DocM Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Not to mention being a prisoners dream... http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/24/business/selling-a-poison-by-the-barrel-liquid-nicotine-for-e-cigarettes.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=2&referrer= Selling a Poison by the Barrel: Liquid Nicotine for E-Cigarettes A dangerous new form of a powerful stimulant is hitting markets nationwide, for sale by the vial, the gallon and even the barrel. The drug is nicotine, in its potent, liquid form ? extracted from tobacco and tinctured with a cocktail of flavorings, colorings and assorted chemicals to feed the fast-growing electronic cigarette industry. These ?e-liquids,? the key ingredients in e-cigarettes, are powerful neurotoxins. Tiny amounts, whether ingested or absorbed through the skin, can cause vomiting and seizures and even be lethal. A teaspoon of even highly diluted e-liquid can kill a small child. But, like e-cigarettes, e-liquids are not regulated by federal authorities. They are mixed on factory floors and in the back rooms of shops, and sold legally in stores and online in small bottles that are kept casually around the house for regular refilling of e-cigarettes. Evidence of the potential dangers is already emerging. Toxicologists warn that e-liquids pose a significant risk to public health, particularly to children, who may be drawn to their bright colors and fragrant flavorings like cherry, chocolate and bubble gum. ?It?s not a matter of if a child will be seriously poisoned or killed,? said Lee Cantrell, director of the San Diego division of the California Poison Control System and a professor of pharmacy at the University of California, San Francisco. ?It?s a matter of when.? Reports of accidental poisonings, notably among children, are soaring. Since 2011, there appears to have been one death in the United States, a suicide by an adult who injected nicotine. But less serious cases have led to a surge in calls to poison control centers. Nationwide, the number of cases linked to e-liquids jumped to 1,351 in 2013, a 300 percent increase from 2012, and the number is on pace to double this year, according to information from the National Poison Data System. Of the cases in 2013, 365 were referred to hospitals, triple the previous year?s number. Examples come from across the country. Last month, a 2-year-old girl in Oklahoma City drank a small bottle of a parent?s nicotine liquid, started vomiting and was rushed to an emergency room. > Unlike nicotine gums and patches, e-cigarettes and their ingredients are not regulated. The Food and Drug Administration has said it plans to regulate e-cigarettes but has not disclosed how it will approach the issue. Many e-cigarette companies hope there will be limited regulation. ?It?s the wild, wild west right now,? said Chip Paul, chief executive officer of Palm Beach Vapors, a company based in Tulsa, Okla., that operates 13 e-cigarette franchises nationwide and plans to open 50 more this year. ?Everybody fears F.D.A. regulation, but honestly, we kind of welcome some kind of rules and regulations around this liquid.? > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Montage Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Except what this doesn't mention is that when you buy the flavours, you can specify the nicotine level. Me and all my mates smoke the 0% level, as it's more the hand-craving we have substituted. They are mixed on factory floors and in the back rooms of shops, and sold legally in stores and online in small bottles that are kept casually around the house for regular refilling of e-cigarettes. What fine, upstanding journalism. Sorry, but this is absolute bollocks. Kids being poisoned? Bleach is poisonous and also has the child-proof caps as do the vapours. It's bad for you to inhale nicotine? Wow, who knew. Better go back to cigarettes! GotBored and Lord Method Man 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 what is a e-cigarette? i though those fake cigars just made vapor or something (or it didn't had any nicotine). Also about those numbers: just how many children die everyday from smoking cigars? oh... Except what this doesn't mention is that when you buy the flavours, you can specify the nicotine level. Me and all my mates smoke the 0% level, as it's more the hand-craving we have substituted. offtopic: your avatar is nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Montage Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 what is a e-cigarette? i though those fake cigars just made vapor or something (or it didn't had any nicotine). Also about those numbers: just how many children die everyday from smoking cigars? oh... http://www.vipelectroniccigarette.co.uk/e-cigarette-tank-kits-c-33.html That is what I smoke. It is a battery that warms a liquid. You inhale and exhale a vapour. You can get different strengths of tar and nicotine. What you exhale is no worse than the steam off a coffee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 And a potential chemical weapon.... http://m.eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/6/681.full > In early 2011, Anders Behring Breivik, a Norwegian right-wing extremist, began to research a means of creating poisoned bullets. In his ?manifesto?3subsequently published online, he noted that ?A relatively simple process will convert hollow point and even standard ammunition ? lead or other alloy bullets into hollow bullets. These hollow projectiles are then injected with a biological or chemical toxin.???[converting] your projectile weapon into a chemical or biological weapon?. His criteria for selecting the poison were ease of obtaining it and lethality (measured as the LD50, or dose required to kill 50% of 75?kg adults). After careful consideration of alternatives, including heroin, various insecticides and cyanide, he concludes that the ideal is nicotine. He notes that while pure nicotine has a slightly higher LD50 than cyanide, unlike almost all of the other substances he considered, it can be purchased without restriction. Indeed, he helpfully supplies a draft letter than can be used to order it from chemical suppliers, ostensibly for use in electronic cigarettes. He even provides addresses of such suppliers, indicating that he ?received the 50?ml of 99% pure liquid nicotine shipment from China?, and was ?relieved to see that there were no complications whatsoever?. > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timster Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'll stick to pot. firey, Ph1b3r0pt1c and Order_66 3 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmeunit Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Except what this doesn't mention is that when you buy the flavours, you can specify the nicotine level. Me and all my mates smoke the 0% level, as it's more the hand-craving we have substituted. What fine, upstanding journalism. Sorry, but this is absolute bollocks. Kids being poisoned? Bleach is poisonous and also has the child-proof caps as do the vapours. It's bad for you to inhale nicotine? Wow, who knew. Better go back to cigarettes! Not sure how these are packaged, but they would be concentrated I'm sure, and highs of nicotine is dangerous. As you said, so are other things, but people might not think about locking these up while they do chemicals. Of course, some people don't know what to do either way. Again, I know nothing about these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 And a potential chemical weapon.... http://m.eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/6/681.full point is: there's no regulation right now, everyone can buy liquid nicotine and everybody can make and sell whatever the crap they want. There should be some regulation but more importantly there should be made extensive studies about the effects of this e-cigars. http://www.vipelectroniccigarette.co.uk/e-cigarette-tank-kits-c-33.html That is what I smoke. It is a battery that warms a liquid. You inhale and exhale a vapour. You can get different strengths of tar and nicotine. What you exhale is no worse than the steam off a coffee. thanks, i've seen some of this and even my father-in-law smokes one of these e-cigars (he quited smoking cigars to go into e-cigars); there's not a single regulation in my country about these stuff, so while it can be beneficial for people to stop smoking, it can be bad if they are smoking some worse crap then cigars. also: the cigars companies must not be happy with these e-cigars, are they? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Montage Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 also: the cigars companies must not be happy with these e-cigars, are they? Who do you think is behind all the stupid negative press? One article yesterday harped on about the solder used. Yes, valid point, except this was realised back in 2011 and they moved to different techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Who do you think is behind all the stupid negative press? One article yesterday harped on about the solder used. Yes, valid point, except this was realised back in 2011 and they moved to different techniques. cigars companies...pot, met kettle. also Nik L. check your avatar, don't make me say that for a third time! :laugh: Dick Montage 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Montage Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Sorry, am on it. Praetor 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 As was stated in my 2nd post, the LD50 (dose that kills 50% of recipients) of nicotine is only slightly higher than cyanide. This stuff is sold in small bottles similar in size (1oz or so), and sometimes color, to those used for liquid candy concoctions, and are similarly flavored. Kids seeing "Cherry" etc. or pictures of fruit on the bottle may make a huge error. Candy Nicotine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Nicotine see, according to the picture one can use it on fruits, salads and such! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member Posted March 25, 2014 Member Share Posted March 25, 2014 point is: there's no regulation right now, everyone can buy liquid nicotine and everybody can make and sell whatever the crap they want. There should be some regulation but more importantly there should be made extensive studies about the effects of this e-cigars. I can't imagine without some sort of carcinogenic propellant or mixed in chemicals how they'd be worse than cigarettes since (as far as I'm aware) Nicotine itself isn't currently classified as a known carcinogen (in humans up to this point). But, on the other hand, just about everything else in the smoke you are inhaling with tobacco are well known carcinogens (and coat the lungs with tar) though. Of course, Nicotine might well enable spreading of cancer or other issues (make them even worse), so there should be long term studies and there should be better regulation. The latter should at the very least be inline with the regulation on cleaners and such given the potential for accidents. That being said, I think half of the news and regulation talk we are seeing is enabled by Tobacco industry lobbyists trying to use scare-tactics on the public. I mean, realistically the above article is rather sensationalized for effect :laugh: Dick Montage and Praetor 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I can't imagine without some sort of carcinogenic propellant or mixed in chemicals how they'd be worse than cigarettes since (as far as I'm aware) Nicotine itself isn't currently classified as a known carcinogen (in humans up to this point). But, on the other hand, just about everything else in the smoke you are inhaling with tobacco are well known carcinogens (and coat the lungs with tar) though. Of course, Nicotine might well enable spreading of cancer or other issues (make them even worse), so there should be long term studies and there should be better regulation. The latter should at the very least be inline with the regulation on cleaners and such given the potential for accidents. That being said, I think half of the news and regulation talk we are seeing is enabled by Tobacco industry lobbyists trying to use scare-tactics on the public. I mean, realistically the above article is rather sensationalized for effect :laugh: make no mistake: if the e-cigars make a boom in the market, the cigars companies are going after them like a hungry wolf after a lamb. Having said that i advocate that it's still better not to smoke anything (money wise, health wise, sex wise, etc.), but if one must smoke then at least be a e-cigar; cigarettes are truly evil for you body and wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Montage Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 This stuff is sold in small bottles similar in size (1oz or so), and sometimes color, to those used for liquid candy concoctions, and are similarly flavored. Kids seeing "Cherry" etc. or pictures of fruit on the bottle may make a huge error. Not over here it's not. And if that's what someone buys, then they are buying crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member Posted March 25, 2014 Member Share Posted March 25, 2014 make no mistake: if the e-cigars make a boom in the market, the cigars companies are going after them like a hungry wolf after a lamb. Having said that i advocate that it's still better not to smoke anything (money wise, health wise, sex wise, etc.), but if one must smoke then at least be a e-cigar; cigarettes are truly evil for you body and wallet. And everyone else bodies in the general vicinity! My older brother smokes e-cigars, and at the very least the immediate effects of that aren't offensive to my lungs and nose :p Praetor 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COKid Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 http://www.vipelectroniccigarette.co.uk/e-cigarette-tank-kits-c-33.html That is what I smoke. It is a battery that warms a liquid. You inhale and exhale a vapour. You can get different strengths of tar and nicotine. What you exhale is no worse than the steam off a coffee. Tar sounds so yummy. I'll have to ask for a sample when I see them repairing potholes in our area. Praetor 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Tar sounds so yummy. I'll have to ask for a sample when I see them repairing potholes in our area. and remember to use the command gunzip nicotine.tar.gz before smoking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 For the record, one of the major carcinogens in tobacco is the radioisotope polonium 210. Polonium 210 is an alpha emitter, energetic helium nuclei, which is highly ionizing and mutagenic. It gets trapped in the branches of lung tubules where it irradiates the tissues 24/7. Its decay product is lead 206. It comes in from mined mineral phosphates used as fertilizer and is a decay product of members of the radium series. Put tobacco fertilized this way (most, especially in and around the middle east) on top of an x-ray film in a light tight envelope for a while and it'll take a picture of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Also, from the olden days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 ^ Oh my.. They were really stupid in the old days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Montage Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Tar sounds so yummy. I'll have to ask for a sample when I see them repairing potholes in our area. Hence I have the 0% vapours. Its basically just the flavour (coffee in mine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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