Polygon: MS needs to admit the XB1 Kinect is a peripheral, not a pack-in.

[Hedon]

It's probably because it's not as demanding as DL said, and as trooper11 said it's the other genres that the Xbox One is under performing, anyway there's a different topic for that so back to the topic of the Kinect. Yay or nay?

Forza 5 is indeed demanding. Not to mention, it's not the only 1080p/60fps game.

[spenser.d]

Not even considering the One until they offer a package that does not include the Kinect.  My guess is they will have one by the end of the year.

 

I wouldn't hold your breath. It's a part of Xbox One, not a peripheral. If you can't get over that, you won't ever get an Xbox One.

[Hedon]

Yup Kinect is here to stay. Great news for developers, gamers and media enthusiasts.

[trooper11]

:no:

50/50 chance they drop kinect or they cut the price without dropping it.

 

Sorry but that's not the case. If it can't be judged the console can't hit 1080 because one game is under, then you can't suddenly declare it can because another does. If it can consistently do something then the jury is out :yes:

What? The question has been: Can the X1 offer games that run 1080p/60. The answer is yes, it can.

If you want to change the question to say: Can the X1 offer all games at 1080p/60? The answer is no, it can't.

'can' is not a definitive word, so that means its possible, not guaranteed.

Every time someone tries to say the X1 can do it, there is the attack that no it can't becuase Forza 5 is not demanding enough to count. I just dont see how that changes the answer to the question. If you want to discount Forza, then ask a different question such as: Can the X1 run a game @ 1080p/60 that is from say the shooter genre or uses visual effects like 4xMSAA, etc.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

What? The question has been: Can the X1 offer games that run 1080p/60. The answer is yes, it can.

If you want to change the question to say: Can the X1 offer all games at 1080p/60? The answer is no, it can't.

'can' is not a definitive word, so that means its possible, not guaranteed.

Every time someone tries to say the X1 can do it, there is the attack that no it can't becuase Forza 5 is not demanding enough to count. I just dont see how that changes the answer to the question. If you want to discount Forza, then ask a different question such as: Can the X1 run a game @ 1080p/60 that is from say the shooter genre or uses visual effects like 4xMSAA, etc.

 

I think it's far more fair to judge with more than one title, especially when you take a selection of genres and not limit to those which aren't demanding.

 

Forza 5 isn't demanding because of the environments the game is built up of. If you can't see the difference between it and BF4 or AC4 then we can't help you.

[truthfax]

I think they'll cave and drop Kinect with a $100 price drop if sales continue the way they have last month and this month. Seems unlikely but possible they'd drop the price without removing Kinect.

[trooper11]

I think it's far more fair to judge with more than one title, especially when you take a selection of genres and not limit to those which aren't demanding.

 

Forza 5 isn't demanding because of the environments the game is built up of. If you can't see the difference between it and BF4 or AC4 then we can't help you.

Did I say Forza 5 was as demanding as those other games?

Who is 'we'? :laugh:

AC4 and BF4 are clearly more demanding. And what does this have to do with the question of the X1 being able to run any game at 1080p/60?

Hey, you you guys just want to say the X1 can't run games at that level, then so be it. If you would like to actually be real about it, then lets just agree that the X1 can play games at 1080p/60, but it has not proven it can do that in demadning genres like action adventure, fps, tps, etc. It has proven that in genres like racing and sports. This is not a false assessment in my opinion.

Also, let's remember that the ps4 has proven so far that it can run almost all games at 1080p and most at 60 as well. But that is not the whole story. It has also proven that it can do that with better visual effects in some cases and of course across all genres currently out. So this discussion about the X1 is in no way changing that other piece of reality.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Did I say Forza 5 was as demanding as those other games?

Who is 'we'? :laugh:

AC4 and BF4 are clearly more demanding. And what does this have to do with the question of the X1 being able to run any game at 1080p/60?

Hey, you you guys just want to say the X1 can't run games at that level, then so be it. If you would like to actually be real about it, then lets just agree that the X1 can play games at 1080p/60, but it has not proven it can do that in demadning genres like action adventure, fps, tps, etc. It has proven that in genres like racing and sports. This is not a false assessment in my opinion.

Also, let's remember that the ps4 has proven so far that it can run almost all games at 1080p and most at 60 as well. But that is not the whole story. It has also proven that it can do that with better visual effects in some cases and of course across all genres currently out. So this discussion about the X1 is in no way changing that other piece of reality.

 

That is what I'm saying. I'm also saying that 1 game out of the hundreds that will release in the lifetime of the console is not a decider (either way).

 

Consistently doing something is when we can decide.

[FiB3R]

We all know the hit Forza took in the visuals department to achieve 1080/60, right?

 

Not sure why people put it on such a high pedestal. The compromise is quite harsh.

[trooper11]

That is what I'm saying. I'm also saying that 1 game out of the hundreds that will release in the lifetime of the console is not a decider (either way).

 

Consistently doing something is when we can decide.

I had already said this before my previous reply, but its ignored for some reason.

