21 posts in this topic

Posted

NSFW language

 

 

This video hits the spot with exactly what's wrong with "F2P", coined by Jim as the Free to Wait model

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Posted

Agree with the message but couldn't sit through the whole thing.  Jeez, that guy is annoying...

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Posted

Sadly I agree with him. It's a sorry state, but people vote with their wallet and F2P games almost always make up the top 10 in app stores.

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Posted

Great video, tell it how it is Jim.

 

Was going to post this, good minds think alike Andy  :shiftyninja:

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Posted

I don't agree with him.

The most pathetic is to sell a bugged game with terrible UI and obvious options missing like triple buffering or FoV at the full price of 60$ like Bethesda does. That is pathetic.

The AAA video game industry is so sick these days that I don't buy games at full price anymore. Some companies are even on my "do not ever buy again" blacklist. I wait 2 or 3 years to buy them at 5 or 10$. This way all the bugs are patched by either the company or the community (often the community) and if it is still unplayable like Dirt 3 is (keep crashing for me) then I just wasted 5$ so it's not a big deal.

I think it's pathetic to complain about free games when big publishers release unplayable crap at 60$.

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Posted

I don't agree with him.

The most pathetic is to sell a bugged game with terrible UI and obvious options missing like triple buffering or FoV at the full price of 60$ like Bethesda does. That is pathetic.

The AAA video game industry is so sick these days that I don't buy games at full price anymore. Some companies are even on my "do not ever buy again" blacklist. I wait 2 or 3 years to buy them at 5 or 10$. This way all the bugs are patched by either the company or the community (often the community) and if it is still unplayable like Dirt 3 is (keep crashing for me) then I just wasted 5$ so it's not a big deal.

I think it's pathetic to complain about free games when big publishers release unplayable crap at 60$.

 

The problem.. is when AAA publishers release games for 60$ each, then offer DAY 1.. DAY ######ING ONE DLC for an extra 20-40$.. Content that is READY to be released with the original game.. but instead of including it.. they make you ######ing pay extra for it.

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Posted

I don't agree with him.

The most pathetic is to sell a bugged game with terrible UI and obvious options missing like triple buffering or FoV at the full price of 60$ like Bethesda does. That is pathetic.

The AAA video game industry is so sick these days that I don't buy games at full price anymore. Some companies are even on my "do not ever buy again" blacklist. I wait 2 or 3 years to buy them at 5 or 10$. This way all the bugs are patched by either the company or the community (often the community) and if it is still unplayable like Dirt 3 is (keep crashing for me) then I just wasted 5$ so it's not a big deal.

I think it's pathetic to complain about free games when big publishers release unplayable crap at 60$.

 

But I don't think you understand... These mobile apps, people are spending hundreds of dollars... for pay to win..

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Posted

But I don't think you understand... These mobile apps, people are spending hundreds of dollars... for pay to win..

Then they just have to not pay for them. It's not like they have to pay to try the game. The game is free. You download it. You try the basic game and if you like it you buy things for it. I don't see the problem.

With 60$ AAA games this is different. These days most of them don't have a demo. And if they have a demo often it is released 2-3 weeks after the game is out. All important reviewers (paid advocate cause this is what they are these days) give those game 8+ best game ev4r. Everytime a CoD game gets 8 these days i'm like astonished. I can't believe Ghost was able to score so high on metacritic. 78 you got to be kidding me. Almost 8. When is the last time you saw a tipple A game getting in the low 6? This is weird cause I can tell you lot of them don't deserve more than the average score which should be 6 or at the very best 7. It is simply not happening anymore. There is a problem when the average is 8.5. Meanwhile really good indie games like Valdis Story don't even get reviewed at all ... I paid something like 4$ for Valdis Story. 15 times less than a triple A game. Triple A games are not 15 times better than Valdis Story not even close in fact lot of them are not better at all.

Anyway This is my opinion I know lot of people don't agree with me but I think triple A games are more a problem these days than free to play pay to win. At leats I can try free to play games before spending any amount of money on them. And reviewers don't give them 9 b3st g4m3 ev4r omg omg omg GOTY GOTY best ev4r buy it buy it buy it.

I got burned so often by stupid reviewers thinking a triple A game would be awesome cause it averaged close to 9 on metacritic. Buying it at full price without trying it cause there was no demo available just to find that the game was crippled with bugs and terrible UI.

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Posted

This guy is a moron. F2P is a fine business model. The people that abuse them though..... well......

F2P, to me, is quite nice; if you're not an idiot.

 

If you notice that the F2P you're playing isn't really a game but a cash grab, just stop playing. If you have a problem noticing when this is true or your too far in to quit now then you're an idiot. If at any point you purchase goods to accelerate progress, you're an idiot. If you actually find yourself enjoying it (looking at you "Clumsy Ninja"), then maybe kick some money the way of the Devs (Until Zynga buy it out, that is).

