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#121 trooper11

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 21:19

The E3/Pax/Comic Con conditions can be seen here and none of them state the above - http://reconxbl.blog...-agreement.html Heck in each of them you HAVE to say you're being given a monetary bonus and who by. From what I've read over the last 24 hours apparently it's a legal requirement.


That is correct. Those agreements required the caster to disclose.

Machinima made the mistake of not having the same clause in this agreement, although they claim that casters were not barred from saying they were part of a promotion.

Looks like we need some lawyers in here to decide if what they say is true or not :laugh:

The laws in the US now require that any caster in the US must disclose this info, regardless of any agreement. That means that if the casters were not barred from saying this, they will be directly in trouble. However, if its decided that Machinima blocked them from complying with the law, then they will also be liable.


#122 Mr.Perfect

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 21:22

The terms specifically disallows them from mentioning they are being paid to positively review the Xbox One or it's games in the videos they are being paid to promote. Casters cannot mention they are part of the promotion, the legal terms are fairly clear.

'You agree to keep confidential at all times all matters relating to this Agreement, including, without limitation, the Promotional Requirements'

No company just throws money at a another company and says 'Promote this anyway you want', they have to pitch an idea Microsoft is happy with and then they get the advertisement contract. Maybe they didn't know the full terms but they would've know about the promotion.

 

Yeh, I do believe it's to be read like trooper11 said.  You can say you're sponsored by Microsoft... Just don't mention what that sponsorship entails. Rules... Pay... Etc...



#123 OP Audioboxer

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 21:40

That is correct. Those agreements required the caster to disclose.

Machinima made the mistake of not having the same clause in this agreement, although they claim that casters were not barred from saying they were part of a promotion.

Looks like we need some lawyers in here to decide if what they say is true or not :laugh:

The laws in the US now require that any caster in the US must disclose this info, regardless of any agreement. That means that if the casters were not barred from saying this, they will be directly in trouble. However, if its decided that Machinima blocked them from complying with the law, then they will also be liable.

My hypothetical question is after running numerous "similar" YT campaigns why would they all of a sudden get cold feet about wanting people to say they partnered with MS? Seems extremely strange to me that Machinima would see any benefit in calling this shot, and I know MS are trying to rinse their hands of any responsibility saying they had no say, but the whole thing stinks. Not to worry, the truth always finds its way onto the net in time.

#124 trooper11

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 22:19

My hypothetical question is after running numerous "similar" YT campaigns why would they all of a sudden get cold feet about wanting people to say they partnered with MS? Seems extremely strange to me that Machinima would see any benefit in calling this shot, and I know MS are trying to rinse their hands of any responsibility saying they had no say, but the whole thing stinks. Not to worry, the truth always finds its way onto the net in time.



If they had gotten cold feet about that, then why word the agreement in a way that does not make it clear that they cannot mention being sponsored or being part of a promotion? No where in the agreement does it say "You cannot say anything about being part of a promotion for the Xbox 1". As to why they didn't just mirror past agreements, that's another good question for Machinima. If someone can show us proof of other recent agreements that also use the same wording as this one, then maybe it was some change on Machinima's end regarding these agreements. Otherwise, who knows.

Again, where are the lawyers to clear this up?

At this point, it sounds like Machinima is trying to clarify the point regarding that. They have plenty of incentive to do that too, wanting to avoid legal issues.

#125 vcfan

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 00:01

Take the team to read a little more, I've seen a few of you say this now and the answers have been posted multiple times in this topic. The issue is mainly with this 
 

 

From the legal agreement here: http://pastebin.com/vec6vjv5
 
 
The E3/Pax/Comic Con conditions can be seen here and none of them state the above - http://reconxbl.blog...-agreement.html Heck in each of them you HAVE to say you're being given a monetary bonus and who by. From what I've read over the last 24 hours apparently it's a legal requirement.

 
holdup. rewind. you started this thread because Microsoft was alledgedly paying off youtubers for positive comments, exactly the same situation as pax/e3/cc. I don't see anywhere where you were outraged because of the conditions of the agreement. The hush hush stuff in the agreement surfaced later,and not why you,and others such as on neogaf originally posted this news. Therefore my point still stands.
 
iTkC6khCw9h0i.png

#126 George P

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 00:09

They already officially said that the part people keep pointing to isn't what they think. The agreement details are what you can't talk about or what you're getting paid, it does not say you can't say anything about being in the promotion itself, it's not a secret. They ran the same limited deal when the XB1 launched in November. If they changed something it's on them to sort out, the agreement isn't with people and MS it's with Machinima.

#127 GotBored

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:16

Machinima claims that their term does not bar a caster form mentioning that they are part of a promotion, only the details of that promotion such as dollar amounts and requirements.

As far as MS' announcement, well again, don't argue with me, go argue with them. They are claiming that they contracted Machinima to do promotions, but had no input or control over the way Machinima created the methods for promotion or their terms. That sounds to me like MS signed off for Machinama to promote X1 related topics and let Machinima decide how best to do that.

