119 posts in this topic

I doubt any animal has awareness of what a knife if, much less that it's throat has been slit since it won't feel it. no more cruel than rows of cows going into a slaughterhouse, being stunned, in front of the others and violently hung upside down one by one. 

They are not stunned in front of the others at all. The animals are separated from the others, stunned, slaughtered, and then removed to another room before the next animal is brought in.

 

Two reasons this is done... 1. It's to stop the animals getting stressed. This causes them to release stress hormones resulting in tougher, less tasty meat. B. it is less barbaric. Any animal with a central nervous system, e.g. mammals, will definitely feel the knife and die in agony. That's why they stun them first.

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Religion. I just chortle at the lunacy of it.

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They are not stunned in front of the others at all. The animals are separated from the others, stunned, slaughtered, and then removed to another room before the next animal is brought in.

 

Two reasons this is done... 1. It's to stop the animals getting stressed. This causes them to release stress hormones resulting in tougher, less tasty meat. B. it is less barbaric. Any animal with a central nervous system, e.g. mammals, will definitely feel the knife and die in agony. That's why they stun them first.

 

Except there have been done tests showing they don't feel the knife, just as we know from human experience that a sharp clean knife can make extreme cuts and not be felt. 

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At least there's been no real religious rhetoric about this issue. That's a good thing. It's simply a financial decision by some of the franchisees, probably affecting Subways that cater to an area with a predominantly Muslim population, and not the majority of Subways in the U.K. There's nothing to see here, so let's move on.

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I do not eat ham, or bacon. Because they stink. However, Muslims, and Jewish and some Christians do not eat bacon, ham: Because they believe pigs are disgustingly dirty scavengers, eat their own faeces, and not jealous of their female partners

Really? I was told it was because they (Muslims, at least) see Pigs as the closest relations to Man, instead of the scientific interpretation of Monkeys. In short, why kill/eat a Pig when it could be your "spiritual" brother...

Eitherway, Pig meat (Pork) is fairly cheap and if a human is hungry enough they WILL eat that because it's always better than starving. We are all humans on the inside irrespective of any religious beliefs.

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Really? I was told it was because they (Muslims, at least) see Pigs as the closest relations to Man, instead of the scientific interpretation of Monkeys. In short, why kill/eat a Pig when it could be your "spiritual" brother...

 

ROFL, who was the halfwit who told you that? And you even believed them? I salute your stupidity sir. :D
 

Eitherway, Pig meat (Pork) is fairly cheap and if a human is hungry enough they WILL eat that because it's always better than starving. We are all humans on the inside irrespective of any religious beliefs.

 

In which case there is no sin. The Quran says:

 

5:03 

"Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

 

See how explanative and precise the Quran is about exactly what is allowed and what's not? That's the beauty of the Book revealed more than 1300 years ago, and applicable for all mankind till eternity.

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, and applicable for all mankind till eternity.

 

 

No it's applicable to those who chose to follow it, stop thinking your way is the one and only way and that anyone who doesn't follow your way is wrong. 

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This is the most misreported news item of the week.

 

It is NOT to do with a supposed "demand" from the Muslim community.

 

It IS to do with this:

 

* Subway is a franchise, as such any store can stock any items they want from a range

* Each store is managed by a local manager

* Some areas clearly will not sell as many pork-based foods due to higher local Muslim populations

* Currently some stores are using two suppliers, one for Halal meat and one for more traditionally slaughtered meats

 

As such, if the pork is not selling well, you look at the cost of stocking it.  You also factor in the cost of using two suppliers when one would suffice.

 

But no, people have to bend this to be a racial issue don't they.

 

####ing hate how ignorant and blinkered people are at times!

 

Tell me, because I'm a bit confused... Which *race* is Islam or Muslim exactly?

All other things, aside, why is Halal cruel ? 

 

numerous independent reports say that animals slaughtered by cutting the throat while conscious to bleed to do not feel any pain and will pass out quickly from the blood loss to the brain. and they feel no more pain than from the stun gun. 

 

a lot of people have this assumption that because they're "awake" and being cut there's this huge pain. anyone who's had a serious cut will also tell you a cut with a clean sharp knife won't be felt for a long time. long after they have passed out from blood loss. 

 

http://www.animalfrontiers.org/content/2/3/64.full

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Animal welfare concerns must always override barbaric religious rituals.

Stunning an animal before slaughtering is not halal, as far as I'm aware. It's meant to be fully awake and aware its throat is being cut.  sick.gif

 

If they want to pander to a minority population, that's their choice. Just as mine will be to no longer buy my lunch there.

No, animal meat is only halal when the animal is in peace, with its needs satisfied (water, food) and when the animal is slaughtered, it must be done with the sharpest possible knife, as quick as possible, without any torture, pain, or suffering to the animal.

So, annoy the majority just to please a few? Sounds kind of dumb.

