Microsoft to offer $3 per 1000 YouTube views if you promote Xbox One?

[George P Global Moderator]

So, here you go.

http://reconxbl.blogspot.de/2014/01/why-i-leaked-xb1m13-agreement.html

This isn't a MS deal directly and the same agreement has been used in the past by Machinima to promote E3, PAX and so on, but now everyone going crazy because MS and the Xbox One is in the mix? Where were all the self-righteous people back when all those other promotions were going on?

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/21/5331430/microsoft-machinima-xbox-one-youtube-promotions-response

Official statement here, if some part of the agreement was off it's with Machinima to sort out.

[BajiRav]

Oh and Ars updated their article:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/01/stealth-marketing-microsoft-paying-youtubers-for-xbox-one-mentions/

The update is pretty darn important here because it makes two points:

1. MS apparently had no knowledge or control of the program in question or its terms. Machinima bares all of that responsibility.

2. They explicitly say that the Machinima terms do not bar casters from mentioning that the promotion exists, only to the specific terms of their deal. That's sort of how I was interpreting it earlier, but now that they are confirming that point, that at least makes it sound like casters were, in fact, allowed to tell their viewers in some way about participating in a promotion.

So, these could just be lies, but if we take them at face value, then they clear things up a little. It still leaves the problem of casters actually disclosing things.

If you read the original agreement text, it was pretty clear that the confidentiality applied to the agreement. I don't think they lied in any way but hating on Microsoft/Xbox One is in fashion these days and so is taking moral high ground over trivial business terms.

Here is an excerpt from a pastebin ars linked. I think this is what made most people raise their eyebrows.

 

5. CONFIDENTIALITY

You agree to keep confidential at all times all matters relating to this Agreement, including, without limitation, the Promotional Requirements, and the CPM Compensation, listed above.  You understand that You may not post a copy of this Agreement or any terms thereof online or share them with any third party (other than a legal or financial representative).  You agree that You have read the Nondisclosure Agreement (attached hereto and marked as Exhibit ?A?) and You understand and agree to all of terms of the Nondisclosure Agreement, which is incorporated as part of this Agreement.

IANAL but it is pretty straight forward in its meaning.

[trooper11]

It also occurs to me that one little thing Machinima could have done to avoid this controversy is to include in their terms that casters were required to mention that they were participating in a promotion. They don't have to talk details to do that. In the US, its now the law, so any casters that originate in the US must comply. Outside the US, well that's another matter.

They are claiming that casters were not being barred from doing just that, but since they did not require it, that meant that casters might not do it and then it blows up like this.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

So, here you go.

http://reconxbl.blogspot.de/2014/01/why-i-leaked-xb1m13-agreement.html

 

 

Love the line, "So are we supposed to boycott E3, PAX and Comic-Con now, or what?". No, you boycott Machinima like any sensible gamer did years ago (Y) Worst.network.ever.

[BajiRav]

Love the line, "So are we supposed to boycott E3, PAX and Comic-Con now, or what?". No, you boycott Machinima like any sensible gamer did years ago (Y) Worst.network.ever.

I have no reason to hate or boycott them. I enjoyed watching Forward Unto Dawn when it came out.

[trooper11]

Love the line, "So are we supposed to boycott E3, PAX and Comic-Con now, or what?". No, you boycott Machinima like any sensible gamer did years ago (Y) Worst.network.ever.

Hey now, some gamers simply don't know any better :laugh:

I have to admit, I have watched some videos that are part of their network without even realizing it just because it was funny. Its usually videos about glitches in games or 'funny things to do' in various games.

I also watched some of the live action series like Mortal Kombat

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I have no reason to hate or boycott them. I enjoyed watching Forward Unto Dawn when it came out.

 

I liked it too, but they had nothing to do with the production of it. Only temporary broadcast rights. They no longer have the show on their network and haven't since the BR/DVD came out.

 

 

 

Hey now, some gamers simply don't know any better :laugh:

I have to admit, I have watched some videos that are part of their network without even realizing it just because it was funny. Its usually videos about glitches in games or 'funny things to do' in various games.

I also watched some of the live action series like Mortal Kombat

 

Again, nothing against some of the channels who partner with them. If anything I feel sorry for them because they've been sucked up by a monster. RvB was with Machinima and they've had some good shows over the years. But they also have a horrible business practise which kills channels and personalities.

 

Thank god Rooster Teeth left them (Y)

[BajiRav]

I liked it too, but they had nothing to do with the production of it. Only temporary broadcast rights. They no longer have the show on their network and haven't since the BR/DVD came out.

 

 That's why I said "when it came out". As far as I knew, that was the only place where episodes released every week. (it is available on netflix these days)

 

I wanted my content, they had it. I don't care about any boycotts because of "stuff".

[trooper11]

I liked it too, but they had nothing to do with the production of it. Only temporary broadcast rights. They no longer have the show on their network and haven't since the BR/DVD came out.

Do you know if they actually have direct involvement with any of the live action series that show up there?