 

Don't forget the point of a game is the journey. Have you ever been the best in an MMO (or at least, really damn good), it gets boring. The point isn't the be the best, it's to become the best.

 

Anyways, in short, the problem with F2P games is: people (and the people that complain about F2P games).

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Posted

This guy is a moron. F2P is a fine business model. The people that abuse them though..... well......

F2P, to me, is quite nice; if you're not an idiot.

 

If you notice that the F2P you're playing isn't really a game but a cash grab, just stop playing. If you have a problem noticing when this is true or your too far in to quit now then you're an idiot. If at any point you purchase goods to accelerate progress, you're an idiot. If you actually find yourself enjoying it (looking at you "Clumsy Ninja"), then maybe kick some money the way of the Devs (Until Zynga buy it out, that is).

 

Don't forget the point of a game is the journey. Have you ever been the best in an MMO (or at least, really damn good), it gets boring. The point isn't the be the best, it's to become the best.

 

Anyways, in short, the problem with F2P games is: people (and the people that complain about F2P games).

 

.....

 

He points out that there are f2p games which use the f2p model well. I think he used the game loadout as an example. The problem with other some f2p games is that they aren't even games! You have to spend ridiculous amounts of time or money to determine that.

 

It's not really F2P if basic gameplay, which ends up going nowhere, has an admission price. At that point it is just a cynical scheme to make a few bucks.

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Posted

The problem with other some f2p games is that they aren't even games! You have to spend ridiculous amounts of time or money to determine that.

 

No you don't, you can deduce fairly quickly that this is what will happen while playing that game. And when a person does do this it is of no fault to the F2P model but of the idiotic user.

 

I'll admit in some circumstances it can be tricky to see through the veil of uncertainty while playing a new F2P so here is top 10 list of red flags:

1) It's made in Korea.

2) It's made by EA.

3) They refer to the in-game currency by anything that sounds overly cute.

4) There are monkeys, rabbits, penguins or <insert popular 'cute' animal here> predominately featured through-out the game.

5) In every opportunity that could possibly arise it blasts you with social media integration options. TELL YOUR FRIENDS!

6) It's made in Korea.

7) There is a logarithmic progression curve that is noticeable by any indication passed level 3 or a symbol thereof a suitable time frame to be level 3 (not all games have levels)

8) "Skip this/Speed" this up by paying X fun-lovey-dovey-bunny-coins

9) It's made in Korea

and

10) $1.00 = 1 Bazillion Trillion Megamillion fun-lovey-dovey-bunny-coins, "What a Deal!"

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Posted

He absolutely nails the issue with most free to play games and this is why I almost never play them.

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Posted

I most definitely agree that the F2P model is heavily abused right now, especially for mobile games. 

 

There is a wider issue here though and that is the fact that people buy into many of them.  Beyond our small hardcore group of gamers, there is a whole world of casual or average gamers that buy into it, supporting the practice.

 

So not much will change unless you convince most to not give developers a reason to attempt such games. 

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Posted

Think we should all just start making our own Android games. Games that are just games!! No bs schemes or currencys to buy.

Just a game, you know like you used to get when you bought say a SNES game.

Been seriously thinking about getting stuck in this summer and taking things into my own hands.

I bought a Nexus 7 18months ago and in the last year or so the prevalence of these scams and currency black holes has grown exponentially. Literally 95% or close to now of all games on Android have paid for currencys or wait locks of some sort.

Dont get me wrong you can still find many a gem that whilst containing these is still a playable game. The constant addition of these plus adverts has driven me far away from Android, and kind of wish I`d got myself a Vita instead.

I honestly dont get why the casual market puts up with this bs.

Anyways Id better go see if I can play The Simpsons Tapped Out this Millenia or not.....

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Posted

Think we should all just start making our own Android games. Games that are just games!! No bs schemes or currencys to buy.

Just a game, you know like you used to get when you bought say a SNES game.

Been seriously thinking about getting stuck in this summer and taking things into my own hands.

I bought a Nexus 7 18months ago and in the last year or so the prevalence of these scams and currency black holes has grown exponentially. Literally 95% or close to now of all games on Android have paid for currencys or wait locks of some sort.

Dont get me wrong you can still find many a gem that whilst containing these is still a playable game. The constant addition of these plus adverts has driven me far away from Android, and kind of wish I`d got myself a Vita instead.

I honestly dont get why the casual market puts up with this bs.

Anyways Id better go see if I can play The Simpsons Tapped Out this Millenia or not.....

 

That's my plan.. got a basic engine and test code all done (using GL).. it's now just a matter of actually coding it.. and getting graphics lol.

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Posted

No you don't, you can deduce fairly quickly that this is what will happen while playing that game. And when a person does do this it is of no fault to the F2P model but of the idiotic user.

