Xbox One cross-play with PC not allowed, says War Thunder dev

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Xbox One cross-play with PC not allowed, says War Thunder dev

Thursday, 27th March 2014 23:56 GMT By Brenna Hillier

Microsoft won?t allow cross-play with PC on Xbox One, which is why War Thunder won?t be making its way to the console, developer Gaijin Entertainment has said.

 

?Microsoft is not allowing cross-play completely; which means [War Thunder] cannot be on Xbox One,? Gaijin CEO Anton Yudintsev told Gamespot.

Yudintsev said Microsoft refuses to allow cross-play so that it can certify game servers to ensure a ?good experience? for all players, but that cross-play is essential for games like War Thunder because the install base of PS4 and Xbox One alone can?t supply enough players.

Microsoft has dropped hints that PC and Xbox One cross-play may be on the cards in the future, but has not committed.

The executive also had harsh words for Microsoft, noting that Sony is ?much more open? to both indie developers and free-to-play games. He said Microsoft?s approval of games comes down to the whims of just one account manager, and that the platform won?t take risks on unknown quantities, banking on ready-made successes like Minecraft instead.

All that said,Yudintsev says things are getting better in Redmond.

?[Microsoft] has to change and they will change. The key is that they understand the necessity of change, so they will,? he said.

?We?ll see. I hope we will be [on Xbox One] some day as well. I have nothing against the platform itself especially because I?m not one of those guys who worries about which is better [Xbox One or PS4]. I don?t care. It?s just the hardware. At the end of the day it?s only about the quality of the game and the gameplay experience.?

War Thunder is currently available on PS4 in Europe, but not other territories, and will support cross-play with PC sometime in April.

http://www.vg247.com/2014/03/27/xbox-one-cross-play-with-pc-not-allowed-says-war-thunder-dev/

[Skiver Veteran]

I seriously doubt MS will ever change the way they do things with regards to this but I would LOVE to see it. Not just for cross platform but I'm a big fan of this game on the PC also.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

i've never understood why cross-play between consoles & PC's isn't allowed

 

i could somewhat understand it w/ prev gens that it may have been a limitation do to difference in architectures but they're all on x86 this generation now

[George P Global Moderator]

i've never understood why cross-play between consoles & PC's isn't allowed

 

i could somewhat understand it w/ prev gens that it may have been a limitation do to difference in architectures but their all on x86 this generation now

 

It's more about the difference in level of control, depending on the game, MS tried this in the past once and it didn't work out well, the PC players had the clear advantage.   If it's a shooter the mouse+kb is better,  if it's a racer or flight sim then if the PC guys have race wheels and flight sticks those give an advantage.

 

There's no backend technical limitations here, they just, as they put it, want to give the same experience to everyone.  Who knows what the future will bring, maybe they'll change it, maybe not.  I don't quite get why it matters really specially if your game sells well on the Xbox and or the PS4 why do you need cross-play with the PC exactly?

[Brandon H Supervisor]

It's more about the difference in level of control, depending on the game, MS tried this in the past once and it didn't work out well, the PC players had the clear advantage.   If it's a shooter the mouse+kb is better,  if it's a racer or flight sim then if the PC guys have race wheels and flight sticks those give an advantage.

i don't see that as so much of an issue for a few reasons.

 

1. you can use controllers on PC and with an extra item such as XIM you can use kb+mouse on consoles. plus at least on the ps3/ps4 game devs are given the option of natively supporting kb+mouse

2. for shooters there are players that are just as accurate if not more accurate w/ controllers than those on kb+mouse

3. for racers there are race wheels and flight sticks you can get for consoles too

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

It's more about the difference in level of control, depending on the game, MS tried this in the past once and it didn't work out well, the PC players had the clear advantage.   If it's a shooter the mouse+kb is better,  if it's a racer or flight sim then if the PC guys have race wheels and flight sticks those give an advantage.

 

There's no backend technical limitations here, they just, as they put it, want to give the same experience to everyone.  Who knows what the future will bring, maybe they'll change it, maybe not.  I don't quite get why it matters really specially if your game sells well on the Xbox and or the PS4 why do you need cross-play with the PC exactly?

