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#181 trooper11

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 21:06

You're right they did, but they also didn't make profit overall (and neither did Sony IIRC). They spent over $3 Billion on the 360 eating losses from day 1 with the failed business plan of making it back on licenses and accessories etc. It doesn't work, all 3 platform holders know it. You can't keep doing it or eventually you end up in a worse position than even Sony is today. With rumour of talks that some higher ups at MS want to cut the divsion or sell it, do you really think suggesting to your boss "it's ok, we'll eat the costs and worry later", is going to hold up? C'mon man. How many consoles need to be made before Microsoft see a profit in this industry? It's not sustainable. Heck, even cutting Kinect is a double edged sword because they've spent so bloody much on it you kind of feel like they've got no option but to continue with it just because it's a smaller loss, not because they believe in it.


Then MS is done as far as the console market goes, simple as that. If they are not willing to eat losses anymore, then they will be getting out of the console business soon. If they drop Kinect, they lose, if they cut the price without dropping it, they lose. Lose lose :laugh:

IF the new CEO at MS is done with the Xbox division, then I would assume we will start seeing some signs of that soon.


As for the indie comment to Compl3x, and this is a genuine Q, but when do indies become important that it's a selling point for Kinect, but they're not a selling point for the console itself? I'm confused after the Jimquisition topic...


First of all, did I say anything in that other thread that lead you to believe that I thought indie games were not valuable content? Don't confuse me with other posters.

Secondly, where in my post did I say that indie content was a selling point for Kinect? I made a joke about the fact that there would likely be more indie games trying to use kinect motion controls vs AAA titles. I made that comment due to the indie games announced at GDC. There are some trying to use Kinect motion controls, which is more than you can say for almost any other AAA title.

No need to stir up a hypocrisy discussion :laugh:


#182 OP Andrew

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 21:19

Then MS is done as far as the console market goes, simple as that. If they are not willing to eat losses anymore, then they will be getting out of the console business soon. If they drop Kinect, they lose, if they cut the price without dropping it, they lose. Lose lose :laugh:

IF the new CEO at MS is done with the Xbox division, then I would assume we will start seeing some signs of that soon.



First of all, did I say anything in that other thread that lead you to believe that I thought indie games were not valuable content? Don't confuse me with other posters.

Secondly, where in my post did I say that indie content was a selling point for Kinect? I made a joke about the fact that there would likely be more indie games trying to use kinect motion controls vs AAA titles. I made that comment due to the indie games announced at GDC. There are some trying to use Kinect motion controls, which is more than you can say for almost any other AAA title.

No need to stir up a hypocrisy discussion :laugh:

 

I don't think it was Satya that said it but Elop. I honestly don't think they'll make a profit on Kinect (or maybe even X1 at this rate), regardless if it stays in the box or not. I don't even think the PS4 is enough to save Sony either, it would have to take off to more than PS2 lifetime sales to do that probably.

 

I know you like indie games, I'm not saying your interest has been suddenly struck because now they may have Kinect support. It should really be an open question to the whole GH but your reply to Compl3x made me think of it in the first place. I'm not stiring as I said in my first comment, it's a genuine question. If there were a lot of indie games with Kinect support, would that be argued as a selling point, but the X1 isn't? Because I find that hypocrtical. Oddly enough I spotted a Gaf topic asking if PS+ convinced people to buy Vitas which isn't too disimilar to this Q. I know indies sold me on the Vita, but I'm sold on buying consoles for indies too as I explained in the Jimquisition topic. Hell, if indie games did start to make use of Kinect even I might be convinced one day.



#183 vcfan

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 21:45

LOL once again people don't know what they're talking about

Sony's Chris Norden says company underestimated demand for the peripheral, which has sold around 900,000 units to date.

http://www.gamespot....d/1100-6418411/

#184 OP Andrew

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 22:52

LOL once again people don't know what they're talking about

http://www.gamespot....d/1100-6418411/

 

How does that in any way prove that Kinect should be in the box?

