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HawkMan

America Fights smartguns

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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/us/politics/smart-firearm-draws-wrath-of-the-gun-lobby.html

 

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/5/5683504/gun-control-the-nra-wants-to-take-smart-guns-away

 

America fighting smartguns because they make gun ownership safer. NRA getting ever more ridiculous. Being gun and tech it's weird none of the gun enthusiasts on Neowin hasn't posted this yet. 

 

At this point the fear that non smart guns will be illegal any time soon seems ridiculous as this one gun isn't going to qualify as general availability, price would also account for it, so their fear that guns will become to expensive(:rolleyes:) also seems unfounded, smartguns will become a lot cheaper as they become generally available. 

 

as for tech reliability. maybe they need to back up those nebulous claims with some facts. 

 

I'm more surprised that there actually is a law that will ban non smartguns when smartguns become generally available to the public. but the NRA threatening to but burn stores that sell them and threathening the owners... that's just unacceptable and shows that many of these gun owners should never be allowed to own a gun. 

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i certainly do not want my gun to connect to the internet

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Consider this: if smart guns were such a great idea why doesn't law enforcement embrace them?

The idea of a "practical" smart gun got another undeserved boost with its appearance in Skyfall.

The fact is that smart guns often aren't that smart. They have a problem with misfiring (not good if you're being attacked) and if the battery is weak may not work at all.

Some types depend on a finger or palm-print reader, which can be spoofed, while others depend on a ring or other item worn by the registered user which can be appropriated if they are overpowered. Many can also be modded to bypass the system.

In reality they are an expensive gimmick that has not done well in the market, so the promoters did a great product placement in Skyfall and got the gun control people wound up.

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I'd never heard of em.  But the NRA being afraid of change would not surprise me.

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"Smart" guns are not that smart and actually dangerous when you actually need one, there's a reason no one anywhere has made one, not just teh US, they are unreliable and impractical

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NO device comes to market perfect. With production, new models get better and better. You all are insane not to want this.

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NO device comes to market perfect. With production, new models get better and better. You all are insane not to want this.

If there were better stats on suicide, they probably wouldn't have any problems with it.

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Consider this: if smart guns were such a great idea why doesn't law enforcement embrace them?

The idea of a "practical" smart gun got another undeserved boost with its appearance in Skyfall.

The fact is that smart guns often aren't that smart. They have a problem with misfiring (not good if you're being attacked) and if the battery is weak may not work at all.

Some types depend on a finger or palm-print reader, which can be spoofed, while others depend on a ring or other item worn by the registered user which can be appropriated if they are overpowered. Many can also be modded to bypass the system.

In reality they are an expensive gimmick that has not done well in the market, so the promoters did a great product placement in Skyfall and got the gun control people wound up.

 

 

That's not the argument here. As far as I can tell conventional firearms aren't being discontinued. You can still buy your "non-smart gun".

 

Why are people threatening and intimidating some women who is trying to market this device? Are smart guns not protected by the 2nd amendment? The lady in the article sums it up perfectly:

 

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NO device comes to market perfect. With production, new models get better and better. You all are insane not to want this.

So while the bugs get worked out everyone should carry a weapon with a high probability of malfunction? Apply that to electronic steering on cars, which was only recently allowed on the street after decades of development with numerous troubles.

The fact is that small arms electronic fire control of all kinds have a LONG history of failure, sometimes not discharging when they should and other times going off when they shouldn't because of an RF or magnetic field spike.

No thanks.

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If they pull out the law about being required when generally available, there would be less backlash, but i still believe it would be high. If a law is needed maybe refine it only to automatic/semi automatic weapons. 

 

The real issue here is why the backlash is so violent from a group of people who by association have weapons to attack with. If it can be found that the NRA actually called for these threats, then it should be listed as a terrorist organization. Then be dismantled and people calling from violence be removed.

 

I'm ok with the idea of smart guns, but as Doc said not without better reliability testing, however the best way to get real world testing is to test them in the real world, if people want to buy them then let them buy them. Maybe with a some kind of labeling about concerns about malfunction. 

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So while the bugs get worked out everyone should carry a weapon with a high probability of malfunction? Apply that to electronic steering on cars, which was only recently allowed on the street after decades of development with numerous troubles.

The fact is that small arms electronic fire control of all kinds have a LONG history of failure, sometimes not discharging when they should and other times going off when they shouldn't because of an RF or magnetic field spike.

No thanks.

there would be little adaptation for those in critical situations. Almost virtually 100% of firearms are not actually "used" for self defence. You may have a gun for your own piece of mind but its almost a 100% certainty you will never use it for that purpose.  But as with most people that own a gun, they will however use it at a firing range (or wherever) for shooting stuff for fun. Here is where the bugs will be worked out. Don't trust it any ways? Almost all gun people have more than 1 gun, carry that one until you grow old and die. The next generation will carry the new ones that are almost flawless. (even the guns now don't work a guarenteed 100% of the time)

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Let me guess, smart guns are more safer, but the end goal of smart guns, is that in the future when the nwo starts to play, people who own guns wont even be able to defend themselves becuase the gun will know that the guy youre pointing at is a policeman. They are just trying to dumb down the nation.

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Let me guess, smart guns are more safer, but the end goal of smart guns, is that in the future when the nwo starts to play, people who own guns wont even be able to defend themselves becuase the gun will know that the guy youre pointing at is a policeman. They are just trying to dumb down the nation.

 

 

Didn't even read up on what they are did you, much less the articles.

 

the ones in discussion here is a simple handgun that won't fire unless the shooter is also wearing a "watch" that has a short range radio signal that unlocks the firing mechanism. 

