Xbox One without

[spenser.d]

Its clear now that its only a matter of when, not if they will drop the Kinect from the bundle.

 

How exactly is it clear?  There are literally no signs pointing to that outcome.

[Blackhearted]

I don't understand why Pachter news is allowed here. The guy doesn't contribute anything to gaming.

 

If we'll allow dozens of "doomed" threads in the nintendo section over the years, why would we not allow this?

[spaceelf]

If we'll allow dozens of "doomed" threads in the nintendo section over the years, why would we not allow this?

Because Nintendo su.....err, nevermind *grins*

[Anthony Tosie Veteran]

From last month:

 

 

And from before:

 

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/2041148/we_100_believe_in_kinect_says_microsoft.html

Would hardly be the first time they've changed stances.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Microsoft would be idiots if they dropped the Kinect, they need to provide a consistent hardware platform so game devs can build these things into the core of their game instead of as an extra addon that might not exist (Because then they either won't, or it won't add anyting to the gameplay)

That's the reason why saves were optional on the 360, because Microsoft didn't make storage a part of the core platform, it was always something extra added on.

[Rudy]

MS failed at showing people why it was bundled. I'm personally waiting for a bundle without it before i get an xbone

[the better twin]

2015 would be too late for such a price cut/kinect removal. Their sales have nose dived and they have units sitting on shelves.

They need to remove kinect and come in under the PS4 not at price parity because they still have the inferior console.

I can see them cutting 50 off the price after titanfall fails to shift consoles like they expect.

They are already making moves to try to improve sales (titanfall bundle) and that tells you everything you need to know about their current position.

Kinect does need to go though. The majority of gamers want nothing to do with it and it effectively means Microsoft are stuck at the higher price. Can see it gone end of this year/ early next so looking forward to that.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

...

They are already making moves to try to improve sales (titanfall bundle) and that tells you everything you need to know about their current position.

...

That they think it'll sell well?

Sony makes bundles too.

[HawkMan]

2015 would be too late for such a price cut/kinect removal. Their sales have nose dived and they have units sitting on shelves.

They need to remove kinect and come in under the PS4 not at price parity because they still have the inferior console.

I can see them cutting 50 off the price after titanfall fails to shift consoles like they expect.

They are already making moves to try to improve sales (titanfall bundle) and that tells you everything you need to know about their current position.

Kinect does need to go though. The majority of gamers want nothing to do with it and it effectively means Microsoft are stuck at the higher price. Can see it gone end of this year/ early next so looking forward to that.

 

They have had good solid sales all throughout. and they had units on shelves all the time, since they produced them at the same rate they where selling them avoiding Sony's situation of empty shelves. having units on the shelves doesn't mean bad sales.

 

and no sales didn't nosedive, they normalized after the holiday season. those first months where abnormally high because they where launch and holiday season. Sony nosedived nearly as much, or rather normalized, but because they had higher low sales than MS they could come out and say they sold so much better, of course neither gave numbers since they where both way down from the launch and holidays. 

 

You're cherry picking the numbers you use to analyze the situation and molding them to fit you scenario instead of making the scenario fit the numbers. 

[the better twin]

That they think it'll sell well?

Sony makes bundles too.

Ummm.....The "free game" is a value proposition. Its their way of trying to make it appear better value. 

[George P Global Moderator]

Doing game bundles with hot new title X isn't anything new, if that was some indication of failure then there'd be no console business anymore.  

 

Kinect isn't going anywhere, they'll drop the price and keep it in.  The sales difference between the two systems is purely because MS is still only in 13 markets.  I don't know why they haven't released in more yet, they should've by now.  13 vs 50 markets is a big gap, it's easy to see where the extra PS4s are going.

[the better twin]

They have had good solid sales all throughout. and they had units on shelves all the time, since they produced them at the same rate they where selling them avoiding Sony's situation of empty shelves. having units on the shelves doesn't mean bad sales.

 

and no sales didn't nosedive, they normalized after the holiday season. those first months where abnormally high because they where launch and holiday season. Sony nosedived nearly as much, or rather normalized, but because they had higher low sales than MS they could come out and say they sold so much better, of course neither gave numbers since they where both way down from the launch and holidays. 

 

You're cherry picking the numbers you use to analyze the situation and molding them to fit you scenario instead of making the scenario fit the numbers. 