Your basically saying that no one should say anything about either console becuase they have not been out long enough? I can agree with that, but most of the internet would not.

 

 

We all know the hit Forza took in the visuals department to achieve 1080/60, right?

 

Not sure why people put it on such a high pedestal. The compromise is quite harsh.

Its not that its on a high pedestal, its just one of the games running at 1080p/60 on the X1, along with the sports games.

Let's step back for a moment.

The question that started all of this was: Can the X1 run games at 1080p/60

The answer is: Yes it can.

Now, if you want to discuss what must be done to achieve that, then great, thats a perfectly reasonable point to make. Discuss all the visual effects that had to be cut to hit that number, etc.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

I had already said this before my previous reply, but its ignored for some reason.

Your basically saying that no one should say anything about either console becuase they have not been out long enough? I can agree with that, but most of the internet would not.

 

 

Its not that its on a high pedestal, its just one of the games running at 1080p/60 on the X1, along with the sports games.

Let's step back for a moment.

The question that started all of this was: Can the X1 run games at 1080p/60

The answer is: Yes it can.

Now, if you want to discuss what must be done to achieve that, then great, thats a perfectly reasonable point to make. Discuss all the visual effects that had to be cut to hit that number, etc.

 

Not that people shouldn't comment, that'd be impossible and it'll always be a talking point when a AAA game releases. But "the jury" is far from out when "x" can or can't do it.

 

But hey if people want to gamble a whole generation's reputation on one game that's their call. Talk about being against the odds though :/ Especially considering the reputation of the series.

[MindTrickz]

Polygon turned on their master.

[Hedon]

Forza 5 isn't demanding because of the environments the game is built up of. If you can't see the difference between it and BF4 or AC4 then we can't help you.

Forza 5 IS demanding. If you are not familiar with how demanding the game is with all of the physics in regards to driving the cars, all the physics related to the damage and how they affect the driving, the 64,000 layers of custom paint added to the vehicles on the track (in addition to the default paint jobs), and how those assets are retained on the track for those 16 cars, before and after damage, and on each piece...and yet so much more that hasn't been covered. If you don't think Forza 5 is a demanding game, we can't help you.

 

I think it's funny that people keep saying Forza is the only 1080p/60fps game on Xbox One. I wish people would research a bit more.

[trooper11]

Not that people shouldn't comment, that'd be impossible and it'll always be a talking point when a AAA game releases. But "the jury" is far from out when "x" can or can't do it.

 

But hey if people want to gamble a whole generation's reputation on one game that's their call. Talk about being against the odds though :/ Especially considering the reputation of the series.

Ok, we get it, Forza is not good in the visuals department. I'll take your word for it becuase I don't own the game and you are a long time 'fan' of the series.

I dont even like sim racing games, so it really doesn't matter to me. No one should focus on one single title and use that to categorise any entire platform.

So lets get beyond Forza since that is taboo, there are also the sports titles that are doing it, NBA2K14, for example. There are enough titles out right now that seem to show the X1 can hit 1080p/60. However, it also shows that more demanding games are not possible at that range. So less demanding games like sports or racing titles are possible, but beyond that is looking unlikely.

The ps4 is the opposite. There are enough games out now that most people agree that the ps4 will be offering mostly 1080p/60 titles going forward.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Ok, we get it, Forza is not good in the visuals department. I'll take your word for it becuase I don't own the game and you are a long time 'fan' of the series.

I dont even like sim racing games, so it really doesn't matter to me. No one should focus on one single title and use that to categorise any entire platform.

So lets get beyond Forza since that is taboo, there are also the sports titles that are doing it, NBA2K14, for example. There are enough titles out right now that seem to show the X1 can hit 1080p/60. However, it also shows that more demanding games are not possible at that range. So less demanding games like sports or racing titles are possible, but beyond that is looking unlikely.

The ps4 is the opposite. There are enough games out now that most people agree that the ps4 will be offering mostly 1080p/60 titles going forward.

 

I wouldn't say the PS4 is in the clear either. We've seen the frame rate split between 30 or 60 and some titles less than 1080. So far it's more consistently hitting it than not, but we're a long way from seeing what each console has to fully offer.

 

Sports titles on both are not good benchmarks, it's not an X1 only argument.

[trooper11]

I wouldn't say the PS4 is in the clear either. We've seen the frame rate split between 30 or 60 and some titles less than 1080. So far it's more consistently hitting it than not, but we're a long way from seeing what each console has to fully offer.

 

Sports titles on both are not good benchmarks, it's not an X1 only argument.

so you agree that saying the X1 cannot do 1080p/60 is incorrect?

I just think its wrong becuase we know of games that run at the level and because people are not asking the right question.

The right question would be: What does it take to make a game 1080p/60 on the X1?

That question can then expose all the differences in visual effects that would sepearete a game that is on the X1 at that level vs one on the ps4.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

so you agree that saying the X1 cannot do 1080p/60 is incorrect?

I just think its wrong becuase we know of games that run at the level and because people are not asking the right question.

The right question would be: What does it take to make a game 1080p/60 on the X1?