 

It's up to the dev to decide that though, not a system wide restriction IMO. IIRC War Thunder supports KB/M on the PS4, and in the PC realm sometimes people prefer gamepads instead anyway. While there may be inherent advantages to one control scheme over another it doesn't mean people can't adapt and learn to overcome shortcomings.

 

To add to the counter-argument as well I challenge people to find what evidence there is to suggest the PS4 copy isn't working? If we're going to speak in hypotheticals about why it's best not to mix platforms why don't we shelf the ifs and maybes and look at the facts of how it's working out on a console that IS mixing platforms?

 

FF14 is another title with PC and console servers being mixed, issues? Not when I played it.

[macrosslover]

I can't think of a game that would be good for cross-platform play.  If it's a fps or RTS, then even the average PC player would murder a console player.  The control advantage is too great.  I would say something like a Mario game, but honestly those have never done well on a PC and the jumping mechanic really is better suited to controllers than a mouse/kb.

 

Their argument that the install base isn't large enough is a weak argument imo.  It may not be the biggest right now for each platform but given time, the console player base of a particular game is usually always much bigger than the PC base.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

I can't think of a game that would be good for cross-platform play.  If it's a fps or RTS, then even the average PC player would murder a console player.  The control advantage is too great.  I would say something like a Mario game, but honestly those have never done well on a PC and the jumping mechanic really is better suited to controllers than a mouse/kb.

i refer you to my points above

[George P Global Moderator]

It's up to the dev to decide that though, not a system wide restriction IMO. IIRC War Thunder supports KB/M on the PS4, and in the PC realm sometimes people prefer gamepads instead anyway. While there may be inherent advantages to one control scheme over another it doesn't mean people can't adapt and learn to overcome shortcomings.

 

To add to the counter-argument as well I challenge people to find what evidence there is to suggest the PS4 copy isn't working? If we're going to speak in hypotheticals about why it's best not to mix platforms why don't we shelf the ifs and maybes and look at the facts of how it's working out on a console that IS mixing platforms?

 

FF14 is another title with PC and console servers being mixed, issues? Not when I played it.

 

FF14 is hardly something competitive, last I saw it's battle system wasn't real time either, unless that changed when they totally redid the game from the original mess it was. 

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

FF14 is hardly something competitive, last I saw it's battle system wasn't real time either, unless that changed when they totally redid the game from the original mess it was. 

 

It's co-op competitive, if you know MMO's well one mistake on an input cycle or a slow reaction can lead to a wipe.

 

But again who are we to tell people how they can and can't play something that is competitive? The PC allows freedom of kb/m, gamepads, weird kb/m gamepad combos, and then an absolute slew of these components with different laser speeds/buttons/macro keys/etc. I'm not denying inherently as I wrote above kb/m can allow an advantage over a gamepad, but that's up to the developers to compensate for in their games, most likely with a very efficient and user editable controller scheme.

 

Why not even on the top end an option to restrict matchmaking to a specific platform? Dark Souls 2 for example has an option to restrict matchmaking to your continent, or global, and it's just a toggle in the options. Again, it's all about choice, something MS keep getting harrassed for.

[+Asmodai MVC]

i've never understood why cross-play between consoles & PC's isn't allowed

Strictly speaking it has been "allowed" in the past. As George P pointed out though the differences in input and capabilities between the platforms has made this undesirable in the past. Cross-play support was touted as a feature of "Games for Windows Live" when it was launched and the Shadowrun game allowed PC and 360 to play together. That support was later ended though. Because of MS's "walled garden" approach the servers have to be on Microsoft's Windows Live network. Xbox consoles obviously have access to that network and PC games that were released as part of "Games for Windows Live" did too. Titanfall is an example of a post "Games for Windows Live" game that is on both PC and Xbox that could allow for cross-play. It's servers are all hosted on Microsofts Xbox Live Compute cloud servers so it's just a policy decision that keeps it from happening. That may change in the future.

