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Posted

That's not how I remember it! The PS3 didn't take off sales wise until 2009 with the introduction of the Slim and price cut.

Then his point is true, those prices did not hurt them in the long run. It turned around over time.

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Then his point is true, those prices did not hurt them in the long run. It turned around over time.

 

Not to give a history lesson, but Sony also did some feature cutting to get the new price :p;)

 

 

Yea...in the long run. A price cut and a smaller XB1 may be all that's needed, not taking away the Kinect. What i'm saying is that the price is the only reason why people are pouting...not the Kinect. If it was the same price, people wouldn't be as ######.

 

They still didn't turn a profit for another year. The Slim price cut got people to buy but it came at a cost, both to the hardware and their wallet.

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Yea...in the long run. A price cut and a smaller XB1 may be all that's needed, not taking away the Kinect. What i'm saying is that the price is the only reason why people are pouting...not the Kinect. If it was the same price, people wouldn't be as ######.

 

 

The problem is taking away the Kinect is the most obvious cost-cutting measure. Unless MS find a method of creating Kinects for free or they are willing to take the hit of the cost of its production then how are they going to be able to match the PS4's price?

 

The reality is we'll have to wait and see. If more games have the Kinect integrated into play and the One starts to catch up to PS4 sales they mightn't even have to consider dropping the Kinect.

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Not to give a history lesson, but Sony also did some feature cutting to get the new price :p;)

They still didn't turn a profit for another year. The Slim price cut got people to buy but it came at a cost, both to the hardware and their wallet.

Yeah, drop Kinect, that's the basic gist of this point.

But if we want to be real about it, MS was also able to drop the price of the 360 without dropping features as Sony did. There are ways to cut pricing without dropping major features.

And yes, before its even said, I know Kinect is not considered a major feature, but to MS it is.

 

The problem is taking away the Kinect is the most obvious cost-cutting measure. Unless MS find a method of creating Kinects for free or they are willing to take the hit of the cost of its production then how are they going to be able to match the PS4's price?

 

The reality is we'll have to wait and see. If more games have the Kinect integrated into play and the One starts to catch up to PS4 sales they mightn't even have to consider dropping the Kinect.

Don't be shocked if MS decided to eat some losses to match Sony's pricing.

Oh and don't expect a suddenly onslaught of motion controlled games. What you will likely see is more hybrid games that use some of its features and then a handful of motion controlled games. Heck, you will probably see more indie games that try to use kinect's motion controls than AAA titles.

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Yeah, drop Kinect, that's the basic gist of this point.

But if we want to be real about it, MS was also able to drop the price of the 360 without dropping features as Sony did. There are ways to cut pricing without dropping major features.

And yes, before its even said, I know Kinect is not considered a major feature, but to MS it is.

Don't be shocked if MS decided to eat some losses to match Sony's pricing.

Oh and don't expect a suddenly onslaught of motion controlled games. What you will likely see is more hybrid games that use some of its features and then a handful of motion controlled games. Heck, you will probably see more indie games that try to use kinect's motion controls than AAA titles.

 

You're right they did, but they also didn't make profit overall (and neither did Sony IIRC). They spent over $3 Billion on the 360 eating losses from day 1 with the failed business plan of making it back on licenses and accessories etc. It doesn't work, all 3 platform holders know it. You can't keep doing it or eventually you end up in a worse position than even Sony is today. With rumour of talks that some higher ups at MS want to cut the divsion or sell it, do you really think suggesting to your boss "it's ok, we'll eat the costs and worry later", is going to hold up? C'mon man. How many consoles need to be made before Microsoft see a profit in this industry? It's not sustainable. Heck, even cutting Kinect is a double edged sword because they've spent so bloody much on it you kind of feel like they've got no option but to continue with it just because it's a smaller loss, not because they believe in it.

 

As for the indie comment to Compl3x, and this is a genuine Q, but when do indies become important that it's a selling point for Kinect, but they're not a selling point for the console itself? I'm confused after the Jimquisition topic...

