities like higher ping = better or whatnot.

[trooper11]

It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to mop up the majority of glaring cases. Which is entirely what this forum needs, I don't think the "nitty gritty" type of discussion ever manages to take place because the thread is usually already derailed from someone claiming absurdities like higher ping = better or whatnot.

That's true, often useful discussion are lost in the process of trying to deal with one silly point.

I guess most places don't try to do that because it seems like a daunting task, but I think its worth consideration.

[GotBored]

Are you trying to say something?

 

You asked how we think ordinary people make money on YouTube and I gave you an answer, can you elaborate on what part you found difficult to understand? As it seems fairly clear to me.