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RAID5 on 3 legs! What leg should I get?


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#31 Praetor

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 17:05

Wow.. 14 hours!

So if anything happened in that 14 hours whilst your machine was reading 2 drives and writing to the new one, you would have lost all of your data.

I'm not sure that's a sensible risk to take.

 

That's why RAID 5 with big drivers is crap; during rebuild the chances of one of the other drives dying is very high (more if they where bought in batch, as in at the same time).

 

i don't recommend RAID 5 to anyone :|




#32 OP riahc3

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 17:17

Hello,

Wow.. 14 hours!
So if anything happened in that 14 hours whilst your machine was reading 2 drives and writing to the new one, you would have lost all of your data.
I'm not sure that's a sensible risk to take.

It is a scary thought but I had all important data backuped <- (WTF?) backed up. The worst that could happen is lose replacable pr0n.... :laugh:

#33 +warwagon

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 17:27

the worst that could happen is lose replacable pr0n.... :laugh:

 

IKR? My system feels the need to delete the folder labeled XXX. All the sudden it's just gone! Maybe I keep accidentally deleting it but I don't think I am! But only the folder called XXX.



#34 Praetor

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 17:29

IKR? My system feels the need to delete the folder labeled XXX. All the sudden it's just gone! Maybe I keep accidentally deleting it but I don't think I am! But only the folder called XXX.

 

you sure it isn't your wife doing that? :laugh: :laugh:



#35 +warwagon

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 17:29

you sure it isn't your wife doing that? :laugh: :laugh:

 

That's a very good possibility if I was married, had a GF or anyone living with me. When XXX was on the root of my G that along with My VM folder (Have 2 backups of both, one in a safety deposit box) just disappeared. The drive is probably taking a ****.

 

Not like I specifically backup my porn, I just backup all drives on to a 2 3TB drives (one of which is off site), the porn just happens to get backed up :)



#36 Praetor

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 17:37

That's a very good possibility if I was married, had a GF or anyone living with me. When XXX was on the root of my G that along with My VM folder (Have 2 backups of both, one in a safety deposit box) just disappeared. The drive is probably taking a ****.

 

Not like I specifically backup my porn, I just backup all drives on to a 2 3TB drives (one of which is off site), the porn just happens to get backed up :)

 

do you use any specific app to view that? like VLC or other? i've had a problem quite recently with VLC that when closing the app it feel the need to delete the video i was watching... very funny. :rofl:



#37 +warwagon

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 17:38

do you use any specific app to view that? like VLC or other? i've had a problem quite recently with VLC that when closing the app it feel the need to delete the video i was watching... very funny. :rofl:

 

Nope this is 300+ videos ... there one day gone the next.



#38 OP riahc3

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 22:30

Hello,

 

RIP another one. Getting another ST3000DM001 unless told so by the great Neowin community.

 

I wonder how these buddies will hold up in the microserver :(



#39 ShadowPHP

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 22:56

Evening,

 

I don't comment unless I have something relevant to say - I think this qualifies.

 

I have a HP ML110 G7 with a P410 controller (256MB BBWC) using 4x Seagate ST3000DM001 drives in a RAID5.

In the past 2 years, 2 of these drives have failed. Unfortunately they only have 1year warranty here, so I've shelled out an extra £100 for each replacement drive.

Over the course of 2 years, that's £600 in drives!

 

The past week, a third drive has failed. This one is in warranty, but it's 3-7 days shipping. I don't like waiting.

 

I've purchased 3x 4TB WD Red drives to replace my 4x3TB Seagates. Same capacity but with 3 discs. Crucially, the drives are £140 each with 3year warranty, and for £10 more I can buy a 1year extension to the warranty.

Plus with them being WD Red drives they are designed for NAS/RAID use.

 

For reference, my server runs 24x7x365 and stores all my media (Blu-rays/ISO's/etc)

 

I'm hopeful these WD Red drives will be more reliable. At least the warranty is next business day!

 

 

Oh, the 4x 3TB Seagates will be going in my Microserver. Will probably pass them through into WS2012R2 and use Storage Spaces for redundancy.



#40 OP riahc3

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 22:58

Hello,

Evening,
 
I don't comment unless I have something relevant to say - I think this qualifies.
 
I have a HP ML110 G7 with a P410 controller (256MB BBWC) using 4x Seagate ST3000DM001 drives in a RAID5.
In the past 2 years, 2 of these drives have failed. Unfortunately they only have 1year warranty here, so I've shelled out an extra £100 for each replacement drive.
Over the course of 2 years, that's £600 in drives!
 
The past week, a third drive has failed. This one is in warranty, but it's 3-7 days shipping. I don't like waiting.
 
I've purchased 3x 4TB WD Red drives to replace my 4x3TB Seagates. Same capacity but with 3 discs. Crucially, the drives are £140 each with 3year warranty, and for £10 more I can buy a 1year extension to the warranty.
Plus with them being WD Red drives they are designed for NAS/RAID use.
 
For reference, my server runs 24x7x365 and stores all my media (Blu-rays/ISO's/etc)
 
I'm hopeful these WD Red drives will be more reliable. At least the warranty is next business day!

The only but I put to the Reds (excluding their cost) is the 5400 vs 7200. I use the RAID5 to load/save my Desktop, Documents, Music, Pictures, etc...Its all saved/loaded from there. So I do need some speed when working around the OS.