 

Anyone can be a part of a promotion, I can review a Wooden spoon and say I'm part of a Wooden Spoon promotion ..because I am promoting a wooden spoon. You don't have to be associated with or be paid by any company to promote.

All users who do reviews on YouTube are promoting a product, saying I'm doing a 'Xbox One' or 'Microsoft' promotion doesn't indicate to subscribers/watchers that the video has to be positive for them to receive money like this agreement.



#128 OP Audioboxer

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 13:50

Boogie made a new video

 

 

and everyone's "favourite" buttocks chimed in

 

imbusy
 
al contaracts are veted by legal tho. Usualy multipel timse.

 

 

http://neogaf.com/fo...&postcount=3603



#129 BajiRav

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 14:22

Boogie made a new video
 

 
and everyone's "favourite" buttocks chimed in
 
 
 
http://neogaf.com/fo...&postcount=3603

Is he saying MS legal vets any contracts machinima signs with third parties? I doubt it.
Besides he has lost all credibility, even on NeoGAF from what I see.

#130 Andrew G.

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 15:48

 
Xbox One: paid Machinima videos to be labelled as adverts, says Microsoft

 

Microsoft has confirmed that it asked Machinima to label its paid Xbox One video content as adverts, after it was revealed that YouTubers would only be paid a higher rate for saying nice things about Xbox One in their videos.

 

xbox-one-logo-black.jpg

 

We covered the initial Xbox One Machinima deal through the link. A clause in the initial incentive stated, “You may not say anything negative or disparaging about Machinima, Xbox One or any of its Games in your Campaign Video.” The line triggered a scathing response from gamers, who accused both firms for deceiving viewers through what are essentially, adverts.

 

We then posted a response from Microsoft, in which the company said that this kind of marketing deal is typical, and stressed, “The Xbox team does not review any specific content or provide feedback on content.”

 

Now, Microsoft has elaborated in a statement to Eurogamer, which reads, “Microsoft was not aware of individual contracts Machinima had with their content providers as part of this promotion and we didn’t provide feedback on any of the videos.

 

“We have asked Machinima to not post any additional Xbox One content as part of this media buy and we have asked them to add disclaimers to the videos that were part of this program indicating they were part of paid advertising.”

 

We’ll wait to see if such disclaimers are indeed labelled on videos. What do you make of the above?

 

GG Microsoft (Y)

 

The system works! You can thank AB & I later, internet :laugh: :p



#131 vcfan

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 15:57

and everyone's "favourite" buttocks chimed in

 

 

http://neogaf.com/fo...&postcount=3603

wow,people still think this troll is legit?  just off the top of my head,recent stuff,gpu downclock,snap broken,xbox live broken,yield issues,



#132 trooper11

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 17:45

Anyone can be a part of a promotion, I can review a Wooden spoon and say I'm part of a Wooden Spoon promotion ..because I am promoting a wooden spoon. You don't have to be associated with or be paid by any company to promote.
All users who do reviews on YouTube are promoting a product, saying I'm doing a 'Xbox One' or 'Microsoft' promotion doesn't indicate to subscribers/watchers that the video has to be positive for them to receive money like this agreement.




Twist the words all you want, but so far, it seems that YouTube casters did not disclose the info in any form. Telling them they were part of a paid promotion would have avoided all of this.

Again, the videos didn't have to just be positive. So positive or neutral, which is easily done if you have seen demos and play through on YouTube.


 
 

GG Microsoft (Y)
 
The system works! You can thank AB & I later, internet :laugh: :p



Nicely done.

It also further shows that MS was not part of the process to create the terms of the promotions Machinima put together. Thanks to the leak of info on twitter and the following discussions, MS was made aware and had to step in.

#133 NightmarE D

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 02:38

No mention of all the reviewers from YouTube that come out talking about how Sony and others do it to? Not surprised.

IMHO it seems like all the Xbox One Vs. PS4 arguments involving games and hardware are done and now it's time to go after the little stuff. At least until more games are released or slimmer console revisions. Then it'll go back to games and hardware arguing.

#134 OP Audioboxer

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 12:45

No mention of all the reviewers from YouTube that come out talking about how Sony and others do it to? Not surprised.

IMHO it seems like all the Xbox One Vs. PS4 arguments involving games and hardware are done and now it's time to go after the little stuff. At least until more games are released or slimmer console revisions. Then it'll go back to games and hardware arguing.

 

If you or someone else goes and finds a deal like this with Sony on the other end, sure, the internet will explode as well. Regardless of if you're in that current camp of thinking the whole internet is against MS and pro-Sony, that's just crazy thinking. People do not like shady deals, end of.

 

Anyway, Adam Sessler done a piece last night with the leaker, Machinima, Kotaku and TotalBiscuit. I've heard it's a good watch, even if you don't like TB. Going to watch it myself soon.

 





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