This is an Xbox specific issue though not a general console one. Nothing stops a developer from making a game and hosting their own servers then giving access to PS3, PS4, Linux, Mac, and Windows clients. In fact you can have players hosting servers for PS3 games (I believe Unreal Tournament III for the PS3 eventually supported this) but it's rarely done. The reason it hasn't happened is again what George P pointed to in that controls are just too different. Another factor is if you release a PC client you can update it whenever you want for free. On a console the updates have to be approved by the platform holder and that takes time (and possibly costs money). If PC and console versions are played on the same servers that means the clients have to be kept in sync and developers will have to hold up their PC updates until the corresponding console updates get approved (and paid for?) which is an undesirable situation to many.

[PGHammer]

It's more about the difference in level of control, depending on the game, MS tried this in the past once and it didn't work out well, the PC players had the clear advantage.   If it's a shooter the mouse+kb is better,  if it's a racer or flight sim then if the PC guys have race wheels and flight sticks those give an advantage.

 

There's no backend technical limitations here, they just, as they put it, want to give the same experience to everyone.  Who knows what the future will bring, maybe they'll change it, maybe not.  I don't quite get why it matters really specially if your game sells well on the Xbox and or the PS4 why do you need cross-play with the PC exactly?

The same can be said about PC/PSx cross-play (which Sony does not allow, even in their own F2P games on both platforms, such as DC Universe Online).

[123456789A]

The PC allows freedom of kb/m, gamepads, weird kb/m gamepad combos, and then an absolute slew of these components with different laser speeds/buttons/macro keys/etc.

 

Wait, how are you adjusting your laser speed?

[psionicinversion]

i've never understood why cross-play between consoles & PC's isn't allowed

 

i could somewhat understand it w/ prev gens that it may have been a limitation do to difference in architectures but they're all on x86 this generation now

 

Its because for games like FPS's PC would absolutely dominate the majority of consolers cus mouse is king, nothing except the eye tracking tech that i saw demonstrating on the ps4 would be faster. You see something, hands moves to it kind of like a reaction to block or catch something as such so uses your natural reflexes, whereas console and just the thumb isnt a reflex its a controlled movement so not as fast, give the thumb stick 2000 dpi and youll be all over the place cus its not designed for that your hand however is.

 

But for war thunder though flying a plane controlling a tank etc a gamepad is perfect in fact much better than KB/mouse combo so dunno what there problem is unless its the patch problem. CR from Star Ctizen told sony it needs free reign on patch delivery and if MS not willing to give that up then its a pretty big obstacle especially is clients need the same client as server side

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Its because for games like FPS's PC would absolutely dominate the majority of consolers cus mouse is king

and once again i've seen people that are phenominal on shooters with controller and would kick any kb+mouse user's ass

 

plus as has been said (at least on the ps3/ps4. not sure with the xbox) developers have the option of supporting kb+mouse on consoles and for those that don't do it there's always 3rd party tools such as the XIM that allow you to use kb+mouse on games

[+Asmodai MVC]

The same can be said about PC/PSx cross-play (which Sony does not allow, even in their own F2P games on both platforms, such as DC Universe Online).

 

Let me clarify this for you.  Sony as the PSx platform holder DOES allow cross-play.  However most developers/publishers choose not to support it for a number of reasons that have already been stated.

Sony as a developer/publisher (1st party games) CHOOSES not to support it on games such as DC Universe.

[George P Global Moderator]

Let me clarify this for you.  Sony as the PSx platform holder DOES allow cross-play.  However most developers/publishers choose not to support it for a number of reasons that have already been stated.

Sony as a developer/publisher (1st party games) CHOOSES not to support it on games such as DC Universe.

 

So why not ask the developers why they don't do this more?  All I see is a post from one developer or two who bring this up, or one or two MMO makers who argue about XBL Gold and so on, though that's a different subject.

[+Asmodai MVC]

So why not ask the developers why they don't do this more?  All I see is a post from one developer or two who bring this up, or one or two MMO makers who argue about XBL Gold and so on, though that's a different subject.

 

Sorry, I'm not understanding what you are asking (or why it's a reply to most statement specifically)...