 

Microsoft are behind on sales

The X1 costs $100 more

Kinect is currently under utilized & provides more to OS than gaming

Has already received 2 unofficial price cuts and 1 official price cut in UK when they were barely making profit to begin with

 

PS4 is leading sales world wide

costs $100 less

has an optional camera under utilized even in comparison to Kinect

Sony has raised the price in Canada

sold 900k Eye units

 

I mean, assuming you agree with the article that the PS4 Eye is successful and didn't need to be sold in the box or burden those who aren't interested, aren't you actually in agreement the Kinect is hurting X1? Or are you somehow trying to say PS4 Eye is failing yet Sony are seeing "underestimated" demand. Fill me in, cause I know whose shoes I'd rather be in.



#185 neoadorable

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 02:17

Please don't give them any ideas, Kinect is fine as a greeter and the occasional voice command receiver, we don't need more. There's no way i'm screaming "fire volley" at the TV for Ryse 2 or equivalent, that's what the LB is for. It's bad enough Fighter Within was destoyed by stupid motion-only controls...from what i can tell a perfectly decent fighter with great visuals was ruined just to satisfy a PowerPoint presentation slide.



#186 trooper11

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:04

I know you like indie games, I'm not saying your interest has been suddenly struck because now they may have Kinect support. It should really be an open question to the whole GH but your reply to Compl3x made me think of it in the first place. I'm not stiring as I said in my first comment, it's a genuine question. If there were a lot of indie games with Kinect support, would that be argued as a selling point, but the X1 isn't? Because I find that hypocrtical. Oddly enough I spotted a Gaf topic asking if PS+ convinced people to buy Vitas which isn't too disimilar to this Q. I know indies sold me on the Vita, but I'm sold on buying consoles for indies too as I explained in the Jimquisition topic. Hell, if indie games did start to make use of Kinect even I might be convinced one day.


I think we should stop treating Kinect as its own platform, something that needs exclusive content to exist.

Kinect is not like buying a Vita or a console for that matter anymore.

So the fact that some indie games might make use of it is no more a Kinect seller than it is an X1 seller. So if there is gaming content in some form that uses kinect in a way that interests people, than that is good. Do indie games sell consoles? I have no idea, I just know that I like many of them. Now I will say that most of my indie gaming has been on the pc, so that means I will buy very few on the ps4 or x1. If there are exclusives or games that make use of something that you can only do on one of the consoles, then I'll look at it there. If an X1 indie game uses kinect in a way that interests me, then that is a reason to get that version.

If all a console had was small scale indie type titles, that might not sell too well. Ouya was basically an indie only console and it didn't quite take off. A console needs a healthy does of all sides. The X1 is no different.


 

I mean, assuming you agree with the article that the PS4 Eye is successful and didn't need to be sold in the box or burden those who aren't interested, aren't you actually in agreement the Kinect is hurting X1? Or are you somehow trying to say PS4 Eye is failing yet Sony are seeing "underestimated" demand. Fill me in, cause I know whose shoes I'd rather be in.


Sony chose a different path and its working for them, they are the winners.

However, its not as simply as taking the two and saying MS just needs to emulate Sony.

The sales of the ps4 eye should have little or no baring on how MS must treat Kinect.



#187 Zedox

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 14:51

I'm waiting on ID@Xbox to allow me to make my Kinect only game. It's frustrating to develop for Kinect 1.0 because a big thing that I need for development is in the Kinect v2. :(



#188 BajiRav

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 15:02

Just one random thought on the topic,

 

6M PS4 * $399 = $2394M (console sold at minor loss)

4M XBO * $499 = $1996M (console sold at slim profit)

 

I don't see why Microsoft would want to remove Kinect. They are making almost as much money as Sony with substantially less market presence. Those who did not buy it at $499, will not buy it at $399 (because PS4 still has better specs).

