53 posts in this topic

Posted

I'm in the market for a new TV to replace my 6 year old 42 inch Sharp LCD (D64U series).

 

Way back then, 120hz was the new technology.  We are years later and I still don't understand the benefit.  In fact, when I look at 120hz TV I think the way the image moves when the camera pans looks funny.  Am I crazy?

 

Is there a tangible benefit between 60Hz and 120Hz?  I can buy similar TV's, but the 60Hz will be cheaper with good picture.  Is the 120Hz worth it?

 

My needs:  Lots of TV and movies (Netflix and Blu Ray).  Some gaming on my Xbox One.  The occasional hockey game and every F1 race.

 

I'm looking for a 46inch TV (the largest that will fit in my space).  

 

Thanks for you input!

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Posted

Some people do not like 120Hz tv's because it makes movement smoother and for what ever reason makes it look off to them. I don't mind either one personally.

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Posted

120Hz and Smooth Motion are too different things. You can have 120Hz and disable all those motion smoothing features.

 

Also, 120Hz TVs do 24Hz, while 60Hz don't.

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Posted

120 Hz TVs are worth it for just the 24 FPS support of Blu-ray.

 

60 Hz TVs do 2-3 pulldown and suffer from judder. 120 Hz TVs are smooth.

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Posted

my samsung 60hz does 24fps for bluray

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Posted

my samsung 60hz does 24fps for bluray

Not proper 24Hz it doesn't, 60/24 = 2.5, you don't get 'half' clock dividers.

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Posted

my samsung 60hz does 24fps for bluray

It's lying to you.

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Posted

Buy whatever pleases your eye with the features you like. 120Hz isn't gimicy like 3D is, it does allow 24Hz bluray which is all the rage and does give a smoother picture, as well as your xbox one possibly benefiting from it. I am perfectly fine with what 60Hz TV's are able to do these days and generally watch those panels. I have a 120Hz TV and blurays are the only things that look right on it. The picture just seems 'slow' for lack of a better word.

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Posted

I'm in the market for a new TV to replace my 6 year old 42 inch Sharp LCD (D64U series).

 

Way back then, 120hz was the new technology.  We are years later and I still don't understand the benefit.  In fact, when I look at 120hz TV I think the way the image moves when the camera pans looks funny.  Am I crazy?

 

Is there a tangible benefit between 60Hz and 120Hz?  I can buy similar TV's, but the 60Hz will be cheaper with good picture.  Is the 120Hz worth it?

 

My needs:  Lots of TV and movies (Netflix and Blu Ray).  Some gaming on my Xbox One.  The occasional hockey game and every F1 race.

 

I'm looking for a 46inch TV (the largest that will fit in my space).  

 

Thanks for you input!

 

It all depends on the source and most of the times it's irrelevant. It was a big fad some years ago but now manufacturers focus on other things. All 120Hz (or higher) does is extrapolate frames that really aren't there so the screen can refresh faster. Nothing great comes of this, as every guide for gaming on a TV or watching good Blu-rays says to turn it off completely. You'd also be hard pressed to find a TV that doesn't have at least 100Hz support now, most of them do, they just don't advertise it because the technology has moved on and it's no longer a selling point due to its uselessness.

 

Chose a TV that has good panel technology, good contrast, good response times (for gaming), zero to extremely low backlight bleed and faithful blacks. Don't mind the Hz.

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Posted

my samsung 60hz does 24fps for bluray

 

No, it does 3:2 pulldown.

 

60 is not divisible by 24.

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Posted

All 120Hz (or higher) does is extrapolate frames that really aren't there so the screen can refresh faster.

 

No. It also provides for studderless 24fps playback. In fact that its primary purpose.

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Posted

sigh. the TV's are electronic. 60hz TV can also support 24hz. but it will display it natively at 24hz. 

 

hz are mostly meaningless numbers on modern tv's anyway. and pretty much all TV's for sale today support proper 24hz from bluray. 