Why not ask developers why they don't allow cross-play more?  Aren't you one of the people already trying to explain that with the keyboard+mouse vs. controller examples?

I've actually read several articles in the past about this issue from different developers about different games. I don't think it's something developers/publishers prefer to talk about or bring up on their own ("This is what our game doesn't do!") but it has been asked several times before on different games by interviewers and such.  The main reasons I've seen as you pointed out are controls, also the issue with having to submit (and pay for) console patches, etc.

I'm all for asking more devs why they don't to it though.

 

Here's a quote from way back in 2007:

 

"Epic VP Mark Rein finally confirmed that the game will not feature cross-platform multiplayer--at least at launch. "The biggest challenge in doing cross platform play is syncronizing [sic] the builds such that the build on the PC is 100% compatible with the build on the PS3," said Rein. "Unfortunately (or fortunately) when you [develop] games on console you have a lengthy certification process to go through each time you release anything new." "We looked at how this would impact our ability to respond quickly to things happening at internet speed on the PC side of the equation and realized that this would not be in the best interests of our very loyal PC userbase," he went on, "because we would constantly be holding on to updates to wait until they passed cert on the console platform."

 

source: http://www.shacknews.com/article/49146/epic-confirms-no-unreal-tournament

 

There is no technical or policy limitation from Sony (as the platform holder) preventing game developers/publishers from doing this.  It's just a choice developers/publishers make on their own.  Microsoft on the other hand specifically disallows it (currently) though they have in the past allowed PC to Xbox via their "Games for Windows Live" program and they may again open up a similar capability in the future between Windows and Xbox systems.

[George P Global Moderator]

Sorry, I'm not understanding what you are asking (or why it's a reply to most statement specifically)...

Why not ask developers why they don't allow cross-play more?  Aren't you one of the people already trying to explain that with the keyboard+mouse vs. controller examples?

I've actually read several articles in the past about this issue from different developers about different games. I don't think it's something developers/publishers prefer to talk about or bring up on their own ("This is what our game doesn't do!") but it has been asked several times before on different games by interviewers and such.  The main reasons I've seen as you pointed out are controls, also the issue with having to submit (and pay for) console patches, etc.

I'm all for asking more devs why they don't to it though.

 

Here's a quote from way back in 2007:

 

"Epic VP Mark Rein finally confirmed that the game will not feature cross-platform multiplayer--at least at launch. "The biggest challenge in doing cross platform play is syncronizing [sic] the builds such that the build on the PC is 100% compatible with the build on the PS3," said Rein. "Unfortunately (or fortunately) when you [develop] games on console you have a lengthy certification process to go through each time you release anything new." "We looked at how this would impact our ability to respond quickly to things happening at internet speed on the PC side of the equation and realized that this would not be in the best interests of our very loyal PC userbase," he went on, "because we would constantly be holding on to updates to wait until they passed cert on the console platform."

 

source: http://www.shacknews.com/article/49146/epic-confirms-no-unreal-tournament

 

There is no technical or policy limitation from Sony (as the platform holder) preventing game developers/publishers from doing this.  It's just a choice developers/publishers make on their own.  Microsoft on the other hand specifically disallows it (currently) though they have in the past allowed PC to Xbox via their "Games for Windows Live" program and they may again open up a similar capability in the future between Windows and Xbox systems.

 

 

No, what I mean is, why put the issue on MS or the platform holder only and not bring it up as a developer issue?  I know the reasons, at least what I think they are as I posted yet some will say those aren't an issue and MS is just being stupid about it and Sony isn't while like you posted the majority of developers don't bother to support cross-play.

[dead.cell]

FF14 is hardly something competitive, last I saw it's battle system wasn't real time either, unless that changed when they totally redid the game from the original mess it was. 

 

So why not ask the developers why they don't do this more?  All I see is a post from one developer or two who bring this up, or one or two MMO makers who argue about XBL Gold and so on, though that's a different subject.

No offense, but your first statement here really takes away from your credibility here. How can I trust what you're looking into, if you can't even look into the game you're referring to? :ermm:

 

Anyway, it's an issue specific to the Xbox. They talk about hoping it may change down the road, but given Microsoft's approach to multiplayer, I don't see that happening to be honest.