Kind of like kosher meat, to make it fair for everyone, and to increase customer base (mostly this).

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Watch a halal slaughtering, then tell me it doesn't feel pain.  I have, and I've also been inside the killing room of an abattoir.  I know which is less cruel.

me too and I know which is less cruel too - a clue its not the one you think.

Really? I was told it was because they (Muslims, at least) see Pigs as the closest relations to Man, instead of the scientific interpretation of Monkeys. In short, why kill/eat a Pig when it could be your "spiritual" brother...

Eitherway, Pig meat (Pork) is fairly cheap and if a human is hungry enough they WILL eat that because it's always better than starving. We are all humans on the inside irrespective of any religious beliefs.

where did you hear that?  :laugh:

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Really? I was told it was because they (Muslims, at least) see Pigs as the closest relations to Man, instead of the scientific interpretation of Monkeys. In short, why kill/eat a Pig when it could be your "spiritual" brother...

Eitherway, Pig meat (Pork) is fairly cheap and if a human is hungry enough they WILL eat that because it's always better than starving. We are all humans on the inside irrespective of any religious beliefs.

No, it's because of this in Quran

He has made unlawful for you that which dies of itself and blood and the flesh of swine and that on which the name of any other than Allah has been invoked. But he who is driven by necessity, being neither disobedient nor exceeding the limit, then surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

Again, see the flexibility of the Quran.

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Trust me V9s if you met a Muslim from 2000 years back,

I have to nitpick this: theres no muslims 2000 years back, its an islamic propaganda in qur'an that said influential figures predates muhammad was muslims.

I would encourages any non-muslim here to NOT buy such islamic propaganda.

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I have to nitpick this: theres no muslims 2000 years back, its an islamic propaganda in qur'an that said influential figures predates muhammad was muslims.

I would encourages any non-muslim here to NOT buy such islamic propaganda.

 

Well the same would apply for 100 years back, 2oo, 300 and so on. 

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But here is where we get to the crux of the matter, because THEY call THEMSELVES "proper Muslims".

 

Who am I to say they're not?  If someone tells me they're a true believer, then it's not my place to tell them they're wrong, is it?  It's the place of other "true believers" to do that, and who am I to say who is right and who isn't?  Perhaps both are right, or perhaps it's neither...

 

You see a muslim drinking alcohol/eating pork, prior knowledge tells you that that's a no-no in Islam, when that particular muslim calls himself a "proper muslim," basic common sense tells you that either that person is wrong, or you have incomplete knowledge of the subject.

 

You then either:

 

- Look it up, and then enter into discussions regarding Islam

- Don't enter into such discussions if you cannot be bothered.

 

So, FloatingFatMan, i'm sure that over the years you've spent your time discussing religion on Neowin, you must've learned of some acts (like drinking alcohol or eating pork) that are forbidden in Islam, so yes, that does give you precedence to call such muslims out.

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Trust me V9s if you met a Muslim from 2000 years back, he would stone you for being a heretic and not being a proper Muslim. Things have changed, but only smaller subtle things. To get with the times religions sometimes need to change bigger things as well. Like some Muslims have done, and it doesn't make them any less Muslim. Not to rational people anyway, but Muslims love to condemn other people for some reasons. It's like the damn Westboro.

 

:D I am a heretic actually - my beliefs will have me killed even by the muslims of today.

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These sort of threads provide good excuses of unfair thrashing down Muslims and Jews for illiterates.

Leviticus 11:7-8: And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8: And the pig, because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud, is unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch.

 

It is just because religions rule, some religions follow and some doesn't follow.

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These sort of threads provide good excuses of unfair thrashing down Muslims and Jews for illiterates.

Leviticus 11:7-8: And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.

Deuteronomy 14:8: And the pig, because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud, is unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch.

 

It is just because religions rule, some religions follow and some doesn't follow.

They are old testament, xtians follow the new testament.

 

So the old testament is close to the Torah, which Judaism follow and Catholics follow the Old testament, so Catholics should keep off the pork also.

 

As I said before, Islam is not race specific, a lot of Caucasians that live in Russia are Islamic.

 

The country with the most amount of Islamics is Indonesia and they are oriental looking.

 

To the point, SubWay are shooting themselves in the balls if they think by pandering to a minority is going to improve their business, it won't they will go bankrupt.

 

I know Jews and Muslims that drink alcohol and eat pork.

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Subway are trying to push someone else's religion upon me, that's a no-no...

 

post-66220-0-13960100-1399201489.jpg 

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Subway are trying to push someone else's religion upon me, that's a no-no...

 

No they're not. this affects a very small percentage of their business, probably in bigger cities with several Subways and only the ones in areas of the cities where the vast majority or not all the customers are Muslim. They're not forcing anything on you. there's still like 1300 Subways in Brittain that serves ham. 

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