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Posted

My TV says it's 600hz, is it lying to me? (Panasonic P50GT50). Can I do 24fps nicely? I haven't tried

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Posted

sigh. the TV's are electronic. 60hz TV can also support 24hz. but it will display it natively at 24hz. 

 

 

 

No, it will apply 3:2 pull down at 60 Hz.

 

You keep repeating this BS but it isn't true. If it was things like NVidia Gsync wouldn't be necessary.

 

*nothing* is displayed natively at 24Hz, not even film projectors in theaters. The flickering would give you a headache.

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Posted

My TV says it's 600hz, is it lying to me? (Panasonic P50GT50). Can I do 24fps nicely? I haven't tried

 

Maybe. There isn't really any way to tell without fancy equipment.

No, it will apply 3:2 pull down at 60 Hz.

 

You keep repeating this BS but it isn't true. If it was things like NVidia Gsync wouldn't be necessary.

 

*nothing* is displayed natively at 24Hz, not even film projectors in theaters. The flickering would give you a headache.

 

Gsync is a whole different can of worms.

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Posted

No. No. NO.

 

Auto-motion frame-interpolation whatever its called has NOTHING TO DO with 24Hz playback. NOTHING. Turning it off has NOTHING to do with 24 fps playback. The display is ALWAYS going to be 120Hz (dunno why you mentioned 100Hz since 100 isn't divisible by 24 either).

 

A 60Hz display with a 24Hz input will show one input frame for 3 frames, and the next input frame for 2 frames, this is called 3:2 pulldown.

 

A 120Hz display with a 24Hz input will show each input frame for 5 frames, called 5:5 pulldown.

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Posted

in this day and age, there is absolutely no reason to buy 60Hz TV

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Posted

No. No. NO.

 

Auto-motion frame-interpolation whatever its called has NOTHING TO DO with 24Hz playback. NOTHING. Turning it off has NOTHING to do with 24 fps playback. The display is ALWAYS going to be 120Hz (dunno why you mentioned 100Hz since 100 isn't divisible by 24 either).

 

A 60Hz display with a 24Hz input will show one input frame for 3 frames, and the next input frame for 2 frames, this is called 3:2 pulldown.

 

A 120Hz display with a 24Hz input will show each input frame for 5 frames, called 5:5 pulldown.

Pull down is used when the tv displays 24hz content AT 60. NOT when it's displaying 24hz natively. And no the flickering would give you headaches, this proves how much you know about the technology. It's digital, there is no flicker. A pixel does shift to black or white between every frame. Flicker is what you get on a scan line display, for example a god old CRT tv/display. A pixel on a LCD whatever refresh rate it's now won't flicker, it'll simply change color/state when the content it's displaying does.

Theaters also display at 24 native, modern digital projectors project at the native rate of the movie, wich in 100%-2 of cases is 24. And most theaters can display the other two at anything but 24 anyway. Older theater projectors are by their very film roll nature 24 FPS, I hope I don't have to explain that one to you. And those actually could theoretically have some flicker due to the frames around the ... Frames... But people have been watching them at 24 FPS for 50 years without headaches.

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Posted

The pull down you refer to on 60hz screens before, is what they referred to as "Movie mode" on most sets, any sets that has the 24 logo and branding and has that as a feature. HAS to, whatever the normal tv native refresh is, be able to display hdmi content sent at 24fps in NATIVE 24 FPS, no pull down, no duplicate or extra frames. It's what the logo is there for.

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Posted

Pull down is used when the tv displays 24hz content AT 60. NOT when it's displaying 24hz natively. And no the flickering would give you headaches, this proves how much you know about the technology. It's digital, there is no flicker. A pixel does shift to black or white between every frame. Flicker is what you get on a scan line display, for example a god old CRT tv/display. A pixel on a LCD whatever refresh rate it's now won't flicker, it'll simply change color/state when the content it's displaying does.