 

Personally, I'd like to see it happen more often. FFXIV did a pretty good job of it, and it was pretty cool seeing PC and console gamers being able to play together for a change.

[n_K]

Microsoft will never allow multiplayer cross play because then they can't ban whomever they want and stick that god awful reputation system enforcement all over it, not to mention they wouldn't get their precious xbox live gold monies.

No big loss.

[George P Global Moderator]

No offense, but your first statement here really takes away from your credibility here. How can I trust what you're looking into, if you can't even look into the game you're referring to? :ermm:

 

Anyway, it's an issue specific to the Xbox. They talk about hoping it may change down the road, but given Microsoft's approach to multiplayer, I don't see that happening to be honest.

 

Personally, I'd like to see it happen more often. FFXIV did a pretty good job of it, and it was pretty cool seeing PC and console gamers being able to play together for a change.

 

Excuse me for not following MMOs, which I've said time and again I don't care about.  I remember how terrible it was in it's original incarnation and didn't follow it after that.  Besides, I wasn't the one who brought FF14 into this conversation.   While the limit is from MS developers aren't pressuring for it to change, you have one here, and one or two MMO developers who bring up Gold but that's it.  I'm not seeing a large majority pressuring for this or even using it, you have a few limited examples that do and that's it.  So I ask you, why not ask the developers why they don't care to use cross-play more or push for it?  

[+Asmodai MVC]

No, what I mean is, why put the issue on MS or the platform holder only and not bring it up as a developer issue?  I know the reasons, at least what I think they are as I posted yet some will say those aren't an issue and MS is just being stupid about it and Sony isn't while like you posted the majority of developers don't bother to support cross-play.

Sorry, I'm still not sure I'm understanding what you are asking.  I'll give it a shot though.

Why was this issue on MS or the platform holder only and not an issue with developers since they are choosing not to do cross-play even when they can? (My best guess at what you are asking, sorry if I've misunderstood again).

In the case of this particular thread it was started in response to a developer (War Thunder dev) who claims they DO want to do cross-play but MS is stopping them.  So in this particular case it is not the dev who is making the choice and it IS a platform restriction by MS that is standing in the way so the issue is clearly on MS.  There are tons of examples though on other platforms where devs/publishers could have done cross-play but didn't and in those cases sure it's the dev/publishers fault too but that has nothing to do with the War Thunder story this thread is about.  Ultimately I believe the point is that MS has more restrictive policies than Sony on their consoles and given that MS has changed policies in the past when there was dev outcry I imagine the War Thunder dev is just trying to stir up a hornets nest in the hopes that they can get a policy change.  Clearly 3rd party Devs/publisher would like the least restrictions on them as possible and if one competitor is offering more restrictions than the other they're going to play up that difference in order to try to get them to change.

[spenser.d]

I think it's just a cost-benefit thing. In the grand scheme of things I doubt that many people care one way or another about cross-platform play. On top of that, I have to imagine it's an immensely complex feat to pull off well in the first place that would require taking away significant resources from developing other things that more people do want. Then there is the parity in control - I certainly would not want to be playing Titanfall against PC players as I imagine I'd just be getting domed over and over. I also think that would be a turnoff for a lot of console gamers as there are a lot more casual gamers on consoles compared to PCs that would just stop playing if they were bunched together with the largely more hardcore PC gamer crowd.

So what's the benefit then? An even larger pool of players? Doesn't seem particularly necessary/worth it given the cost. Being able to play with friends with different hardware? Sure that'd be nice, but we've come this far and lived just fine.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice done right, I'm just pointing out the rationale for it not being a priority.

[McKay]

Shame, I really enjoyed shadowrun, even though it was an FPS, PC players were usually on par with the 360 players, probably due to the fact it wasn't the kind of game where single bullets dropped opponents like CountStrike etc, even the weaker elves took half a clip to drop etc. 

 

Because I was genuinely curious at the time I used to check peoples profiles who were top of the leaderboard after matches, 50/50 whether it was PC or not.