British man amputates own hand

[jakem1]

Don't be an idiot.

 

He can't help himself.

[blerk]

If the reason is good and informed consent is given many US surgeons will do elective amputations, and acceptanceis increasing as better prosthetics become available.

 

Really? Well that's... different to what I expected. It isn't really the norm elsewhere, as far as I've been told. I guess access to and experience with the newer generation of prosthetics is somewhat more advanced in the United States vs. the rest of the world. 

[Steven P. Administrators]

Gotta hand it to him. He really deserves a hand for taking things into his own hands like that.

On the other hand, it could have been handled better.

:P (y)

[blerk]

You sir, deserve a hand! Or maybe a slap... Not sure which. ;)

Well, the aforementioned slap can be delivered by hand (the only real way), so either way, he gets a hand :D

[HawkMan]

The vast majority, regardless of what you've heard.

Adequate results, or lack of them, was his problem.

 

see the difference is for you it's "the vast majority" for us it's "everyone". 

[HawkMan]

The bad news can't all be blamed on the messenger. The whole smoke & fire thing.

Then explain the lower cancer 5 year survival vs the US or even the rest of Europe? Those reports haven't changed much in over 20 years. There's a UK cancer outcomes conference in June, so we'll see what comes of that.

 

 

Lower reported cancer cases for people who can't be economically helped in the US, People dying of "other" causes while waiting for treatment, being reported as something else even though the "other" cause it because of the cancer. 

 

Can be any number of things, not necessarily what it looks like on the surface, since cancer is something the NHS and other similar european health systems handle very well and very seriously. over her if you have suspicion of cancer you're a priority patient to check if it's it, after the check up there's a maximum time for and answer and another consult and you're still a priority, after that, you get bumped to the head of the queue for surgery or other treatment. 

 

and EVERYONE gets to go to the best cancer hospitals in their country or another one closer IF THEY CHOSE, in fact you're allowed to chose to get your treatment in another country as well. so some people with special cases or who just want to have chosen to get treated and world renowned cancer institutions in other european countries or even America. 

[xrobwx71]

Hate to be Johnny Raincloud but then there is this. The removal of the limb may not remove the pain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_pain

[Dick Montage]

If the reason is good and informed consent is given many US surgeons will do elective amputations, and acceptanceis increasing as better prosthetics become available.

 

And there goes "Do no harm" out the window...

 

As for the NHS being in a failing state?  Utter utter nonsense.

 

It has had its funding cut drastically, to support the recent wars and so on - and so there is certainly a shortage of resource in certain areas.  However, much of the time the NHS is wheeled out and claimed to be failing - it's part of a bigger agenda.  Often the impetus is anti-immigration sentiment.

 

The NHS should be the shining beacon of the modern world.

[DocM]

Hate to be Johnny Raincloud but then there is this. The removal of the limb may not remove the pain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_pain

The definition of phantom limb is so broad it even covers those of us where it's advantageous. There are meds one can be given in the post-op period which reduce the likelihood or impact of phantom limb. And not all amputees experience it.

In my case, and I'm told many others, having my prosthesis on and standing/walking gives me a sensation of pressure at the ball of my missing foot. I find this an aid in mentally picturing where my prosthetic foot is and maintaining stability.

[Turk.]

Photo of his amputated hand suggests that he had had reflex sympathetic dystrophy (Sudeck's atrophy).  it is a.k.a. complex regional pain syndrome which is a crap, made up nomenclature. Hospital was responsible and now legally liable but the person of interest....

[Max Veteran]

Poor guy. I suffer with Crohns Disease and sometimes painkillers and medication simply don't work. The pain is so incredible at times that you lose all concentration to the point of where you can feel yourself blacking out. Someone could shout the winning lottery numbers at me and I wouldn't remember a single one. When pain is that bad, you go to extremes.

[HawkMan]

Photo of his amputated hand suggests that he had had reflex sympathetic dystrophy (Sudeck's atrophy).  it is a.k.a. complex regional pain syndrome which is a crap, made up nomenclature. Hospital was responsible and now legally liable but the person of interest....

 

what...

[xrobwx71]

The definition of phantom limb is so broad it even covers those of us where it's advantageous. There are meds one can be given in the post-op period which reduce the likelihood or impact of phantom limb. And not all amputees experience it.

In my case, and I'm told many others, having my prosthesis on and standing/walking gives me a sensation of pressure at the ball of my missing foot. I find this an aid in mentally picturing where my prosthetic foot is and maintaining stability.

Thanks for the clarification. I came across this thread and was doing  bit of reading on amputees and came across it. However, experience is always the best form of any information. Thanks again.