Ha ha ok. Im cherry picking. Talk about head in sand. "Normalized" lol. PS4 is still very much in demand. Xbox One is sitting on shelves. You keep making out like thats a good thing  (Y) .

[theyarecomingforyou]

The question should be what does everyone accept as a 'demonstration of value' with regards to Kinect.

Some will say it must have games that make full use of it. Some will say it must be better integrated into the usage of the system (say improving the voice control system to be less rigid).

I do think Kinect can survive without dedicated games, but that requires MS to aggressively improve the features that make us of it now and be able to show how it can be used to augment most games even if that game is not a 'kinect' game.

Kinect needs dedicated games but it also needs to be integrated into all major releases, otherwise it's just a gimmick. At the end of the day the XB1 is a gaming console and if the Kinect isn't going to be used primarily for games it should be option, especially given its cost. At the moment I don't see any added value from the inclusion of the Kinect, only the added cost of the machine.

[the better twin]

Doing game bundles with hot new title X isn't anything new, if that was some indication of failure then there'd be no console business anymore.  

 

Kinect isn't going anywhere, they'll drop the price and keep it in.  The sales difference between the two systems is purely because MS is still only in 13 markets.  I don't know why they haven't released in more yet, they should've by now.  13 vs 50 markets is a big gap, it's easy to see where the extra PS4s are going.

Its a free game. It doesn't take a marketing genius to realise they're trying to improve the value proposition without reducing the price.

Sometimes I wonder if some of you are living in cloud cookoo land. The Xbox One is being outsold in every market and yet you think this is down to not being available in countries that are low priority for Microsoft?

[George P Global Moderator]

Its a free game. It doesn't take a marketing genius to realise they're trying to improve the value proposition without reducing the price.

Sometimes I wonder if some of you are living in cloud cookoo land. The Xbox One is being outsold in every market and yet you think this is down to not being available in countries that are low priority for Microsoft?

 

 

That's cute,  let's ignore the fact that game bundles have been done for years before this and just chalk it up to weak sales.   I never said it wasn't a value proposition, sure it is.  What I did say is that doing game bundles isn't a indication of poor sales,  The last gen consoles had bundles left and right.  The ones before that had them to, we all know how those did.

 

Is the PS4 outselling the XB1, yes, but you think  being in 3x the markets doesn't account for lots of that?   I'm betting that at least 1million comes from those extra markets, easy. 

[compl3x]

Kinect is part of the Xbox One experience. If they unbundle Kinect, they might as well just unbundle the controllers, unbundle the power cord, unbundle the HDMI cord, and maybe even unbundle the blu-ray player.

 

 

 

Absolutely ridiculous statement. 

[the better twin]

That's cute,  let's ignore the fact that game bundles have been done for years before this and just chalk it up to weak sales.   I never said it wasn't a value proposition, sure it is.  What I did say is that doing game bundles isn't a indication of poor sales,  The last gen consoles had bundles left and right.  The ones before that had them to, we all know how those did.

 

Is the PS4 outselling the XB1, yes, but you think  being in 3x the markets doesn't account for lots of that?   I'm betting that at least 1million comes from those extra markets, easy. 

Well when you partner the fact that they are behind in sales and have had a very disappointing January and release PR for a free game special offer the likely indication is that it is an effort to improve sales, no?

 

I also think you are overestimating demand in those markets. PS4 is ahead in all the key territories and is likely to further extend the lead with its current momentum, the markets you talk of are very small by comparison and are unlikely to shift too many units. Heck i know some in those markets are importing unsold units from places like Germany. 

[George P Global Moderator]

Well when you partner the fact that they are behind in sales and have had a very disappointing January and release PR for a free game special offer the likely indication is that it is an effort to improve sales, no?

 

I also think you are overestimating demand in those markets. PS4 is ahead in all the key territories and is likely to further extend the lead with its current momentum, the markets you talk of are very small by comparison and are unlikely to shift too many units. Heck i know some in those markets are importing unsold units from places like Germany. 

 

If I was overestimating I'd say it was 2 million, :P   Everyone bundle is done to push sales, sales is the name of the game, that's still not counter to my point though.  We've had bundles done time and again, even when systems have been selling well.  There's always new people to get to buy your system, if they see hot new game X and lack the console already then the bundle just makes the deal that more easy to sell. 