The market will pick them both next year when they go below $300.

 

 

I don't think it was Satya that said it but Elop. I honestly don't think they'll make a profit on Kinect (or maybe even X1 at this rate), regardless if it stays in the box or not. I don't even think the PS4 is enough to save Sony either, it would have to take off to more than PS2 lifetime sales to do that probably.

 

I know you like indie games, I'm not saying your interest has been suddenly struck because now they may have Kinect support. It should really be an open question to the whole GH but your reply to Compl3x made me think of it in the first place. I'm not stiring as I said in my first comment, it's a genuine question. If there were a lot of indie games with Kinect support, would that be argued as a selling point, but the X1 isn't? Because I find that hypocrtical. Oddly enough I spotted a Gaf topic asking if PS+ convinced people to buy Vitas which isn't too disimilar to this Q. I know indies sold me on the Vita, but I'm sold on buying consoles for indies too as I explained in the Jimquisition topic. Hell, if indie games did start to make use of Kinect even I might be convinced one day.

Elop has never been directly quoted saying anything about selling Xbox. I think it was a lame FUD attempt that surprisingly stayed afloat.



#189 Kvally

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 15:58

Just one random thought on the topic,

 

6M PS4 * $399 = $2394M (console sold at minor loss)

4M XBO * $499 = $1996M (console sold at slim profit)

 

I don't see why Microsoft would want to remove Kinect. They are making almost as much money as Sony with substantially less market presence. 

 

Not to mention, it's selling much better than the 360 did by leaps and bounds.



#190 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 16:07

Only in the gaming world can something that's actually generating more revenue, be considered "the loser"  :rolleyes:
 

How does that in any way prove that Kinect should be in the box?

 
That aside, it's the most ironic thing i've read in a while.

#191 OP Andrew

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 16:52

Just one random thought on the topic,

 

6M PS4 * $399 = $2394M (console sold at minor loss)

4M XBO * $499 = $1996M (console sold at slim profit)

 

I don't see why Microsoft would want to remove Kinect. They are making almost as much money as Sony with substantially less market presence. Those who did not buy it at $499, will not buy it at $399 (because PS4 still has better specs).

The market will pick them both next year when they go below $300.

 

 

Elop has never been directly quoted saying anything about selling Xbox. I think it was a lame FUD attempt that surprisingly stayed afloat.

 

Exactly, which why it's pointless to shout total sale numbers for either 360 or PS3 (or even X1/PS4). Each sold 80 million and they lost money, yay! 50%+ of PS3's lost $300 each, why do people think it was just a disaster for them with 80 million consoles?!

 

Microsoft make like $30 on X1's I think? They now lose about £60 in the UK on each one, yay?

 

As for Elop, I said it was rumour and seeing as neither you nor I can say either way, we'll leave it at that. One thing is certain, Xbox has been a loss and if they don't make money they'll cut that loss.



#192 Kvally

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 18:44

Microsoft made record revenues (from Xbox) and record profits on their announcement in January for the company. I suspect they will take a loss for a little while longer on Xbox.



#193 trooper11

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 19:38

Microsoft make like $30 on X1's I think? They now lose about £60 in the UK on each one, yay?

 

I wonder how fast hardware costs will drop for these consoles since they are using more standard pc components. 

 

Would it be shocking if the X1 and ps4 were getting cheaper to manufacture within say 3-6 months of launch?



#194 compl3x

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 00:31

I dig this fierce competition. Big companies fighting for our dollars = cool ###### for gamers.

 

Let's try to remember we're all consumers. You might like one or the other, but the more competitive they are, we reap the rewards.



#195 trooper11

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 15:50

I dig this fierce competition. Big companies fighting for our dollars = cool #### for gamers.

 

Let's try to remember we're all consumers. You might like one or the other, but the more competitive they are, we reap the rewards.

 

 

 

So don't hate, just play then?  :laugh: