eXtermia Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Unless you have a hardware level RAID-5 with a battery backup, I would recommend something like ZFS with RAID-Z1. I use custom built NAS with ZFS I actually like it better than raid 5, add data de-duplication and the ability migrate to other systems incase the main one fails even with different hardware. (most hardware raid only works with the same model hardware) , and the fact that riad 5 when it fails causes a lot more stress on the remaining drives compared to ZFS.***even my answer doesnt directly refer to the main question*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 Hello, Quicky: When I plug into the controller the new drive (got it today), should I format it before hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 Hello, Rebuilding as we speak. ETC: 14 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hello, Rebuilt complete successfully. Browsing thru files on the RAID is now WAAAAY faster. Thank you all. Odom 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fahim S. MVC Posted January 24, 2014 MVC Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hello, Rebuilding as we speak. ETC: 14 hours. Wow.. 14 hours! So if anything happened in that 14 hours whilst your machine was reading 2 drives and writing to the new one, you would have lost all of your data. I'm not sure that's a sensible risk to take. TPreston 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Wow.. 14 hours! So if anything happened in that 14 hours whilst your machine was reading 2 drives and writing to the new one, you would have lost all of your data. I'm not sure that's a sensible risk to take. That's why RAID 5 with big drivers is crap; during rebuild the chances of one of the other drives dying is very high (more if they where bought in batch, as in at the same time). i don't recommend RAID 5 to anyone :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Hello, Wow.. 14 hours! So if anything happened in that 14 hours whilst your machine was reading 2 drives and writing to the new one, you would have lost all of your data. I'm not sure that's a sensible risk to take. It is a scary thought but I had all important data backuped <- (WTF?) backed up. The worst that could happen is lose replacable pr0n.... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted January 24, 2014 MVC Share Posted January 24, 2014 the worst that could happen is lose replacable pr0n.... :laugh: IKR? My system feels the need to delete the folder labeled XXX. All the sudden it's just gone! Maybe I keep accidentally deleting it but I don't think I am! But only the folder called XXX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 IKR? My system feels the need to delete the folder labeled XXX. All the sudden it's just gone! Maybe I keep accidentally deleting it but I don't think I am! But only the folder called XXX. you sure it isn't your wife doing that? :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted January 24, 2014 MVC Share Posted January 24, 2014 you sure it isn't your wife doing that? :laugh: :laugh: That's a very good possibility if I was married, had a GF or anyone living with me. When XXX was on the root of my G that along with My VM folder (Have 2 backups of both, one in a safety deposit box) just disappeared. The drive is probably taking a ****. Not like I specifically backup my porn, I just backup all drives on to a 2 3TB drives (one of which is off site), the porn just happens to get backed up :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 That's a very good possibility if I was married, had a GF or anyone living with me. When XXX was on the root of my G that along with My VM folder (Have 2 backups of both, one in a safety deposit box) just disappeared. The drive is probably taking a ****. Not like I specifically backup my porn, I just backup all drives on to a 2 3TB drives (one of which is off site), the porn just happens to get backed up :) do you use any specific app to view that? like VLC or other? i've had a problem quite recently with VLC that when closing the app it feel the need to delete the video i was watching... very funny. :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Warwagon MVC Posted January 24, 2014 MVC Share Posted January 24, 2014 do you use any specific app to view that? like VLC or other? i've had a problem quite recently with VLC that when closing the app it feel the need to delete the video i was watching... very funny. :rofl: Nope this is 300+ videos ... there one day gone the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Hello, RIP another one. Getting another ST3000DM001 unless told so by the great Neowin community. I wonder how these buddies will hold up in the microserver :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPHP Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Evening, I don't comment unless I have something relevant to say - I think this qualifies. I have a HP ML110 G7 with a P410 controller (256MB BBWC) using 4x Seagate ST3000DM001 drives in a RAID5. In the past 2 years, 2 of these drives have failed. Unfortunately they only have 1year warranty here, so I've shelled out an extra ?100 for each replacement drive. Over the course of 2 years, that's ?600 in drives! The past week, a third drive has failed. This one is in warranty, but it's 3-7 days shipping. I don't like waiting. I've purchased 3x 4TB WD Red drives to replace my 4x3TB Seagates. Same