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rumour xbox one ps4

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#76 ctebah

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:14

That's incorrect. BF4 runs at 900p on the PS4. I don't know any others that are doing that, although AC4 was until they patched it. I don't think BF4 has been patched.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but not all ps4 titles are going to be 1080p/60. Your certainly right that more of them will be compared to the X1 at least right now. I'm not sure what you mean by 'game capabilities', but it seems clear right now that the ps4 hardware has a nice lead.

 

Hmm, I'll let you read what I said originally:

 

"all 1080p ps4 games", not "all ps4 games".

 

Also I never said all ps4 titles are or will be 1080p/60.  




#77 Lizardslap

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:24

to bad its a ubisoft game they can keep there crappy money grabben titles



#78 Andrew

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:24

I'm not sure why people forget their history so quickly. Just look at last gen.

How many multiplatform games either got poor ports or simply worse versions on the ps3? In some cases it was a lack of performance where a developer wanted it, but in many cases it was also the lack of interest in optimizing for the console. The 360 was the lead console for these ports and it was considered easier to develop on.

Today, we see things have flipped at least for now. The ps4 is the lead console and its considered easier to develop on. The X1 is now the one struggling in comparisons thanks to hardware issues and optimizations issues. The only question is if the rest of last gen repeats itself this gen.

 

That is only true for the first 4 years or so, then it split, and towards the end of the generation more PS3 sided. Some developers like Bethesda stuck with what they knew and stayed with 360 lead, however. You see that with Skyrim still playing like crap on PS3 and the DLC debacle afterwards. Activision, EA, R*, SE and Ubisoft all PS3 lead in the end.



#79 trooper11

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:30

Hmm, I'll let you read what I said originally:
 
"all 1080p ps4 games", not "all ps4 games".
 
Also I never said all ps4 titles are or will be 1080p/60.


Ah, that is true, I didn't catch that distinction.

The problem is that BF4 is upscaled to 1080p, so it is in fact a 1080p ps4 game just as all the X1 titles that are not native 1080p are still upscaled to 1080p. My point is that not all games on the ps4 that are running at 1080p are doing so natively.

But I guess that was your point as well, so sorry about getting your quote confused.


That is only true for the first 4 years or so, then it split, and towards the end of the generation more PS3 sided. Some developers like Bethesda stuck with what they knew and stayed with 360 lead, however. You see that with Skyrim still playing like crap on PS3 and the DLC debacle afterwards. Activision, EA, R*, SE and Ubisoft all PS3 lead in the end.


Yep, that's completely true and that is why I asked the question at the end: Will the rest of last gen repeat itself this gen. Will we see a few years of the ps4 as the lead console and then some 3rd parties switching sides and will that result in closer comparisons. Or does the hardware difference mean that there is absolutely nothing that will change things.

#80 Andrew

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:52

Yep, that's completely true and that is why I asked the question at the end: Will the rest of last gen repeat itself this gen. Will we see a few years of the ps4 as the lead console and then some 3rd parties switching sides and will that result in closer comparisons. Or does the hardware difference mean that there is absolutely nothing that will change things.

 

Well last generation the reason they swapped is because it was easier to port from PS3 to 360 than 360 to PS3 (hence why some ports actually benefitted from the PS3's horrible architecture).

 

Either X1 just doesn't have the horse power to be 1:1 and we'll see scarifices continue in one way or another, or it's going to take a lot of improvements to the drivers/software to help close the gap. Question is how much will the gap close and the problem is PS4 is going to constantly move the goal posts when it's not struggling yet.

 

Either you lead on PS4 without issues and have more work to do on X1.

Or you lead on X1 to help close the gap, and PS4 gains advantages regardless.



#81 trooper11

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:04

Well last generation the reason they swapped is because it was easier to port from PS3 to 360 than 360 to PS3 (hence why some ports actually benefitted from the PS3's horrible architecture).
 
Either X1 just doesn't have the horse power to be 1:1 and we'll see scarifices continue in one way or another, or it's going to take a lot of improvements to the drivers/software to help close the gap. Question is how much will the gap close and the problem is PS4 is going to constantly move the goal posts when it's not struggling yet.
 