Theaters also display at 24 native, modern digital projectors project at the native rate of the movie, wich in 100%-2 of cases is 24. And most theaters can display the other two at anything but 24 anyway. Older theater projectors are by their very film roll nature 24 FPS, I hope I don't have to explain that one to you. And those actually could theoretically have some flicker due to the frames around the ... Frames... But people have been watching them at 24 FPS for 50 years without headaches.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Theaters don't even display 24 fps natively. They are either 48 or 72 with the shutter in front of the projector opening 2 or 3 times per frame of film respectively. True 24 Hz would be unwatchable.

 

LCD displays still run on a refresh clock regardless of whether or not the pixels are changing.

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Posted

Pull down is used when the tv displays 24hz content AT 60. NOT when it's displaying 24hz natively. And no the flickering would give you headaches, this proves how much you know about the technology. It's digital, there is no flicker. A pixel does shift to black or white between every frame. Flicker is what you get on a scan line display, for example a god old CRT tv/display. A pixel on a LCD whatever refresh rate it's now won't flicker, it'll simply change color/state when the content it's displaying does.

Theaters also display at 24 native, modern digital projectors project at the native rate of the movie, wich in 100%-2 of cases is 24. And most theaters can display the other two at anything but 24 anyway. Older theater projectors are by their very film roll nature 24 FPS, I hope I don't have to explain that one to you. And those actually could theoretically have some flicker due to the frames around the ... Frames... But people have been watching them at 24 FPS for 50 years without headaches.

As previous said, 60/24 = 2.5, YOU DO NOT GET 'HALF' CLOCK DIVIDERS, it staggers as a result. You personally might not notice it, but it definately staggers, and there is no way to get video recorded at 24fps to not stagger on a 60Hz display, it is not possible, it is not feasable, end of.

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Posted

That's an interesting discussion. :) From my own research, Lord Method Man is correct on this. No TV set refreshes at 24hz because that is way too slow and would cause intense flickering. TV sets refresh at their native rates and very few can ever refresh at any other rate than that; some 60hz offer a 48hz mode but even that causes significant flickering. What is meant by "movie mode" on 60hz TV sets is a "native 3:2 pulldown" i.e. performed by the TV itself on the 24p source.

 

Also, movie projectors do not project at 24 frames per second; they project at a multiple of that (up to 144), which is why, for example, most cinemas could natively display The Hobbit HFR (48fps per eye = 96fps) without requiring any modification.

 

Therefore, it is well worth it to get at least a 120hz TV, even if you dislike frame interpolation (TruMotion etc). Just disable it and enjoy judder-free 24p.

 

As for frame interpolation, it is nice to have on some sources. I keep it off by default, but for documentaries and scenes with a lot of slow panning motion, it works very well. Try watching Samsara with it, I think you'll be sold.

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Posted

Thanks for your feedback everyone.  It's a good discussion.  I'm going to pick up the LG 47LN5400.  Looks to have good reviews and it's on sale.  Great value for the money, it looks.  

 

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/lg-electronics-lg-47-1080p-120hz-led-hdtv-47ln5400-47ln5400/10243608.aspx?path=b4795c8cc0a2b6cac6f3488bc09ba8baen02

Looks like a solid choice if you don't care for 3D or any "Smart TV" features. If you plan on connecting this to a PC or console for gaming, make sure the set supports 4:4:4 chroma subsampling and a "gaming" or "pc" (i.e. low-latency) mode: I know similar models from LG do (my 47CS570 does and the LN5300 do).

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Posted

Looks like a solid choice if you don't care for 3D or any "Smart TV" features. If you plan on connecting this to a PC or console for gaming, make sure the set supports 4:4:4 chroma subsampling and a "gaming" or "pc" (i.e. low-latency) mode: I know similar models from LG do (my 47CS570 does and the LN5300 do).

 

I have an Xbox One and a receiver, so I really don't care about inputs or Smart TV features (part of what makes this such a great value).  I'm figuring out the features (lots of picture adjustments avaialble), but I'm still trying to discover the 120Hz settings (if it can be turned on/off; can't find TrueMotion settings).  It has a gaming mode.  Right now I've calibrated the TV using the Xbox calibration menu.

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