Couple kicked out of McDonald's, for over-staying

[theyarecomingforyou]

Really.  You are joking, right.  Get paid generously?  The average enlisted salary is around $25,000.  I think most Americans would consider this less than generous.  As a matter of fact, it would entitle the person to a receive a welfare subsidy in many states.

Tell that to the people struggling to find any employment and who have to balance multiple minimum wage jobs with absolutely no job security. It's all relative. Those in the military have excellent opportunity for advancement, which simply isn't the case for those working at KFC or McDonald's; they have access to job training and receive special tax breaks. More importantly, a lot of those joining the military are poorly educated and would have little success in the private job market.

 

I stand by my statement.

[bradsday]

Tell that to the people struggling to find any employment and who have to balance multiple minimum wage jobs with absolutely no job security. It's all relative. Those in the military have excellent opportunity for advancement, which simply isn't the case for those working at KFC or McDonald's; they have access to job training and receive special tax breaks. More importantly, a lot of those joining the military are poorly educated and would have little success in the private job market.

 

I stand by my statement.

 

You are simply ridiculous.  An overwhelming number of people who join the military have at least some college education - and all have a high school diploma.  Your claims are baseless.  Further, your comparison of the military to fast food workers is telling of our opinion of the military in general.  The professional fighting forces of America's military are highly educated, highly skilled, and highly motivated.  We serve out of a selfless sense of patriotism and commitment to the founding principles of our great nation.  This is done out of a dedication to something greater than ourselves - and something greater than financial reward.  I would not expect someone like you to understand.  Nonetheless, your claim that American military members enjoy a generous compensation for their contributions is ludicrous.  Last I checked - not a lot of fast food employees laying down their lives for Ronald McDonald.

 

And frankly, I don't give a damn what you stand by.

[bradsday]

Don't agree.

 

Okay.  You are entitled to your opinion.  But how about simple respect for the elderly?  Weren't you taught to respect your elders as a child?  This is a couple in their 80s - don't they deserve some respect for that - if nothing else?  What if it were your grandparents - would you feel different then?  Where is our society heading if we cannot adhere to the most basic of principles?  If we don't respect anything - how can we ourselves ever expect to be respected?

[riahc3]

Because their name identifies them? Who they are is relevant, their occupation or former occupation is hardly of any importance.

It was a joke...

 

 

Yea the cleaners should really hang around your desk and wait for you to go to the toilet before they clean your desk, same for everyone else.. They don't need to go home or clean other places I'm sure they can just hang around all day just waiting...

 

/s.

Or, you know, let me work because I am busy and not clean my desk...

[FloatingFatMan]

Okay.  You are entitled to your opinion.  But how about simple respect for the elderly?  Weren't you taught to respect your elders as a child?  This is a couple in their 80s - don't they deserve some respect for that - if nothing else?  What if it were your grandparents - would you feel different then?  Where is our society heading if we cannot adhere to the most basic of principles?  If we don't respect anything - how can we ourselves ever expect to be respected?

 

Unfortunately, western society seems to have little to no respect for the elderly. :(

[bradsday]

Sue? You're joking right?  It's a private establishment. The owner/manager can ask a customer to leave for almost any reason they feel like, as long as it's not a protected class.

 

Asking someone to leave because they're too slow isn't a protected class; doing so just because they're old, is.  Good luck proving it though.

 

Welcome to America.  McDonald Inc. will not allow this to go very far in court - they will settle in a minute.  With a solid non-disclosure agreement in place. The amount they pay out to this old couple is nothing compared to the lost revenue from abusing an elderly World War II veteran.

[Dick Montage]

The couple should sue, it's a disgace.

 

Sue on what legal grounds?

 

Okay.  You are entitled to your opinion.  But how about simple respect for the elderly?  Weren't you taught to respect your elders as a child?  This is a couple in their 80s - don't they deserve some respect for that - if nothing else?  What if it were your grandparents - would you feel different then?  Where is our society heading if we cannot adhere to the most basic of principles?  If we don't respect anything - how can we ourselves ever expect to be respected?

 

I was taught to respect PEOPLE, elderly, veterans or otherwise.  But this isn't about that - this is about some arbitrary respect for one person doing their job against another?  The guy down the market who sells me my goat, why don't I respect equally him for doing exactly the thing he signed up to do?  Something of a basic principle.

 

"What if it were your grandparents?"  I don't enter into such nonsense.  You are attempting to be emotive, just as the article was.  It wasn't my grandparents and that is where this line of query ends.

 

Was it ridiculous to move ANYONE on after 30 minutes?  Sure.  Should veterans be exempt from society norms or shown any more respect?  Nope.

[Memphis]

You are simply ridiculous.  An overwhelming number of people who join the military have at least some college education - and all have a high school diploma.  Your claims are baseless.  Further, your comparison of the military to fast food workers is telling of our opinion of the military in general.  The professional fighting forces of America's military are highly educated, highly skilled, and highly motivated.  We serve out of a selfless sense of patriotism and commitment to the founding principles of our great nation.  This is done out of a dedication to something greater than ourselves - and something greater than financial reward.  I would not expect someone like you to understand.  Nonetheless, your claim that American military members enjoy a generous compensation for their contributions is ludicrous.  Last I checked - not a lot of fast food employees laying down their lives for Ronald McDonald.

 

And frankly, I don't give a damn what you stand by.

 

I hate this kind of false patriotism. A vet is no better than me for simply being a vet.

[leesmithg]

I don't see how the average could be that low. Simplyhired puts that number at $43k. In 2007, the average salary for an enlisted member who was been in service for less than four months was 30k. I separated in 2006 after four years as an E-4, and I was making a few K above that. Sorry, it just irks me when people try to low ball the pay of service members.

 

 

Sue? Really? The best course of action in this case is to vote with your wallet. Whenever I receive bad service from a place, I don't return. Sometimes I file a complaint to the management, and they offer freebees to get me to come back, but I politely decline those. It's a simple as that. There's no need to get lawyers and the press involved.

I thought that is what you do when in the U.S.A.

 

The man was not a veteran of world war 2.

 

2014 - 1941 (when u.s.a. joined) 73 years ago. He is 87, so 87 - 73 is 14 and he would not had been enlisted at 14.

 

Even if he joined at 16 in 1943 hardly makes him a veteran, a veteran would be from 1939 maybe if U.S.A. 1941.

[bradsday]

More importantly, a lot of those joining the military are poorly educated and would have little success in the private job market.

 

Let me enlighten you - so next time you won't sound so uneducated yourself.

 

 

United States Air Force Demographics (Enlisted Education)

 

Enlisted Academic Education

• 64.3% completed some college
• 22.2% have associate's degrees
• 7.2% have bachelor's degrees
• 1.3% have master's degree
• 0.013% have professional degrees

Airman Tier

• 81.70% have some college
• 4.328% have associate's degrees
• 3.008% have bachelor's degrees
• 0.060% have master's degree
• 0.002% have professional degrees

NCO Tier

• 60.31% completed some college
• 32.165% have associate's degrees
• 6.618% have bachelor's degrees
• 0.821% have master's degree
• 0.008% have professional degrees

Senior NCO Tier

• 16.27% completed some college
• 52.524% have associate's degrees
• 23.811% have bachelor's degrees
• 7.325% have master's degree
• 0.065% have professional degrees

 

Source:  United States Air Force Personnel Center (http://www.afpc.af.mil/library/airforcepersonneldemographics.asp)

[rfirth]

That argument certainly carried weight for those who served in WWII and were drafted?often against their will?but since then we've seen countless unnecessary wars that don't have any bearing on domestic security - Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Nowadays people choose to join the military and get paid generously for doing so. Of course they deserve respect but it has absolutely ZERO bearing on a story like this.

 

Well, he did serve in WWII, so your opinion of veterans of the Korean, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq wars have no bearing on a story like this.

 

But back on topic, I have seen the signs for maximum 30 minute stay in fast food restaurants, but it's normally only enforced if they are busy. It's way more than enough time to eat.

[bradsday]

I don't see how the average could be that low. Simplyhired puts that number at $43k. In 2007, the average salary for an enlisted member who was been in service for less than four months was 30k. I separated in 2006 after four years as an E-4, and I was making a few K above that. Sorry, it just irks me when people try to low ball the pay of service members.

 

Following is the current enlisted pay chart.  At four years as an E-4 (in 2014), your annual base salary before taxes is $27,936.  After federal and state taxes, the actual "take home" pay would be around $23,000.  This scale is misleading for calculating averages because enlisted ranks cannot serve over 30 years.  Also, you have to take into consideration that the greatest numbers are junior personnel, E-1 though E-4, comprising over 60% of the services.  The senior ranks, E-7 through E-9, are controlled by Congress with a set total force end strength of 3%, 2%, and 1% respectively.

 

  Cumulative Years of Service

Source:  Military Pay Table (http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp)

[Praetor]

I eat in 3 to 8 mins. 30 mins is to long of a time to eat.

 

sorry, you don't eat; you swallow. :laugh:

 

[bradsday]

As a junior officer I worked under senior non-officer ranks who hated officers in general.

 

I am somehow still doubting you ever served in the military.  For the life of me - I cannot conceive of an officer referring to the senior enlisted corps as "non-officers."  For a little clarification - noncommissioned officers (NCO) are still officers.  That is, they can issue binding legal orders in the same fashion as a commissioned officer.  Should a subordinate not carry out this legal order - they can be tried by court martial under the UCMJ.

 

If you did indeed serve - and considered or referred to enlisted personnel as "non-officers," then maybe their hatred wasn't for officers in general - rather it was likely a little more specific.  It was probably a good thing you got out when you did.

[GotBored]

I am somehow still doubting you ever served in the military.  For the life of me - I cannot conceive of an officer referring to the senior enlisted corps as "non-officers."  For a little clarification - noncommissioned officers (NCO) are still officers.  That is, they can issue binding legal orders in the same fashion as a commissioned officer.  Should a subordinate not carry out this legal order - they can be tried by court martial under the UCMJ.

 

If you did indeed serve - and considered or referred to enlisted personnel as "non-officers," then maybe their hatred wasn't for officers in general - rather it was likely a little more specific.  It was probably a good thing you got out when you did.

 

Senior non-commissioned ranks may have an officer title at the end of their rank but they aren't in the officer group. A junior commissioned officer still outranks them and that's from day one doesn't matter if the senior non-commissioned rank had been in for 30 years.. I think its a jealously thing and compared to how they acted towards other junior officers I actually got off pretty easy. And yes I know its a good thing I got out when I did, I knew I could cope in the real world and am way better off with better pay and benefits, I now feel like I'm actually contributing to society, it also feels good to get pay raises based on performance rather than just on how much time you've served .

[bradsday]

Senior non-commissioned ranks may have an officer title at the end of their rank but they aren't in the officer group........I think its a jealously thing and compared to how they acted towards other junior officers I actually got off pretty easy.

 

Your statement is true enough - a commissioned officer will always outrank a Noncomissioned Officer (NCO).  However, that is not to say an NCO is not also due a level of respect, especially a Senior NCO (SNCO).  It has nothing to do with jealousy - it is about creating an atmosphere of mutual respect.  This is a foremost responsibility of commissioned and noncommissioned officers alike.  It is a cornerstone of military service that is sadly lost on some.  I am glad it worked out for you in the long run.

[theyarecomingforyou]

The discussion is getting seriously off topic. This is about a couple who were asked to leave and refused to do so, instead choosing to air their grievances in the media. That is not normal behaviour. Certainly I can understand putting in a complaint to the store or even to corporate but to play up the military angle in the media is extremely manipulative and I really don't have any sympathy for the couple.

[bradsday]

The discussion is getting seriously off topic. This is about a couple who were asked to leave and refused to do so, instead choosing to air their grievances in the media. That is not normal behaviour. Certainly I can understand putting in a complaint to the store or even to corporate but to play up the military angle in the media is extremely manipulative and I really don't have any sympathy for the couple.

 

They did not refuse to leave - they did so quietly.  Afterwards, they did air their grievance to the local media.  I believe the fact that he is a World War II veteran was provided to give his age vice being a plea for special treatment.  The restaurant has since made reparations.  If you want to leave it there - I am fine with that.  My objection was with your assertion that American military members are uneducated and generously compensated.  But you are right - this has gotten way off topic.

[FloatingFatMan]

 I believe the fact that he is a World War II veteran was provided to give his age vice being a plea for special treatment.  

 

Come now, you know what the US media is like.  Their mentioning his WW2 vet status was nothing but blatant emotive hyperbole and has no bearing on the actual story itself.  Seriously, you really think McD's even knew he was a WW2 vet?

[theyarecomingforyou]

They did not refuse to leave - they did so quietly.

That's literally the opposite of what the article said:

At first the veteran Carl Becker and his wife Barbara refused to leave.'

 

I believe the fact that he is a World War II veteran was provided to give his age vice being a plea for special treatment.

No, the man mentioned it in order to get special treatment knowing that it would be more likely to be published. It was a calculated and manipulative move, one played up by the media. He clearly thinks that being a WWII veteran entitles him to special treatment, otherwise he wouldn't have been so quick to mention his military background. You wouldn't hear a veterinarian or an accountant mentioning their career when being interviewed for a matter like this. Serving his country doesn't entitle him to stay at a restaurant after being asked to leave.

[bradsday]

........

 

Pure speculation.  You have no idea what this man's motivations were for his mentioning he was a World War II veteran.  I contest that because his grievance was written, it was merely to illustrate his age.  Claiming to be a veterinarian or an accountant would not be an indicator of someone's age in the same way as declaring to be a World War II veteran.  All the same, I would equally argue that being one of the few surviving members of the "Greatest Generation" should entitle you to a few extra minutes at this "iconic" American restaurant.  This man conceivably fought for the freedom of America and the liberation of Europe - so yeah, give him a few extra minutes to enjoy his lunch.  I think he has earned that damned much.

[bradsday]

Come now, you know what the US media is like.  Their mentioning his WW2 vet status was nothing but blatant emotive hyperbole and has no bearing on the actual story itself.  Seriously, you really think McD's even knew he was a WW2 vet?

 

No.  Of course not.  This was some idiot teenager sweeping the floor - who got his equally moronic manager to support him.  My guess is since McDonald's has apologized and offered them one "scrunch" a week for life - neither of these smacktards is still employed there.  World War II veteran or not - you simply don't treat people like this - and especially not the elderly.  For whatever reason,  the concept of respect for authority, veterans, teachers, policemen, firemen, or even the elderly has all but disappeared from Western society.  It is a damned shame if you ask me - further, how can anyone ever expect to receive respect from others when they themselves are incapable of demonstrating even basic respect for anyone else.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Pure speculation.  You have no idea what this man's motivations were for his mentioning he was a World War II veteran.  I contest that because his grievance was written, it was merely to illustrate his age.

Age has nothing to do with military service. As I said, this strikes me as a calculated and manipulative move.

 

All the same, I would equally argue that being one of the few surviving members of the "Greatest Generation" should entitle you to a few extra minutes at this "iconic" American restaurant.  This man conceivably fought for the freedom of America and the liberation of Europe - so yeah, give him a few extra minutes to enjoy his lunch.  I think he has earned that damned much.

Disagree.

[compl3x]

That's literally the opposite of what the article said:

 

 

 

LOL.

 

So, are they going to sue or what?

[bradsday]

LOL.

 

So, are they going to sue or what?

 

Nah.  McDonald's apologized and offered them one free "scrunch" per week for life.  Given the potential for a real public relations nightmare - would say McDonald's got off pretty light.  No restaurant wants to be billed as being insensitive to the elderly - and especially not to World War II veterans.  I would image the two smarktards responsible for this mess are no longer employed at McDonald's.