 

Don't see how these would fire on their own as either, since as I understand it, it's not electronic firing, just electronic safety. and some of you even go on about how guns are safe without safety. 

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there would be little adaptation for those in critical situations. Almost virtually 100% of firearms are not actually "used" for self defence. You may have a gun for your own piece of mind but its almost a 100% certainty you will never use it for that purpose. But as with most people that own a gun, they will however use it at a firing range (or wherever) for shooting stuff for fun. Here is where the bugs will be worked out. Don't trust it any ways? Almost all gun people have more than 1 gun, carry that one until you grow old and die. The next generation will carry the new ones that are almost flawless. (even the guns now don't work a guarenteed 100% of the time)

Thanks for proving proving how little you know about firearms or the defensibe use of same in the US.

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Thanks for proving proving how little you know about firearms or the defensibe use of same in the US.

 

lets take your own experience, Doc M, have you ever discharged your firearm in the USA at a person in self-defence?

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Is reliability really the issue here? If you don't want a smart gun, buy a regular one. God knows there are no shortage of guns in the U.S.

 

WTF does the NRA or any gun advocacy group care what kind of gun you buy? Aren't they just supposed to protect your right to buy them, not which ones to buy?

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More importantly, where do they get off threatening to burn down stores or kill store owners for selling these guns to families who want them, because they want a gun for safety but they also want their family to be safe from the gun...

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There's hotheads & poor statements on all sides.

As for their supposed increased safety, that is not true. They have failure modes conventional guns do not have. That's why you don't see law enforcement using them.

1) becomes a rock if the battery dies

2) they a computer and some have a wireless connection to an authentocation device, meaning they'e open to malware and hacking

3) because of 2 they may be open to jamming, which would be a helluva shock to a defender if muggers got them

etc etc

I am not against safer firearms, and neither is the NRA or 99% of gun owners. The problem is how you go about it. This ain't it.

lets take your own experience, Doc M, have you ever discharged your firearm in the USA at a person in self-defence?

Yes, and I have made several citizens arrests and have stated as much here several times. You?

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So keep them charged they should require minimal power anyway and could like mice last for a year or more on a battery, and I'm sure it has a warning long before the battery starts to run out. 

 

Contrary to popular belief, not everything that's electronic can be hacked. Granted I don't know what system they use on this particular device but it shouldn't be an issue to make something that's at a base level incompatible with your computer WiFi  and thus would be hard, or impossible if they did their job right, to crack. 

 

Contrary to popular belief again, jamming isn't that easy, especially not on such a device that is so close to the other device. Provided they're on the same hand, or fired two handed, we're talking centimeters, you'd need a very powerful jammer to jam even a weak signal from a distance when the two devices are that close. 

 

And this all assumes that some home invader is going to come barging in loaded up with a custom laptop with custom jamming hardware. Hoping this particular jamming hardware is "compatible" with the smart gun you have, provided you have a smart gun. of course if it's a biometric, NFC, or even those body networks they where experimenting with before(using your body as a network to send signals between devices through skin contact or near skin contact), it's not going to do anything anyway. 

 

And how is a smart gun not safer for your family. 

 

regular gun, your 3-6 year old picks it up and shoots himself or a family member like another kid or friend on purpose or accident like has happened numerous times. A smart gun, the kid picks up it and... well he shoots no one. 

 

No one shot seems a lot safer than some one shot to me ...

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They aren't safer if I need to use one and cannot because the SOB won't fire.

Many use RFID, which IS very hackable. You should know that. Portable jammers can be bought or built.

Those that use finger or palm print sensors need to work even when covered in sweat, dirt, or blood, and once the firearm is armed it needs to keep working regardless of loosend grip due to situational events. This is why the police are wary of them.

Our "night guns" are stored in side table drawer mounted gun safes in the bedroom, with their mags out. We also started teaching firearm safety virtually from birth.

Baddies may have more to fear from my sons crossbow.

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Even if the gun won't fire the baddies are most(I didn't say guaranteed) likely to run anyway when he sees a gun. he doesn't need to know it won't fire. 

 

and even RFID would need the perp to be fairly close or carry some very powerful jamming gear. 

 

and again, he needs to have the right jamming gear for the gun you have. 

 

you're circling the point though. for the family who just wants the gun for potential safety and are 99% or more not likely to EVER need it, it's safer for their family. 

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They aren't safer if I need to use one and cannot because the SOB won't fire.

Many use RFID, which IS very hackable. You should know that. Portable jammers can be bought or built.

Those that use finger or palm print sensors need to work even when covered in sweat, dirt, or blood, and once the firearm is armed it needs to keep working regardless of loosend grip due to situational events. This is why the police are wary of them.

Our "night guns" are stored in side table drawer mounted gun safes in the bedroom, with their mags out. We also started teaching firearm safety virtually from birth.

Baddies may have more to fear from my sons crossbow.

 

None of which is any reason to just suppress the technology before it's even had a chance to become safe and reliable.

 

Technology progresses.  Eventually, smart guns will appear that, like Judge Dredds, won't fire for anyone but the owner completely reliably and might even render a shock back to the unauthorised user (because exploding is a bit OTT :p ).

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None of which is any reason to just suppress the technology before it's even had a chance to become safe and reliable.

 

Technology progresses.  Eventually, smart guns will appear that, like Judge Dredds, won't fire for anyone but the owner completely reliably and might even render a shock back to the unauthorised user (because exploding is a bit OTT :p ).

 

He lives in Detroit... 

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He lives in Detroit... 

 

Yeah, but I'm sure he doesn't want his own gun to explode! That'd be expensive... :p

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There's hotheads & poor statements on all sides.

 

 

Really? Where are the people who want to sell this gun threatening anyone?

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