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You're right they did, but they also didn't make profit overall (and neither did Sony IIRC). They spent over $3 Billion on the 360 eating losses from day 1 with the failed business plan of making it back on licenses and accessories etc. It doesn't work, all 3 platform holders know it. You can't keep doing it or eventually you end up in a worse position than even Sony is today. With rumour of talks that some higher ups at MS want to cut the divsion or sell it, do you really think suggesting to your boss "it's ok, we'll eat the costs and worry later", is going to hold up? C'mon man. How many consoles need to be made before Microsoft see a profit in this industry? It's not sustainable. Heck, even cutting Kinect is a double edged sword because they've spent so bloody much on it you kind of feel like they've got no option but to continue with it just because it's a smaller loss, not because they believe in it.

Then MS is done as far as the console market goes, simple as that. If they are not willing to eat losses anymore, then they will be getting out of the console business soon. If they drop Kinect, they lose, if they cut the price without dropping it, they lose. Lose lose :laugh:

IF the new CEO at MS is done with the Xbox division, then I would assume we will start seeing some signs of that soon.

As for the indie comment to Compl3x, and this is a genuine Q, but when do indies become important that it's a selling point for Kinect, but they're not a selling point for the console itself? I'm confused after the Jimquisition topic...

First of all, did I say anything in that other thread that lead you to believe that I thought indie games were not valuable content? Don't confuse me with other posters.

Secondly, where in my post did I say that indie content was a selling point for Kinect? I made a joke about the fact that there would likely be more indie games trying to use kinect motion controls vs AAA titles. I made that comment due to the indie games announced at GDC. There are some trying to use Kinect motion controls, which is more than you can say for almost any other AAA title.

No need to stir up a hypocrisy discussion :laugh:

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Then MS is done as far as the console market goes, simple as that. If they are not willing to eat losses anymore, then they will be getting out of the console business soon. If they drop Kinect, they lose, if they cut the price without dropping it, they lose. Lose lose :laugh:

IF the new CEO at MS is done with the Xbox division, then I would assume we will start seeing some signs of that soon.

First of all, did I say anything in that other thread that lead you to believe that I thought indie games were not valuable content? Don't confuse me with other posters.

Secondly, where in my post did I say that indie content was a selling point for Kinect? I made a joke about the fact that there would likely be more indie games trying to use kinect motion controls vs AAA titles. I made that comment due to the indie games announced at GDC. There are some trying to use Kinect motion controls, which is more than you can say for almost any other AAA title.

No need to stir up a hypocrisy discussion :laugh:

 

I don't think it was Satya that said it but Elop. I honestly don't think they'll make a profit on Kinect (or maybe even X1 at this rate), regardless if it stays in the box or not. I don't even think the PS4 is enough to save Sony either, it would have to take off to more than PS2 lifetime sales to do that probably.

 

I know you like indie games, I'm not saying your interest has been suddenly struck because now they may have Kinect support. It should really be an open question to the whole GH but your reply to Compl3x made me think of it in the first place. I'm not stiring as I said in my first comment, it's a genuine question. If there were a lot of indie games with Kinect support, would that be argued as a selling point, but the X1 isn't? Because I find that hypocrtical. Oddly enough I spotted a Gaf topic asking if PS+ convinced people to buy Vitas which isn't too disimilar to this Q. I know indies sold me on the Vita, but I'm sold on buying consoles for indies too as I explained in the Jimquisition topic. Hell, if indie games did start to make use of Kinect even I might be convinced one day.

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LOL once again people don't know what they're talking about

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps4-camera-severely-supply-constrained/1100-6418411/

 

How does that in any way prove that Kinect should be in the box?