#41 +LogicalApex

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 23:14

Evening,

 

I don't comment unless I have something relevant to say - I think this qualifies.

 

I have a HP ML110 G7 with a P410 controller (256MB BBWC) using 4x Seagate ST3000DM001 drives in a RAID5.

In the past 2 years, 2 of these drives have failed. Unfortunately they only have 1year warranty here, so I've shelled out an extra £100 for each replacement drive.

Over the course of 2 years, that's £600 in drives!

 

The past week, a third drive has failed. This one is in warranty, but it's 3-7 days shipping. I don't like waiting.

 

I've purchased 3x 4TB WD Red drives to replace my 4x3TB Seagates. Same capacity but with 3 discs. Crucially, the drives are £140 each with 3year warranty, and for £10 more I can buy a 1year extension to the warranty.

Plus with them being WD Red drives they are designed for NAS/RAID use.

 

For reference, my server runs 24x7x365 and stores all my media (Blu-rays/ISO's/etc)

 

I'm hopeful these WD Red drives will be more reliable. At least the warranty is next business day!

 

 

Oh, the 4x 3TB Seagates will be going in my Microserver. Will probably pass them through into WS2012R2 and use Storage Spaces for redundancy.

Why are you buying WD REDs?

 

The problem with RAID 5 on arrays with large disks comes down to sheer math. With a 10^14 error rate these drives in a RAID 5 are almost certain to fail a rebuild...

 

If you want to use those size drives on a RAID 5 I would recommend you go SAS to get yourself back some reliability...

 

That's why RAID 5 with big drivers is crap; during rebuild the chances of one of the other drives dying is very high (more if they where bought in batch, as in at the same time).

 

i don't recommend RAID 5 to anyone :|

It all depends on what you're running... I looked at WD RED error rate 10^14 and compared it to the SAS drives I use in my RAID 5 arrays 10^17. There is a whole lot less risk of a rebuild failing due to a media read error on the SAS disk than the WD NAS RED. RAID 5 isn't bad for all cases, but if you're using low quality components in a large disk RAID 5 then yeah I agree that is a bad idea.



#42 OP riahc3

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 09:34

Hello,

Awesome. Today no one has a ST3000DM001 in store. Just great.

#43 +Odom

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 16:28

I don't mean to highjack the thread, maybe someone can just give a quick explanation. But if so many of you do not recommend RAID5, what would you recommend instead?

Reason I'm asking is that I also have a RAID5 with 3TB and 4TB drives. Had a RAID5 for years with always the biggest drives and never had problems with rebuilds.



#44 +LogicalApex

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 16:35

I don't mean to highjack the thread, maybe someone can just give a quick explanation. But if so many of you do not recommend RAID5, what would you recommend instead?

Reason I'm asking is that I also have a RAID5 with 3TB and 4TB drives. Had a RAID5 for years with always the biggest drives and never had problems with rebuilds.

People are too harsh on RAID 5. It is still my primary choice for RAID on data volumes...

 

Really what it boils down to is the larger the drives in the RAID the higher chance you are to encounter a error while reading the parity data on a rebuild. This is a concern due to the weak reliability of consumer grade disks and the huge expense of enterprise grade disks where this isn't an issue (yet). How bad this risk is really boils down to how your RAID controller will handle this. Hardware controllers from LSI usually handle it well, but crappy controllers I imagine don't.

 

For instance, WD says that a WD RED NAS drive will likely have 1 corrupt read in every 10^14 bytes read. For an SAS drive it is 1 corrupt read in every 10^17 a massive difference in reliability and cost...

 

RAID 5 isn't a problem on large disk arrays, IMHO, depending on what the hardware stack looks like. If you're using enterprise grade components you're probably a lot less likely to have issues. Of course, still always use backups.



#45 OP riahc3

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 16:51

Hello,

I don't mean to highjack the thread, maybe someone can just give a quick explanation. But if so many of you do not recommend RAID5, what would you recommend instead?
Reason I'm asking is that I also have a RAID5 with 3TB and 4TB drives. Had a RAID5 for years with always the biggest drives and never had problems with rebuilds.

Good question I asked too.

Read this thread where I ask about RAID5 but a lot more about RAID is talked about:

http://www.neowin.ne...tion-of-course/

Ill basically sum it up while Im changing from a large drive RAID5: Basically, on your RAID5, there can be a huge ammount of data. This can range from a lot of stuff but, generally in a home, all of that stuff is user replacable. Things that are not useable replaceable are, for example, documents, personal pictures....and thats about it.

Your legal movie, music, etc. rips are are replacable. So why have redundancy on that? The only reason is mine reason: Pure laziness :p Popping a drive out and putting another one in and, in Apple terms, "it all works" is a lazy mans drive. There are several drawbacks

Because of the RAID5 write hole and non battery RAID controllers, you could find yourself in a nasty way if your data is missing its parity bit when it tries to rebuild. Another downfall is if your RAID controller breaks or you move the drives to another system: You would have to find another exact controller or another same chipset.

This is why is better in 2014 to make Storage Pools (WS2012 term, its called several ways). Using software you can make a RAID5 but you can also make semi RAID5: Want to never lose that porn video? Keep a copy on all 4 drives.......while to the OS and the end user, you just see one file. A old song you downloaded for your grandma? Keep it only on one drive or at best a copy on two.

Lets you really customize and best of all: Should you format, just reinstall and enable the pool again.

Read the thread. People in there explain it WAY better.