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

 That's why I said "when it came out". As far as I knew, that was the only place where episodes released every week. (it is available on netflix these days)

 

I wanted my content, they had it. I don't care about any boycotts because of "stuff".

 

It was on Waypoint too IIRC. Still is if you have the LE of H4.

 

And fair enough, that's your decision. I do care and it's why I had an issue with this promotion and others in the past. That is why it's a talking point and why it is still being reported in the news. You can't sweep it under the rug and ignore it or ask "what's the big deal" because you think it's about a console war. It's not, or at least not to everyone it isn't. There's no doubt going to be those who jump on a bangwagon to say something negative when they get the chance.

 

You can't silence the discussion. If you don't want to be part of it, then don't look at the topic.

 

 

Do you know if they actually have direct involvement with any of the live action series that show up there?

 

Nope. I would guess they do, otherwise why do they exist :p All I know is MS produced Forward Unto Dawn for about $10 mil and it was just a means to broadcast the show before the dvd released.

[trooper11]

Thank god Rooster Teeth left them (Y)

I had no idea they partnered with them for a time.

I'm certainly a fan of their content.

[BajiRav]

You can't silence the discussion. If you don't want to be part of it, then don't look at the topic.

 

What are you talking about? Where did I try to silence the discussion? :/

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

What are you talking about? Where did I try to silence the discussion? :/

 

I never said you did? Just improper Scots use of English language :P

[BajiRav]

I never said you did? Just improper Scots use of English language :p

Ahh well. You separated out that sentence from the paragraph before it. I thought it was directed at me. (Y) :hug:

[GotBored]

Oh and Ars updated their article:http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/01/stealth-marketing-microsoft-paying-youtubers-for-xbox-one-mentions/The update is pretty darn important here because it makes two points:1. MS apparently had no knowledge or control of the program in question or its terms. Machinima bares all of that responsibility.2. They explicitly say that the Machinima terms do not bar casters from mentioning that the promotion exists, only to the specific terms of their deal. That's sort of how I was interpreting it earlier, but now that they are confirming that point, that at least makes it sound like casters were, in fact, allowed to tell their viewers in some way about participating in a promotion.So, these could just be lies, but if we take them at face value, then they clear things up a little. It still leaves the problem of casters actually disclosing things.

The terms specifically disallows them from mentioning they are being paid to positively review the Xbox One or it's games in the videos they are being paid to promote. Casters cannot mention they are part of the promotion, the legal terms are fairly clear.

'You agree to keep confidential at all times all matters relating to this Agreement, including, without limitation, the Promotional Requirements'

No company just throws money at a another company and says 'Promote this anyway you want', they have to pitch an idea Microsoft is happy with and then they get the advertisement contract. Maybe they didn't know the full terms but they would've know about the promotion.

[vcfan]

Love the line, "So are we supposed to boycott E3, PAX and Comic-Con now, or what?". No, you boycott Machinima like any sensible gamer did years ago (Y) Worst.network.ever.

love that when the it was done with e3,pax and comic con, it wasn't a big deal. but when it involves the big bad Microsoft then we must boycott. just ridiculous.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

love that when the it was done with e3,pax and comic con, it wasn't a big deal. but when it involves the big bad Microsoft then we must boycott. just ridiculous.

 

Personally I never heard or read any articles about those times. If I had I'd also have an issue with it.

 

So again, quit insinuating that I only have an issue because it's Microsoft/X1 when I've already explained otherwise, multiple times.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

love that when the it was done with e3,pax and comic con, it wasn't a big deal. but when it involves the big bad Microsoft then we must boycott. just ridiculous.

 

Take the team to read a little more, I've seen a few of you say this now and the answers have been posted multiple times in this topic. The issue is mainly with this 

 

"You agree to keep confidential at all times all matters relating to this Agreement, including, without limitation, the Promotional Requirements, and the CPM Compensation, listed above."

 

Additionally, creators "may not say anything negative or disparaging about Machinima, Xbox One, or any of its Games" in their videos.

 

 

From the legal agreement here: http://pastebin.com/vec6vjv5

 

 

The E3/Pax/Comic Con conditions can be seen here and none of them state the above - http://reconxbl.blogspot.de/2014/01/why-i-leaked-xb1m13-agreement.html Heck in each of them you HAVE to say you're being given a monetary bonus and who by. From what I've read over the last 24 hours apparently it's a legal requirement.

[BajiRav]

The terms specifically disallows them from mentioning they are being paid to positively review the Xbox One or it's games in the videos they are being paid to promote. Casters cannot mention they are part of the promotion, the legal terms are fairly clear.

'You agree to keep confidential at all times all matters relating to this Agreement, including, without limitation, the Promotional Requirements'

No company just throws money at a another company and says 'Promote this anyway you want', they have to pitch an idea Microsoft is happy with and then they get the advertisement contract. Maybe they didn't know the full terms but they would've know about the promotion.

No, it does not.

[trooper11]

The terms specifically disallows them from mentioning they are being paid to positively review the Xbox One or it's games in the videos they are being paid to promote. Casters cannot mention they are part of the promotion, the legal terms are fairly clear.