 

Microsoft are behind on sales

The X1 costs $100 more

Kinect is currently under utilized & provides more to OS than gaming

Has already received 2 unofficial price cuts and 1 official price cut in UK when they were barely making profit to begin with

 

PS4 is leading sales world wide

costs $100 less

has an optional camera under utilized even in comparison to Kinect

Sony has raised the price in Canada

sold 900k Eye units

 

I mean, assuming you agree with the article that the PS4 Eye is successful and didn't need to be sold in the box or burden those who aren't interested, aren't you actually in agreement the Kinect is hurting X1? Or are you somehow trying to say PS4 Eye is failing yet Sony are seeing "underestimated" demand. Fill me in, cause I know whose shoes I'd rather be in.

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Posted

Please don't give them any ideas, Kinect is fine as a greeter and the occasional voice command receiver, we don't need more. There's no way i'm screaming "fire volley" at the TV for Ryse 2 or equivalent, that's what the LB is for. It's bad enough Fighter Within was destoyed by stupid motion-only controls...from what i can tell a perfectly decent fighter with great visuals was ruined just to satisfy a PowerPoint presentation slide.

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I know you like indie games, I'm not saying your interest has been suddenly struck because now they may have Kinect support. It should really be an open question to the whole GH but your reply to Compl3x made me think of it in the first place. I'm not stiring as I said in my first comment, it's a genuine question. If there were a lot of indie games with Kinect support, would that be argued as a selling point, but the X1 isn't? Because I find that hypocrtical. Oddly enough I spotted a Gaf topic asking if PS+ convinced people to buy Vitas which isn't too disimilar to this Q. I know indies sold me on the Vita, but I'm sold on buying consoles for indies too as I explained in the Jimquisition topic. Hell, if indie games did start to make use of Kinect even I might be convinced one day.

I think we should stop treating Kinect as its own platform, something that needs exclusive content to exist.

Kinect is not like buying a Vita or a console for that matter anymore.

So the fact that some indie games might make use of it is no more a Kinect seller than it is an X1 seller. So if there is gaming content in some form that uses kinect in a way that interests people, than that is good. Do indie games sell consoles? I have no idea, I just know that I like many of them. Now I will say that most of my indie gaming has been on the pc, so that means I will buy very few on the ps4 or x1. If there are exclusives or games that make use of something that you can only do on one of the consoles, then I'll look at it there. If an X1 indie game uses kinect in a way that interests me, then that is a reason to get that version.

If all a console had was small scale indie type titles, that might not sell too well. Ouya was basically an indie only console and it didn't quite take off. A console needs a healthy does of all sides. The X1 is no different.

 

I mean, assuming you agree with the article that the PS4 Eye is successful and didn't need to be sold in the box or burden those who aren't interested, aren't you actually in agreement the Kinect is hurting X1? Or are you somehow trying to say PS4 Eye is failing yet Sony are seeing "underestimated" demand. Fill me in, cause I know whose shoes I'd rather be in.

Sony chose a different path and its working for them, they are the winners.

However, its not as simply as taking the two and saying MS just needs to emulate Sony.

The sales of the ps4 eye should have little or no baring on how MS must treat Kinect.

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I'm waiting on ID@Xbox to allow me to make my Kinect only game. It's frustrating to develop for Kinect 1.0 because a big thing that I need for development is in the Kinect v2. :(

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Just one random thought on the topic,

 

6M PS4 * $399 = $2394M (console sold at minor loss)

4M XBO * $499 = $1996M (console sold at slim profit)

 

I don't see why Microsoft would want to remove Kinect. They are making almost as much money as Sony with substantially less market presence. Those who did not buy it at $499, will not buy it at $399 (because PS4 still has better specs).

The market will pick them both next year when they go below $300.

 

 

I don't think it was Satya that said it but Elop. I honestly don't think they'll make a profit on Kinect (or maybe even X1 at this rate), regardless if it stays in the box or not. I don't even think the PS4 is enough to save Sony either, it would have to take off to more than PS2 lifetime sales to do that probably.

