Worrying about the future of Windows

[Ian S.]

From what Microsoft has shown off at Build, I am worried about the future of Modern UI apps. Especially by putting them into a windowed state and separating the mouse controls from the touch ones. I am worried that the apps won't be touch first or beautifully integrated. All the content on-screen now clutters the UI. Such as the bar with 3 dots at the bottom of IE 11 which just wastes space since I use touch, and I usually right click to open the URL bar.  Jensen Harris made a point that when users are lost they generally right-click anyways. I like the search button on the start screen and the power button, but the power only appears on non-touch and that is inconstancy. So is separating mouse and touch and not moving more settings to the PC settings in update 1. I also don't like the new store UI shown for update 1. It adds unnecessary UI. 

 

To remind you here are the original design principles.

• Pride in craftsmanship >> will be a big deal, for example being able to naturally pick up a tile with one finger and scroll with the other hand would not have been implemented without Jensen Harris, and I believe Myerson wouldn't have cared.
• Be fast and fluid
• Authentically digital
• Do more with less
• Win as one

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

TBH it will continue to be touch first for Modern apps. Not many desktop users even use modern apps, so I think you will be fine.

[trek]

I don't have a problem with this.

 

In any case, I'd be willing to bet that metro apps that are meant to be touch-first will have the UI designed as such.

[rfirth]

TBH it will continue to be touch first for Modern apps. Not many desktop users even use modern apps, so I think you will be fine.

 

Unless that changes.

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

Unless that changes.

I'd definitely use them if they were decent and useful. E.g. I could see replacing Adobe with the pdf reader if it Windowed or WMP with the movie player.

[Decebalvs Rex]

Don't worry , this soup-of-an-operating system is here only for the sake of transition , Microsoft needs time and resources to build up a new enviroment while maintaining compatibility features.

I hardly wait for win32 to be killed , hopefully @ Windows 10/11. I NEED something BIG like Vista , no more 300mb changes to the OS.

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

They're not necessarily desktop-ifying the modern UI apps. Instead Microsoft will give you the choice between the two UX paradigms. The choice they should have given users all along since the release of Windows 8.0.

[OctoPussy]

I'd definitely use them if they were decent and useful. E.g. I could see replacing Adobe with the pdf reader if it Windowed or WMP with the movie player.

yeah for me they are too slow. I am waiting for .Net Native (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/vstudio/dotnetnative), hopefully that should kick some life into Modern apps.

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

yeah for me they are too slow. I am waiting for .Net Native (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/vstudio/dotnetnative), hopefully that should kick some life into Modern apps.

ty, this .net native stuff is news to me  :D (I find the bit about them not depending on the .net runtime at all when natively compiled very interesting).

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

If I could run full blown apps like Photoshop CC or my 3D package (Maya) as a Modern app I may consider using metro, but that will never happen, so i doubt id be using Modern apps anytime soon :)

[PGHammer]

They're not necessarily desktop-ifying the modern UI apps. Instead Microsoft will give you the choice between the two UX paradigms. The choice they should have given users all along since the release of Windows 8.0.

Frank B. - that choice has been there since the Windows 8 Developer Preview, and was there with Windows 8 RTM - nothing in Windows 8 merely up to then took that choice away, and I have run both desktop and ModernUI software since.

Why did losing the Start menu suddenly (according to the critics) cause their keyboards and pointing devices to fail?

I've been using Windows 8 (since the Consumer Preview) as either primary OS or even ONLY OS, without any touch hardware to be found - my keyboard and mouse are the same ones from that period, so apparently they never stopped working.

If my keyboard and mouse stopped working, I could NOT run three (or even four at one point) operating systems in rotation - the same keyboard and mouse is used with them all.

 

Yet according to those same critics, it couldn't be done.

 

It can be done, and has been able to be done - as long as you haven't put the pointing device ahead of the keyboard (basically, become pointing-device-centric).

 

The order in which they put the two devices in their criticism of the Start menu's banishment itself speaks volumes - they have, belatedly, realized that they are indeed pointing-device-centric, and are having to (grudgingly) admit it.

 

Would they have admitted that if the Start menu had not been banished?  It would be like all too many alcoholics or drug addicts admitting their (respective) conditions - while being locked in a liquor warehouse or pharmaceutical warehouse, respectively.  (In other words, not bloody likely!)

 

I called the Start menu's banishment "an intervention" for pointing-device-centric users in denial quite seriously - however, the hew and cry from the addicted is just as bad as those with far more serious addactions.