[Turk.]

Apparently, it was because of Sudeck's atrophy i.e. RSD.

[DocM]

what...

RSDS is a very debilitating chronic pain disorder, which in stage 4 can require amputation because of recurrent infections and/or gangrene.

Diagnosing it by photograph is a bit iffy. One of the most vexing parts of RSDS is tha it can move, reappearing in the residual limb or even in other parts of the body. The pain is so severe opiates sometimes don't work and treatment moves on to ketamine (street: Special K) etc.

Talk about a disorder that can drive people to the brink....

[HawkMan]

RSDS is a very debilitating chronic pain disorder, which in stage 4 can require amputation because of recurrent infections and/or gangrene.

Diagnosing it by photograph is a bit iffy. One of the most vexing parts of RSDS is tha it can move, reappearing in the residual limb or even in other parts of the body. The pain is so severe opiates sometimes don't work and treatment moves on to ketamine (street: Special K) etc.

Talk about a disorder that can drive people to the brink....

 

The what was more about the last part of his post that didn't make any sense.

[DocM]

The part about the treatment possibly being inadequate makes sense as he obviously hit the wall. The last part, not so much.

[PsYcHoKiLLa]

Gotta hand it to him. He really deserves a hand for taking things into his own hands like that.

On the other hand, it could have been handled better.

 

[Turk.]

Refusing to take no action is a medical negligence, from the OP, I inferred that, hospital has refused any palliative treatment.

Patient has past trauma history and end of the amputated limb atrophic due to non use cause RSD and non use of the extremity. If there had been any gross photo of pre-amputated hand, x ray, bone scintigraphy, CT, MRI of the amputated part posted, would have been good, however, no tumour, no chronic systemic disease, only past trauma history, amputation because of pain, I am confident diagnosing RSD (Sudec's) in this case.

[McKay]

The bad news can't all be blamed on the messenger. The whole smoke & fire thing.

Then explain the lower cancer 5 year survival vs the US or even the rest of Europe? Those reports haven't changed much in over 20 years. There's a UK cancer outcomes conference in June, so we'll see what comes of that.

 

 

So it fails because in one area other hospitals are better?

 

I suppose the American Healthcare has failed because of its 2nd world life expectancy, and 2nd world infant mortality rates?

[DocM]

The US is 1,2 years behind the UK and Belgium (79.8 v 81 years) and ahead of Denmark (79.5) and some other European nations (2013 WHO numbers), so? Most all the difference is among males because we tend not to take care of ourselves, postponing physicals etc., and the infant moratality rate.

Infant mortality is skewed by inner city numbers where teen or even pre-teen (10-13) pregnancy is a huge risk factor, and many mothers don't seek prenatal care IN SPITE OF ITS AVAILABILITY under several Federal and State programs. It's very frustrating to see them come in only if something goes wrong or when they go into labor. Then there are the drug addicted mothers, which are even worse.

Together these negligent and drug addicted mothers increase infant mortality greatly, and thereby lower the overall life expectancy.

[Mr. Gibs]

The bad news can't all be blamed on the messenger. The whole smoke & fire thing.

Then explain the lower cancer 5 year survival vs the US or even the rest of Europe? Those reports haven't changed much in over 20 years. There's a UK cancer outcomes conference in June, so we'll see what comes of that.

Where are you getting this information from? Because if you look at cancer.orgs statistics you'll find they're virtually identical with a 1-2% difference at the very most. Cervical cancer has a lower death rate in the UK, but breast cancer has a higher death in the UK for example.

And you're forgetting the more important thing, nobody in the UK goes broke because of their hospital bill. Sure sometimes you get stories like this, but it's not like it doesn't happen here. Tons of people will refuse to go see a doctor because they don't want the bill that will follow. So a simple thing could turn into something more serious.

[DocM]

I'm getting it largely by comparing US and European numbers, particularly the Eurocare-5 study published by The Lancet Oncology. Rather depressing for many cancers, and this has been in the UK media for almost 20 years. It has been improving a bit, but the UK still lags the US and most of the rest of Western Europe for many cancers. That conference should be informative.

As to going broke, that is a problem but not as common as portrayed in many media reports. It may actually get worse under Obamacare because of lower quality policies and much higher out of pocket expenses causing even more people to run short.

Example: as an amputee I require regular service on my prostheses (2, main and backup), which may require socket refits etc. Before that was all covered at no cost or with a nominal deductable, but now we have to lay out the first $2,500 of medical supplies before the first $1 is covered. Other plans are much worse.

This is even true if a diabetic gets a wound cared for by home nursing - we would have to buy the bandaging supplies that were provided free before.