Either you lead on PS4 without issues and have more work to do on X1.
Or you lead on X1 to help close the gap, and PS4 gains advantages regardless.



Exactly. We know there is a 50% gpu advantage. So basically, MS has to provide developers with the tools and support to make sure they are taking advantage of whatever MS built into the system that might close that gap. If the drivers, etc are poor now, that must change quickly. MS themselves have to remove any barriers possible. It just sounds like there are more barriers to maximizing performance on the X1 right now vs the PS4.

I have no idea if that happens. The ps4 will move the goal posts for sure, but I think the basic goal is 1080p/60 parity. If the ps4 is able to do more effects at that level, then so be it. We may see a clear difference the entire generation. Will first party titles be any different? Maybe not.

#82 Andrew

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:10

Exactly. We know there is a 50% gpu advantage. So basically, MS has to provide developers with the tools and support to make sure they are taking advantage of whatever MS built into the system that might close that gap. If the drivers, etc are poor now, that must change quickly. MS themselves have to remove any barriers possible. It just sounds like there are more barriers to maximizing performance on the X1 right now vs the PS4.

I have no idea if that happens. The ps4 will move the goal posts for sure, but I think the basic goal is 1080p/60 parity. If the ps4 is able to do more effects at that level, then so be it. We may see a clear difference the entire generation. Will first party titles be any different? Maybe not.

 

I think that's exactly what will happen. Both will achieve 1080/60 for every title, but the X1 will have to turn down AA or something to do so. And honestly I don't see an issue with that. I certainly wouldn't tell someone to avoid buying an X1 because of it.



#83 trooper11

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:18

I think that's exactly what will happen. Both will achieve 1080/60 for every title, but the X1 will have to turn down AA or something to do so. And honestly I don't see an issue with that. I certainly wouldn't tell someone to avoid buying an X1 because of it.


Yeah, it could be worse, it could be a WiiU level of hardware difference between the two. At least here, the X1 isn't generations behind in power, just enough that multiplatform owners like ourselves will be following each and every thread breaking down graphics in order find out which version to get :laugh:

#84 Andre S.

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:23

It just sounds like there are more barriers to maximizing performance on the X1 right now vs the PS4.

Based on what?



#85 trooper11

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:48

Based on what?


Complaints by developers and other leaks about poor drivers on the X1 or its more complicated hardware configuration.

I have no idea to what degree this is having an effect, but there are more complaints about this on the X1 side than the ps4 side. In fact, I have heard nothing but leaks of developers praising the ps4s ease of development and straightforward hardware design.

This does not mean the X1 will magically overtake the ps4 once these things are dealt with, just that its holding the X1 back.

#86 HawkMan

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 05:16

The PS4's power cannot be improved upon? Really?
So developers have already reached the full potential of the PS4, but they have not reached the full potential of the XBox One yet?
Is this seriously what you are trying to say is the truth of the situation?
That somehow one system is an open book and the other is a complete mystery? I ask again, is this truly what you are saying?
If this was how game development worked, the PS3 should have been capable of some of the most amazing graphics ever known to man, as it was definitely much harder to develop for than the 360 was and was much more complex.
Yet that was not the case.

So let me offer a bit more plausible scenario...
We are already seeing what is going to be the dominant trend throughout the entire duration of this generation.
Does this mean that the XBox One will not be capable of better performance as time goes on? Absolutely not. I am positive as time goes on some more tricks and optimizations will be found.
However, the exact same can also be said of PS4 development. Developers will continue to discover better and more efficient ways to develop on it, so it too will continue to improve.
As an owner of both systems I sure hope they do eventually hit 1080p and 60 fps on the One, however I am not holding my breath on this fact based on what we are already seeing. And I am vary confident in saying as I already have that the trend we are seeing now will continue, and the PS4 will be the dominant platform from a technical specifications perspective. This seems to be pretty clear by this point in time. 
By all means feel free to quote this reply if and when I am proven wrong and a multiplatform title is in fact better in all regards on the One. I just never see it happen. Hopefully they one day become equal to their PS4 offerings, but even that I am not holding my breath on, however I do not have any vested interest if they never do, as I have the option of playing those titles on the PS4, so I tend to view things how they are, not how I hope they will be.