 

I'll admit in some circumstances it can be tricky to see through the veil of uncertainty while playing a new F2P so here is top 10 list of red flags:

1) It's made in Korea.

2) It's made by EA.

3) They refer to the in-game currency by anything that sounds overly cute.

4) There are monkeys, rabbits, penguins or <insert popular 'cute' animal here> predominately featured through-out the game.

5) In every opportunity that could possibly arise it blasts you with social media integration options. TELL YOUR FRIENDS!

6) It's made in Korea.

7) There is a logarithmic progression curve that is noticeable by any indication passed level 3 or a symbol thereof a suitable time frame to be level 3 (not all games have levels)

8) "Skip this/Speed" this up by paying X fun-lovey-dovey-bunny-coins

9) It's made in Korea

and

10) $1.00 = 1 Bazillion Trillion Megamillion fun-lovey-dovey-bunny-coins, "What a Deal!"

 

 

Tell me again how the Koreans are out to rob us.

 

 

This isn't a list about anything except your mistrust of Koreans and a dislike of a cutesy factor. None of it deals with the fundamental issue of labeling a game as free to play when it's essentially the opposite. Accusing everyone of being idiots if they can't detect a raw deal is arrogant and condescending.

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Posted

 

Tell me again how the Koreans are out to rob us.

 

In the F2P market, they're out to make money; they're good at it.

 

 

This isn't a list about anything except your mistrust of Koreans and a dislike of a cutesy factor. None of it deals with the fundamental issue of labeling a game as free to play when it's essentially the opposite.

 

I never claimed it was and it quite obviously isn't. I said it was a list to show red flags that this game was going to be a problem. The problems have already been discussed. Do you need a list for that?

 

 

Accusing everyone of being idiots if they can't detect a raw deal is arrogant and condescending.

 

Yes, it is. I agree.

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Posted

Hello,

 

Personally he sounds ticked he didnt think of it first...

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Posted

 

 

I never claimed it was and it quite obviously isn't. I said it was a list to show red flags that this game was going to be a problem. The problems have already been discussed. Do you need a list for that?

 

 

 

 

No. Nor did I request one. You made a list. You could have made a far more useful one, and one less bigoted towards Koreans, like so:

 

1. Does the game emphasize spending real world money for invented in-game currency? Is the conversion rate of real world money and in-game currency confusing (e.g. buy 3454 gems for $4.99?) (MS were guilty of this with MS points. Even the big American companies exploited consumers this way)

2. Do you need to wait extended periods of time or complete excessively menial tasks in order to do basic things with-in the game?

3. Can you pay to skip waiting times?

4. Can you progress without paying money?

Etc.

 

 

 

Yes, it is. I agree.

 

 

Do you take some pride in being condescending and arrogant?

 

You have a perfectly valid point that consumers should beware when dealing with games, especially those on mobile devices. Calling people idiots because game companies are cynically using exploitative tactics to separate customers from their money with the promise of a fun gaming experience is just unpleasant and might contribute to, in some small way, the continuation of these tactics. After all, if consumers don't tell companies they don't like what they are doing, how else will they know or change?

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Posted

 

No. Nor did I request one. You made a list. You could have made a far more useful one, and one less bigoted towards Koreans . . .

 

I think you've taken my list far too seriously. Honestly. It's not a way for me to back peddle or beat around the bush, it was never meant to be taken very seriously. Calm yourself. I just expected a giggle or two what with the common preconception that all Korean F2P MMO's are P2W.

 

Do you take some pride in being condescending and arrogant?

 

I wouldn't say I'm proud of it, but I'm not ashamed of it either. I've found a nice balance imo. In your opinion I haven't. That's alright with me.

 

 

. . . Calling people idiots because game companies are cynically using exploitative tactics to separate customers from their money with the promise of a fun gaming experience is just unpleasant and might contribute to, in some small way, the continuation of these tactics. After all, if consumers don't tell companies they don't like what they are doing, how else will they know or change?

 

Calling people stupid for doing stupid things usually doesn't contribute to the continuation of doing said thing. In the rare case it does, it's either because the accused was really stupid or the accuser was wrong. I'm not wrong in principle, but I didn't sugar coat it and I could have said it nicer; that could be considered subjectively 'wrong'.

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Posted

I don't see what the problem is here, really.

 

There are two very distinct models - pay up front for a game or play a game for free and optionally pay for things in-game.

 

You can't expect someone to invest significant time, money, and resources into building a game without making some money back *somewhere* (in game purchases, advertising, merchandise, etc etc).

 

I think gamers these days got so used to the old model that they have this sense of entitlement that once a game is on their device of choice they should be able to play it without restriction or extra cost indefinitely, even if it cost nothing up front.

If you don't like the f2p model, just play traditional games. Sorted.

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