 

I think momentum will slow, and why I think that is because the core gaming market, who is rushing out to buy the new systems now, is small.   We've seen a slowdown already after the holidays, and outside of titanfall I don't know of any big hit game coming to either system right now.    Sony got a big boost from releasing in Japan, that'll keep them going for a bit, but the other key markets are already slowing down.

[HawkMan]

Ha ha ok. Im cherry picking. Talk about head in sand. "Normalized" lol. PS4 is still very much in demand. Xbox One is sitting on shelves. You keep making out like thats a good thing  (Y) .

 

Yes you are cherry picking. according to sources the numbers that sony and MS won't reveal is somewhere in the range of 150-200k for MS and ~300k for Sony.

 

that is a MAJOR drop for both consoles, BUT it's the normal figures you would expect to see in the low post holiday times. Or did you expect the PS4 to sell a million+ a month forever ? they have neither the stock nor production for that. they could barely manage it for 2-3 months with several months of pre production and all the factories working overtime(i.e. costly, so they actually make significantly less on these than the later ones since production costs are higher on such high volume production).

 

So percentage wise the latest Sony numbers are better than MS, but in actual numbers, it's not such a big deal. 

 

So maybe when you talk about burying your head in the sand, maybe you should get your own head up for some air and look at ALL the numbers and at history.  Not just cherry pick the numbers that fit your scenario.  and whatever way you put it, the One is hardly selling bad, even if it's not selling as well as the PS4 it's not selling bad. 

[Hedon]

Would hardly be the first time they've changed stances.

That's all fine and dandy. But that doesn't take away from the facts I just posted.

Absolutely ridiculous statement.

Your opinion is noted.

[HawkMan]

I got as far as "Industry analyst Michael Pachter believes Microsoft..." 

 

Isn't this the same guy who said next gen was dead, just before they both went on to make brilliant sales figures in terms of the previous generation. You can literally bet the opposite will happen when this "lead analyst" comes out with anything.

 

That's only one of his gems. pretty much every gaming related prediction he's given as turned out the opposite. I think there was one exception, and that was so obvious you didn't need an analyst to guess it, and even then he only got it partially. 

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

Ummm.....The "free game" is a value proposition. Its their way of trying to make it appear better value.

Ok, and? How does that have any barings on the sale numbers?

Hell, the PS4 launched with a bundle in the US (Remember the whole issue with Watch_Dogs?), it has nothing to do with how weak or strong the console is, and everything to do with making said bundle a more attractive option when you're choosing whether to buy a plain console or one that comes with a game.

[Skiver Veteran]

I literarally can't believe we are still having discussions of how much of a "failure" the xbox is and why MS is in trouble. 

 

The console sold incredibly well in its first few months, because of this the drop off was a bit steeper. Yes the PS continues to sell well but it doesn't make the XB1 a failure, its just less desirable.

 

Do you expect Ferrari to change and build a ?20K car because Ford outsell them year by year? No, because they are still making profit and thats all they need, for now at least. We aren't even 6 months into the lifespan and people are already trying to write it off. 

 

Come back in a few years and let me know how things are doing then.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Ok, and? How does that have any barings on the sale numbers?

Hell, the PS4 launched with a bundle in the US (Remember the whole issue with Watch_Dogs?), it has nothing to do with how weak or strong the console is, and everything to do with making said bundle a more attractive option when you're choosing whether to buy a plain console or one that comes with a game.

 

MS is bundling a game here in the UK for less than the RRP of the original console price (?399 - retailers have dropped it even lower, going down to ?360). Console launched at ?425. Sony's bundles all cost more than the original RRP, albeit it less than what it would cost for the console RRP + the game separately. That is why the situations are a little different. Both are value propositions, but you can see the difference between the scenarios. One company is bringing the price under what they launched for, the other is knocking off ?10~20 of what it would cost you for the console on it's own and buying the game separately.

 

Anyway the whole argument of bundling really just comes down to the kinect argument. Having something included by default that raises the price (MS confirmed), and the costs of it are not eaten at the companies end.

[the better twin]

Come back in a few years and let me know how things are doing then.

Ha ha well some in here were still wanting Microsoft to include DRM and all the other anti consumer features in the console and were claiming the reversal had more to do with "Internet cry babies" than initial sales indicators so even if PS4 continues its 2:1 lead im sure it will be down to Microsoft not releasing the Xbox One in Zimbabwe :rolleyes: .