Edited April 8, 2014 by PGHammer

[DConnell Member]

If I could run full blown apps like Photoshop CC or my 3D package (Maya) as a Modern app I may consider using metro, but that will never happen, so i doubt id be using Modern apps anytime soon :)

 

Similarly, if full-blown apps were available for Modern, I'd almost never see the desktop.

 

I really wish developers would drop the "it's just for little apps and games" mindset. RDP, Teamviewer "Touch" prove you can get work done in Modern if the relevant apps exist, and hopefully Modern Office will as well.

[PGHammer]

If I could run full blown apps like Photoshop CC or my 3D package (Maya) as a Modern app I may consider using metro, but that will never happen, so i doubt id be using Modern apps anytime soon :)

Anarkii - what is stopping you from using those two applications as they are in Windows 8.1?

I don't use many ModernUI apps - however, those I DO use have a usage case.  (And this is on a traditional desktop without touch, so it's far from impossible.)

 

Traditional desktop-formfactor hardware certainly remains the most powerful of personal computers - that isn't disputed.  However, how many people need all that power even fifty percent of the time?

 

First up - portable computers are getting more powerful - that isn't in dispute.

Second - battery life of those same portables is also improving simultaneously with their performance.

Third - touch-screens on portables are becoming ubiquitous (unless you use only MacBooks).

 

I'm not talking low-end tablets and phablets running Android or RT, people - I'm talking tablets, phablets, netbooks, and notebooks running Windows (7, 8, and 8.1).  How long will it take before you can run Photoshop CC or Maya on one?  (From the specs of Surface Pro 2 alone, how about now?  The Surface Pro 2 is more powerful than my traditional desktop right now - in fact, it's more powerful than a LOT of traditional desktops.  And there are portables that will wax even a Surface Pro 2.  Heck, I could run either Photoshop CC or Maya on my admittedly-underpowered traditional desktop today - same applies to AutoCAD - not LT, but the big nasty eight-ton gorilla of CAD/CAM.  How much power do you actually need?)

 

Because of merely advances in the portable-hardware space, you need no longer trade power for portability.  (The operating system itself is utterly irrelevant there.)

 

Where the operating system becomes relevant is power application - in racing terms, where the rubber meets the road.  That is where operating-system developers and application developers - especially the latter - earn their money.  The Adobe user base, the Maya user base, even the Autodesk Software (they make a lot more than AutoCAD) user base are all admittedly niche usages - however, what if one, more, or even all, want to expand out of that niche?  (I can think of one example that is equally applicable to Adobe and Maya - video editing for uploading to YouTube - if not to TwitchTV for later broadcast.)  If you want to grow, you can't ignore users outside your current niches - even Adobe is finding out the hard way what happens when you do; how much has the usage of Adobe Premiere declined since the move to the cloud?

You may not notice what happens outside your niche - but you DO eventually notice when your niche itself is shrinking; however, by then, your niche is already obsolete.  It's why staying insular is typically the worst of things a software developer (especially an application developer or OS developer) can possibly do.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I really wish developers would drop the "it's just for little apps and games" mindset. RDP, Teamviewer "Touch" prove you can get work done in Modern if the relevant apps exist, and hopefully Modern Office will as well.

WinRT is incredibly limited in comparison to Win32. Developers are restricted in the APIs they can use and many of the compromises have been made for safety and power concerns (the latter is designed with tablets in mind). Not only that but they have to give Microsoft at 30% cut of the profits, as Metro apps can't be sold outside of the Windows Store.

 

Until Microsoft opens up the platform it will continue to be a niche player, used mainly for mobile ports and casual games.

[Ian S.]

If I could run full blown apps like Photoshop CC or my 3D package (Maya) as a Modern app I may consider using metro, but that will never happen, so i doubt id be using Modern apps anytime soon :)

But while I agree apps should be as powerful as their desktop client, copying the crappy desktop UI, toolbars, drop-down menus, mouse right click menus are not a good solution option to incorporate in the Modern UI, windowing those apps may cause devs to decide to do that.

[Osiris]

I worry that some of the changes too will reduce the usability of touch which I have greatly enjoyed on my win8 tablets and now so on the pro2 but I think MS has it covered as they can see the direction the market is heading.  Mouse and keyboard will for many years to come have their place as being great input devices to do certain things but overall mobile/tablet devices will eventually eclipse desktop sales and touch is being built into more and more things from baseline laptops to more monitor builds and sizes.  The desktop UI is not conducive to touch nor NUI so it will either continue to change or eventually be relegated with a version of metro again put at the forefront probably in Windows X.

[Dot Matrix]

There shouldn't be an issue. Metro apps have the ability to scale, unlike desktop apps. Metro applications will advance with time, the beautiful thing about them is that Universal Apps will carry them to the next level.