capacity but with 3 discs. Crucially, the drives are ?140 each with 3year warranty, and for ?10 more I can buy a 1year extension to the warranty. Plus with them being WD Red drives they are designed for NAS/RAID use. For reference, my server runs 24x7x365 and stores all my media (Blu-rays/ISO's/etc) I'm hopeful these WD Red drives will be more reliable. At least the warranty is next business day! Oh, the 4x 3TB Seagates will be going in my Microserver. Will probably pass them through into WS2012R2 and use Storage Spaces for redundancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Hello, Evening, I don't comment unless I have something relevant to say - I think this qualifies. I have a HP ML110 G7 with a P410 controller (256MB BBWC) using 4x Seagate ST3000DM001 drives in a RAID5. In the past 2 years, 2 of these drives have failed. Unfortunately they only have 1year warranty here, so I've shelled out an extra ?100 for each replacement drive. Over the course of 2 years, that's ?600 in drives! The past week, a third drive has failed. This one is in warranty, but it's 3-7 days shipping. I don't like waiting. I've purchased 3x 4TB WD Red drives to replace my 4x3TB Seagates. Same capacity but with 3 discs. Crucially, the drives are ?140 each with 3year warranty, and for ?10 more I can buy a 1year extension to the warranty. Plus with them being WD Red drives they are designed for NAS/RAID use. For reference, my server runs 24x7x365 and stores all my media (Blu-rays/ISO's/etc) I'm hopeful these WD Red drives will be more reliable. At least the warranty is next business day! The only but I put to the Reds (excluding their cost) is the 5400 vs 7200. I use the RAID5 to load/save my Desktop, Documents, Music, Pictures, etc...Its all saved/loaded from there. So I do need some speed when working around the OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 6, 2014 MVC Share Posted March 6, 2014 Evening, I don't comment unless I have something relevant to say - I think this qualifies. I have a HP ML110 G7 with a P410 controller (256MB BBWC) using 4x Seagate ST3000DM001 drives in a RAID5. In the past 2 years, 2 of these drives have failed. Unfortunately they only have 1year warranty here, so I've shelled out an extra ?100 for each replacement drive. Over the course of 2 years, that's ?600 in drives! The past week, a third drive has failed. This one is in warranty, but it's 3-7 days shipping. I don't like waiting. I've purchased 3x 4TB WD Red drives to replace my 4x3TB Seagates. Same capacity but with 3 discs. Crucially, the drives are ?140 each with 3year warranty, and for ?10 more I can buy a 1year extension to the warranty. Plus with them being WD Red drives they are designed for NAS/RAID use. For reference, my server runs 24x7x365 and stores all my media (Blu-rays/ISO's/etc) I'm hopeful these WD Red drives will be more reliable. At least the warranty is next business day! Oh, the 4x 3TB Seagates will be going in my Microserver. Will probably pass them through into WS2012R2 and use Storage Spaces for redundancy. Why are you buying WD REDs? The problem with RAID 5 on arrays with large disks comes down to sheer math. With a 10^14 error rate these drives in a RAID 5 are almost certain to fail a rebuild... If you want to use those size drives on a RAID 5 I would recommend you go SAS to get yourself back some reliability... That's why RAID 5 with big drivers is crap; during rebuild the chances of one of the other drives dying is very high (more if they where bought in batch, as in at the same time). i don't recommend RAID 5 to anyone :| It all depends on what you're running... I looked at WD RED error rate 10^14 and compared it to the SAS drives I use in my RAID 5 arrays 10^17. There is a whole lot less risk of a rebuild failing due to a media read error on the SAS disk than the WD NAS RED. RAID 5 isn't bad for all cases, but if you're using low quality components in a large disk RAID 5 then yeah I agree that is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Hello, Awesome. Today no one has a ST3000DM001 in store. Just great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odom Member Posted March 7, 2014 Member Share Posted March 7, 2014 I don't mean to highjack the thread, maybe someone can just give a quick explanation. But if so many of you do not recommend RAID5, what would you recommend instead? Reason I'm asking is that I also have a RAID5 with 3TB and 4TB drives. Had a RAID5 for years with always the biggest drives and never had problems with rebuilds. Mindovermaster 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted March 7, 2014 MVC Share Posted March 7, 2014 I don't mean to highjack the thread, maybe someone can just give a quick explanation. But if so many of you do not recommend RAID5, what would you recommend instead? Reason I'm asking is that I also have a RAID5 with 3TB and 4TB drives. Had a RAID5 for years with always the biggest drives and never had problems with rebuilds. People are too harsh on RAID 5. It is still my primary choice for RAID on data volumes... Really what it boils down to is the larger the drives in the RAID the higher chance you are to encounter a error while reading the parity data on a rebuild. This is a concern due to the weak reliability of consumer grade disks and the huge expense of enterprise grade disks where this isn't an issue (yet). How bad this risk is really boils down to how your RAID controller will handle