'You agree to keep confidential at all times all matters relating to this Agreement, including, without limitation, the Promotional Requirements'

No company just throws money at a another company and says 'Promote this anyway you want', they have to pitch an idea Microsoft is happy with and then they get the advertisement contract. Maybe they didn't know the full terms but they would've know about the promotion.

Hey, don't come after me, I didn't make the statement that Ars posted.

Machinima claims that their term does not bar a caster form mentioning that they are part of a promotion, only the details of that promotion such as dollar amounts and requirements.

As far as MS' announcement, well again, don't argue with me, go argue with them. They are claiming that they contracted Machinima to do promotions, but had no input or control over the way Machinima created the methods for promotion or their terms. That sounds to me like MS signed off for Machinama to promote X1 related topics and let Machinima decide how best to do that.

[trooper11]

The E3/Pax/Comic Con conditions can be seen here and none of them state the above - http://reconxbl.blogspot.de/2014/01/why-i-leaked-xb1m13-agreement.html Heck in each of them you HAVE to say you're being given a monetary bonus and who by. From what I've read over the last 24 hours apparently it's a legal requirement.

That is correct. Those agreements required the caster to disclose.

Machinima made the mistake of not having the same clause in this agreement, although they claim that casters were not barred from saying they were part of a promotion.

Looks like we need some lawyers in here to decide if what they say is true or not :laugh:

The laws in the US now require that any caster in the US must disclose this info, regardless of any agreement. That means that if the casters were not barred from saying this, they will be directly in trouble. However, if its decided that Machinima blocked them from complying with the law, then they will also be liable.

[Mr.Perfect]

The terms specifically disallows them from mentioning they are being paid to positively review the Xbox One or it's games in the videos they are being paid to promote. Casters cannot mention they are part of the promotion, the legal terms are fairly clear.

'You agree to keep confidential at all times all matters relating to this Agreement, including, without limitation, the Promotional Requirements'

No company just throws money at a another company and says 'Promote this anyway you want', they have to pitch an idea Microsoft is happy with and then they get the advertisement contract. Maybe they didn't know the full terms but they would've know about the promotion.

 

Yeh, I do believe it's to be read like trooper11 said.  You can say you're sponsored by Microsoft... Just don't mention what that sponsorship entails. Rules... Pay... Etc...

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

That is correct. Those agreements required the caster to disclose.

Machinima made the mistake of not having the same clause in this agreement, although they claim that casters were not barred from saying they were part of a promotion.

Looks like we need some lawyers in here to decide if what they say is true or not :laugh:

The laws in the US now require that any caster in the US must disclose this info, regardless of any agreement. That means that if the casters were not barred from saying this, they will be directly in trouble. However, if its decided that Machinima blocked them from complying with the law, then they will also be liable.

My hypothetical question is after running numerous "similar" YT campaigns why would they all of a sudden get cold feet about wanting people to say they partnered with MS? Seems extremely strange to me that Machinima would see any benefit in calling this shot, and I know MS are trying to rinse their hands of any responsibility saying they had no say, but the whole thing stinks. Not to worry, the truth always finds its way onto the net in time.

[trooper11]

My hypothetical question is after running numerous "similar" YT campaigns why would they all of a sudden get cold feet about wanting people to say they partnered with MS? Seems extremely strange to me that Machinima would see any benefit in calling this shot, and I know MS are trying to rinse their hands of any responsibility saying they had no say, but the whole thing stinks. Not to worry, the truth always finds its way onto the net in time.

If they had gotten cold feet about that, then why word the agreement in a way that does not make it clear that they cannot mention being sponsored or being part of a promotion? No where in the agreement does it say "You cannot say anything about being part of a promotion for the Xbox 1". As to why they didn't just mirror past agreements, that's another good question for Machinima. If someone can show us proof of other recent agreements that also use the same wording as this one, then maybe it was some change on Machinima's end regarding these agreements. Otherwise, who knows.

Again, where are the lawyers to clear this up?

At this point, it sounds like Machinima is trying to clarify the point regarding that. They have plenty of incentive to do that too, wanting to avoid legal issues.

[vcfan]

Take the team to read a little more, I've seen a few of you say this now and the answers have been posted multiple times in this topic. The issue is mainly with this 

 

 

From the legal agreement here: http://pastebin.com/vec6vjv5

 

 

The E3/Pax/Comic Con conditions can be seen here and none of them state the above - http://reconxbl.blogspot.de/2014/01/why-i-leaked-xb1m13-agreement.html Heck in each of them you HAVE to say you're being given a monetary bonus and who by. From what I've read over the last 24 hours apparently it's a legal requirement.

 

holdup. rewind. you started this thread because Microsoft was alledgedly paying off youtubers for positive comments, exactly the same situation as pax/e3/cc. I don't see anywhere where you were outraged because of the conditions of the agreement. The hush hush stuff in the agreement surfaced later,and not why you,and others such as on neogaf originally posted this news. Therefore my point still stands.