Valid point, except you completely ignored the main aspect.

Yes, both consoles will have natural progression of optimizations. But the PS4 is a bog standard architecture where they already use it all. The One has several special elements in their custom APU architecture, elements that aren't used by any of the devs yet, and which will with the next dev kit be used automatically if the devs don't specially optimize them.

So the potential for performance increase is a lot higher on the One, add in the extra power MS is freeing from the kinect in non kinect games.

#87 McKay

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:11

Television sets are moving towards 4K and one of the Next Gen consoles that just came out can't do 1080p?  If this is true it's not good news for Microsoft.


Why do people think the Xbox can't do 1080? It isn't some impossible dream. It's just a resolution, the 360 and ps3 had some native 1080 games last gen. It would do 1080 on this game if they dialed back the graphics but they've opted not to.

#88 Aheer.R.S.

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:14

Why do people think the Xbox can't do 1080? It isn't some impossible dream. It's just a resolution, the 360 and ps3 had some native 1080 games last gen. It would do 1080 on this game if they dialed back the graphics but they've opted not to.

There it is, I have a 50 inch Panasonic and it never once bothered me that some games ran in 720p, some titles looked even grittier because of it, the one or two 1080 games I played on my now last gen, felt a little sterile, graphically speaking...



#89 JonnyLH

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:59

Valid point, except you completely ignored the main aspect.

Yes, both consoles will have natural progression of optimizations. But the PS4 is a bog standard architecture where they already use it all. The One has several special elements in their custom APU architecture, elements that aren't used by any of the devs yet, and which will with the next dev kit be used automatically if the devs don't specially optimize them.

So the potential for performance increase is a lot higher on the One, add in the extra power MS is freeing from the kinect in non kinect games.

As much as everyone disbelieves this, he is right.

 

The games which are running on these console right now are simple PC ports with hardly to no optimisation for the hardware its on, no matter what they say. From the reports and the rumors which have come around, it appears the DX11 drivers on the Xbox are very weak at the minute. This is compared to the LibGCN library which is supposed to be rather mature on the PS4. This was reported by the developers from the Tomb Raider games. 

 

At the end of a day, a modern engine will need considerable amounts of it re-wrote to support things like Shape, DMA's and the eSRAM + DDR solution properly. Using DMAs to support the eSRAM + DDR architecture is something which hasn't ever been looked at in x86 form. Once it has been took into consideration more, and even developers consider offloading non-latency sensitive processes into the cloud, then you're going to see some very pretty games. Albeit, mostly first party.

 

Although, the PS4 is simple and more-so a brute force attempt which has really paid out in Sonys favour. GDDR availability and price, DDR factory fire etc. When games are ported from the PC, they sit excellently on the hardware since the PS4 is essentially a fixed PC platform in-terms of development so more power is utilized more efficiently from the get-go. This is exactly what's happened regarding BF4 and Ghosts. For example, even the UI on ghosts in-game is 720p on the X1. Prime example of the time restrains companies had to get these games to a suitable standard on all platforms. Although, it does have more a sizable GPU. It's moreso how the software integration pays off for both platforms and how the hardware is utilised. Heck, we don't even know Sonys OS uses on the system.



#90 +Audioboxer

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 11:19

Why do people think the Xbox can't do 1080? It isn't some impossible dream. It's just a resolution, the 360 and ps3 had some native 1080 games last gen. It would do 1080 on this game if they dialed back the graphics but they've opted not to.

It's not that it can't do it, its just the most taxing part. MS' issue will forever be skimping on the GPU, its the most important for pushing 1080p and 60FPS and the PS4 GPU is just flat out better. Drivers can help but unless you live under a rock and haven't ever experienced PC GPUs vs PC GPUs you'll already know raw power will forever push a resolution/FPS gap. You'll also know drivers can improve even the $600 gfx card so those saying the PS4 is already peaking can keep dreaming.

Sure you can dial back texture quality to help hit 1080p, but that really starts to get ugly. Check the TR comparison pics.