this. Hardware controllers from LSI usually handle it well, but crappy controllers I imagine don't. For instance, WD says that a WD RED NAS drive will likely have 1 corrupt read in every 10^14 bytes read. For an SAS drive it is 1 corrupt read in every 10^17 a massive difference in reliability and cost... RAID 5 isn't a problem on large disk arrays, IMHO, depending on what the hardware stack looks like. If you're using enterprise grade components you're probably a lot less likely to have issues. Of course, still always use backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Hello, I don't mean to highjack the thread, maybe someone can just give a quick explanation. But if so many of you do not recommend RAID5, what would you recommend instead? Reason I'm asking is that I also have a RAID5 with 3TB and 4TB drives. Had a RAID5 for years with always the biggest drives and never had problems with rebuilds. Good question I asked too. Read this thread where I ask about RAID5 but a lot more about RAID is talked about: https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1180749-raid-levels-why-and-which-depending-on-situation-of-course/ Ill basically sum it up while Im changing from a large drive RAID5: Basically, on your RAID5, there can be a huge ammount of data. This can range from a lot of stuff but, generally in a home, all of that stuff is user replacable. Things that are not useable replaceable are, for example, documents, personal pictures....and thats about it. Your legal movie, music, etc. rips are are replacable. So why have redundancy on that? The only reason is mine reason: Pure laziness :p Popping a drive out and putting another one in and, in Apple terms, "it all works" is a lazy mans drive. There are several drawbacks Because of the RAID5 write hole and non battery RAID controllers, you could find yourself in a nasty way if your data is missing its parity bit when it tries to rebuild. Another downfall is if your RAID controller breaks or you move the drives to another system: You would have to find another exact controller or another same chipset. This is why is better in 2014 to make Storage Pools (WS2012 term, its called several ways). Using software you can make a RAID5 but you can also make semi RAID5: Want to never lose that porn video? Keep a copy on all 4 drives.......while to the OS and the end user, you just see one file. A old song you downloaded for your grandma? Keep it only on one drive or at best a copy on two. Lets you really customize and best of all: Should you format, just reinstall and enable the pool again. Read the thread. People in there explain it WAY better. Odom 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odom Member Posted March 7, 2014 Member Share Posted March 7, 2014 Thank you very much, I'll go through that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riahc3 Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Hello, Thank you very much, I'll go through that thread.Proper credit goes to BudMan, not me :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daorbed9 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I don't mean to highjack the thread, maybe someone can just give a quick explanation. But if so many of you do not recommend RAID5, what would you recommend instead? Reason I'm asking is that I also have a RAID5 with 3TB and 4TB drives. Had a RAID5 for years with always the biggest drives and never had problems with rebuilds. Imo using multiple raid-1's is a very good choice for consumer/small business. It keeps everything simple. Even when raid breaks you still have the data as a single drive. Speed is more than enough at 100+ MBs on modern drives to satisfy a GB network adapter. If you use teamed adapters then you are beyond a simple non-hardware raid server based system. With raid-1 unless you have a very high i/o you won't really need a hardware controller. It will always help but it all depends on what you want to pay vs the reward/risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+BudMan MVC Posted March 9, 2014 MVC Share Posted March 9, 2014 Reason I'm asking is that I also have a RAID5 with 3TB and 4TB drives. Had a RAID5 for years with always the biggest drives and never had problems with rebuilds. So how many rebuilds have you had to do over the years? Also curious how much data do you have on these 3 and 4 TB drive arrays -- 4TB drives have not been out all that long.. You have 4TB drives in an array and have done so many rebuilds because of failures that you can say you never have problems? The problem with the rebuild on large drives is error rate and having to read lots of data - if your large arrays are not very full, they are not reading much data on rebuld. Why do you feel your having so many failures would be my other question.. Is this a place of work, or your home that you have all these large arrays.. I am very curious to what you store on them that you feel justifies the added cost of parity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlonite Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I'd also look into why the drive failed is it a duff cable HDD getting to hot I only ask this because I run RAID0 and nothing else and over the last ten years have only ever had one HDD fail (WD2500AAJS) and that was just through share age not heat or cable or power issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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