 

I know you like indie games, I'm not saying your interest has been suddenly struck because now they may have Kinect support. It should really be an open question to the whole GH but your reply to Compl3x made me think of it in the first place. I'm not stiring as I said in my first comment, it's a genuine question. If there were a lot of indie games with Kinect support, would that be argued as a selling point, but the X1 isn't? Because I find that hypocrtical. Oddly enough I spotted a Gaf topic asking if PS+ convinced people to buy Vitas which isn't too disimilar to this Q. I know indies sold me on the Vita, but I'm sold on buying consoles for indies too as I explained in the Jimquisition topic. Hell, if indie games did start to make use of Kinect even I might be convinced one day.

Elop has never been directly quoted saying anything about selling Xbox. I think it was a lame FUD attempt that surprisingly stayed afloat.

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Just one random thought on the topic,

 

6M PS4 * $399 = $2394M (console sold at minor loss)

4M XBO * $499 = $1996M (console sold at slim profit)

 

I don't see why Microsoft would want to remove Kinect. They are making almost as much money as Sony with substantially less market presence. 

 

Not to mention, it's selling much better than the 360 did by leaps and bounds.

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Only in the gaming world can something that's actually generating more revenue, be considered "the loser"  :rolleyes:

 

How does that in any way prove that Kinect should be in the box?

 

That aside, it's the most ironic thing i've read in a while.

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Just one random thought on the topic,

 

6M PS4 * $399 = $2394M (console sold at minor loss)

4M XBO * $499 = $1996M (console sold at slim profit)

 

I don't see why Microsoft would want to remove Kinect. They are making almost as much money as Sony with substantially less market presence. Those who did not buy it at $499, will not buy it at $399 (because PS4 still has better specs).

The market will pick them both next year when they go below $300.

 

 

Elop has never been directly quoted saying anything about selling Xbox. I think it was a lame FUD attempt that surprisingly stayed afloat.

 

Exactly, which why it's pointless to shout total sale numbers for either 360 or PS3 (or even X1/PS4). Each sold 80 million and they lost money, yay! 50%+ of PS3's lost $300 each, why do people think it was just a disaster for them with 80 million consoles?!

 

Microsoft make like $30 on X1's I think? They now lose about

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Microsoft made record revenues (from Xbox) and record profits on their announcement in January for the company. I suspect they will take a loss for a little while longer on Xbox.

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Microsoft make like $30 on X1's I think? They now lose about

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I dig this fierce competition. Big companies fighting for our dollars = cool ###### for gamers.

 

Let's try to remember we're all consumers. You might like one or the other, but the more competitive they are, we reap the rewards.

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I dig this fierce competition. Big companies fighting for our dollars = cool #### for gamers.

 

Let's try to remember we're all consumers. You might like one or the other, but the more competitive they are, we reap the rewards.

 

 

 

So don't hate, just play then?  :laugh:

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Kinect is part of the Xbox One experience. If they unbundle Kinect, they might as well just unbundle the controllers, unbundle the power cord, unbundle the HDMI cord, and maybe even unbundle the blu-ray player.

 

Kinect is here to stay, and that is great news for gamers. We will retain developer support. 

This. How can the Kinect be irrelevant? It's part of the whole One experience.

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People shouldn't count retail price drops on the XB1 in the UK as coming from MS, I don't think they are.  Any extra "loss" is out of the retailers pockets unless it's a across the board global price cut coming from MS, which it isn't, it's isolated to the UK.    Cutting the price on something you already took stock of is on you not the company you bought it from.   Besides, retail has never, and never will, make money from selling the consoles, all the money they make comes from the games and accessories,  and if the retailer takes an extra $50-$60 hit on selling you the console then they're banking on the attach rate of the system to make the profit back, so I think the XB1 has a 2:1 attach rate?  So, $50 or so hit on the hardware but then they'll sell you those 2 games or that extra controller and one game and make money. 

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Posted

Molyneux is irrelevant these days. His opinion doesn't mean anything

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Oh. But he's making Godus... Which surprisingly is nothing at all as grand as he promised ;)

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