That question can then expose all the differences in visual effects that would sepearete a game that is on the X1 at that level vs one on the ps4.

 

Yes I agree, I've never said otherwise. I've shown concern that it can't do it consistently or that it won't be able to in future without consequences or "downgrades".

[Hedon]

so you agree that saying the X1 cannot do 1080p/60 is incorrect?

I just think its wrong becuase we know of games that run at the level and because people are not asking the right question.

The right question would be: What does it take to make a game 1080p/60 on the X1?

That question can then expose all the differences in visual effects that would sepearete a game that is on the X1 at that level vs one on the ps4.

75% of the Xbox games right now are all either 1080p/60fps or 1080p/30fps. Because the remaining 25% is NOT at those levels, some are taking that to mean that a minority equates the majority. As has been noted time and time again, developers have said that the Xbox One is only marginally less powerful than it's closest competitor. We have also heard that the Xbox One has been difficult to program for and obtain optimum performance. I clearly recall games in the early days of the PS3 being sub res and sub fps compared to the Xbox 360. Even GTA IV wasn't even HD on the PS3. It was early in the life of the PS3 (and Xbox 360). Finally, after more time with the PS3, we were getting more and more games that were consistently 720p as well as 60fps. Could you imagine if we took the first 5 months of the Xbox 360 and PS3 life and determined that they would never achieve the optimal performance based off of a few early titles? We would all sit around looking like clueless gamers. Just because GTA IV on the PS3 wasn't 720p doesn't mean the PS3 couldn't do 720p (hello GTA5).

 

I am amazed at how people have ALREADY called the console race over after a couple short months, and nearly 9 million console sales combined. 

[LaP]

There's already a topic about resolutiongate guys. This topic is about Kinect ;)

[trooper11]

Yes I agree, I've never said otherwise. I've shown concern that it can't do it consistently or that it won't be able to in future without consequences or "downgrades".

See, now that is a reasonable point. I wish more people fell in with that point. We could get past the silly point and get to the info that really matters.

Both consoles will face consequnces and downgrades as this generation goes on, especially in comparison to the pc, so its very important that when games are released for either console that we know what the developers chose to 'downgrade' or change in order to run properly on that console. Then we can combine that with our own eyes and decide if its a serious problem or not on a game by game basis. That will decide it for console vs pc or ps4 vs x1.

I think we get too bogged down in these absolute arguments that focus far too much on one piece of the puzzle.

There's already a topic about resolutiongate guys. This topic is about Kinect ;)

Kinect is a fairly taboo subject :laugh:

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

75% of the Xbox games right now are all either 1080p/60fps or 1080p/30fps. Because the remaining 25% is NOT at those levels, some are taking that to mean that a minority equates the majority. As has been noted time and time again, developers have said that the Xbox One is only marginally less powerful than it's closest competitor. We have also heard that the Xbox One has been difficult to program for and obtain optimum performance. I clearly recall games in the early days of the PS3 being sub res and sub fps compared to the Xbox 360. Even GTA IV wasn't even HD on the PS3. It was early in the life of the PS3 (and Xbox 360). Finally, after more time with the PS3, we were getting more and more games that were consistently 720p as well as 60fps. Could you imagine if we took the first 5 months of the Xbox 360 and PS3 life and determined that they would never achieve the optimal performance based off of a few early titles? We would all sit around looking like clueless gamers. Just because GTA IV on the PS3 wasn't 720p doesn't mean the PS3 couldn't do 720p (hello GTA5).

 

I am amazed at how people have ALREADY called the console race over after a couple short months, and nearly 9 million console sales combined. 

 

? I'm at work so can't get a list but this seems waaaay wrong. The only two games I know of at 1080p are Forza and Strider.

[trooper11]

? I'm at work so can't get a list but this seems waaaay wrong. The only two games I know of at 1080p are Forza and Strider.

Right now I think its about 50/50. I think its surprising to some that it would be that high simply becuase not many 1080p games are discussed for the X1 except say Forza. If you just went by disucssions, you might think Forza is the only 1080p game.

I dont know the resolution of every game, but if you start with the famous IGN reoslution list, its 50/50 of games that run 1080p/30 or 60 and then those running below that.

That list is incomplete though as it leaves off several arcade titles, Strider included, so someone would need to make a complete list to know for sure.

[Hedon]

? I'm at work so can't get a list but this seems waaaay wrong. The only two games I know of at 1080p are Forza and Strider.

 

1080p:

 

Forza 5

Tomb Raider

Strider

Max The Curse of Brotherhood

Dying Light

UFC

Kinect Sports Rivals

NBA 2K 14

Need for Speed Rivals

Skylanders

Madden 25

Marvel Super Heros Legos

Legos Movie

Project Spark

FIFA 14

Halo Spartan Assault

Zoo Tycoon

Lococycle

Crimson Dragon

 

are the ones I know of.

 

Microsoft has confirmed through Twitter that the next Halo is 1080p.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

There's already a topic about resolutiongate guys. This topic is about Kinect ;)

 

This