Save the Planet. Kill the Birds.

[Andre S. Veteran]

I don't dispute any of that. The point is that there is no effective way to deal with nuclear waste - it can be reduced, in many cases dramatically, but what remains is simply buried underground. It is not a clean alternative to renewable energy, though it makes sense as a bridging technology until better replacements come along.

Well, any large-scale means of energy production causes some damage to the environment, so none is really clean. It's a matter of finding sustainable alternatives that allow us to meet our rising needs in energy. Small amounts of relatively short-lived radioactive materials that are meticulously isolated from the environment is hard to beat in terms of environmental impact vs the sheer capacity and stability of these reactors.

 

India and China (37% of the world's population!) are massively transitioning to nuclear energy with plans to shift towards thorium reactors in a few decades, and that's really the only choice they have to get out of coal fired plants in an economically viable way. Meanwhile, Germany and Japan have massively increased their reliance on fossil fuels and their greenhouse gas emissions following their political moves of banning nuclear energy. See

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-28/merkel-s-green-shift-backfires-as-german-pollution-jumps.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/15/us-climate-japan-idUSBRE9AE00P20131115

 

Renewables are going to be part of the energy mix but it's complete utopia to think they can sustain most of the world's exploding energy needs. The backbone will be either fossil fuels or nuclear, and unfortunately, politics, irrationality and fear are keeping fossil fuels around for much longer than they should. We'll all be paying the price shortly when global temperatures rise above +2C over averages.

[FloatingFatMan]

The same goes for bats, many of which are also endangered and protected - and when they swarm to get the insects attracted by the bright lights they can be killed in large numbers.

 

Umm... but bats only fly at night, insects only get attracted to lights because it's dark out and the lights are visible, and these solar farms only function in the day.

 

I can see the issue with birds... but bats? Naaaaah...

[HawkMan]

Umm... but bats only fly at night, insects only get attracted to lights because it's dark out and the lights are visible, and these solar farms only function in the day.

 

I can see the issue with birds... but bats? Naaaaah...

 

It's basically the same as with the wind farms cutting up birds.

 

it's an invented scare. most from the people against these farms for some reason or other. 

[FloatingFatMan]

It's basically the same as with the wind farms cutting up birds.

 

it's an invented scare. most from the people against these farms for some reason or other. 

 

Indeed.  If it's really that much of a problem, just put a really tall fence up!

[theyarecomingforyou]

Renewable energy isn't viable at this point in time.

Nonsense. Sweden produces half of its energy from renewables, while countries like Latvia, Finland, Austria, Portugal and Denmark produce about one-third. By contrast the US produces about 19% of its energy nuclear power, with Germany and the UK producing even less.

 

Well, any large-scale means of energy production causes some damage to the environment, so none is really clean. It's a matter of finding sustainable alternatives that allow us to meet our rising needs in energy. Small amounts of relatively short-lived radioactive materials that are meticulously isolated from the environment is hard to beat in terms of environmental impact vs the sheer capacity and stability of these reactors.

As I said, I think some nuclear energy is a sensible idea. I just don't think that committing to plants that will last 40-50 years and produce nuclear waste that will take countless thousands of years to decay is appropriate for the majority of energy production.

 

India and China (37% of the world's population!) are massively transitioning to nuclear energy with plans to shift towards thorium reactors in a few decades, and that's really the only choice they have to get out of coal fired plants in an economically viable way. Meanwhile, Germany and Japan have massively increased their reliance on fossil fuels and their greenhouse gas emissions following their political moves of banning nuclear energy.

China is being forced to transition to nuclear energy because it is suffering from crippling pollution after building coal based power plants at a rate of four per week. Germany and Japan have increased fossil fuel usage in the short term due to a public backlash against nuclear energy.

[HawkMan]

 

Nonsense. Sweden produces half of its energy from renewables, while countries like Latvia, Finland, Austria, Portugal and Denmark produce about one-third. By contrast the US produces about 19% of its energy nuclear power, with Germany and the UK producing even less.

 

 

 

Irrelevant, Norway and Sweden have an abundant source of Hydro power. Sweden uses nuclear actually, Norway is pretty much 100% self sufficient from renewable hydro. granted due to economics and overproduction and prices, a lot of it gets exported while we buy back dirty power.

 

However, our countries don't represent what's possible in the rest of the world. it's like saying the entire world can be 90% supplied by renewable thermal power because iceland can. 

[HawkMan]

Hydro power also poses another problem, especially in countries that relies on their natural beauty for a lot of their income. 

 

Hydro requires one of two things.

 

1. Long beautiful waterfalls, gets put in pipes

2.HUGE areas of land gets put under water, ruining ecology, nature and beauty. 

 

Land based wind farms have many of the same issues. While the bird chopping issue is a non issue. planting hundreds of giant wind turbines on a beautiful landscape ruins it visually. They also have issues with the shadows causing disruptive patterns if anyone lives nearby which can cause migraines or even epilepsy. this is mostly an issue with personal home generators though, which is solved by the new vertical curved blade turbines. 

 

The best solution for wind farms are sea based farms anyway. they don't disrupt anyone and it's practically always windy and nothing to slow it down. ironically some nature first groups are fighting these as well... but.. eh... 

 

the big untapped source for now, since there's still not a good enough technology, is wave and tide power. a lot of new technology and types of generators is being created for this among the small testbeds that are in use today. 

 

as a bonus, the tide NEVER stops unlike wind and solar. well not for a few (hundred)thousand years when the moon leaves us anyway :p

[DocM]

Umm... but bats only fly at night,

Incorrect. First, not all bats are nocturnal. The majority yes, but not all. During spring and summer even the "nocturnal" ones start swarming an hour or two before sunset, and can sometimes be seen midday, but in fall and warm winter days they often fly during daylight hours. They're usually mistaken for birds when they do.

In my youth on the farm the bats in our barns followed one rule: if the insects were out in force and it wasn't blistering hot, or if it was cool, they were hunting.

[FloatingFatMan]

Incorrect. First, not all bats are nocturnal. The majority yes, but not all. During spring and summer even the "nocturnal" ones start swarming an hour or two before sunset, and can sometimes be seen midday, but in fall and warm winter days they often fly during daylight hours. They're usually mistaken for birds when they do.

In my youth on the farm the bats in our barns followed one rule: if the insects were out in force and it wasn't blistering hot, or if it was cool, they were hunting.

 

Okay, but even so... That makes it daylight, so what's attracting the bugs to swarm?  Can't be any bright light because there isn't really one to speak of, and once it's dark enough to BE one, there's no longer a power source to MAKE it.

 

So again... Bats? Naaaaaaah....

[DocM]

Ever seen moths etc. drawn to a candle flame or lamp? Same deal, insects like bright lights, only the "candle" is a lot bigger.

[FloatingFatMan]

Of course I have, when it's dark elsewhere.

 

Looking at that pic, I don't think it's bright enough in daylight to be that big an attraction.  Especially as, as you said, it'd be close to dusk before the bats came out, so wouldn't even be as bright as that.

[DocM]

You're not an insect. Some have a positive phototaxic response and move towards the brightest things they see. Others move away (a negative phototaxis.) No one knows why, but in the 1970's it was theorized that some female insects pheramones flouresce in IR and many bright sources include those wavelengths. Males drawn to them sometimes get fried.

Whatever, if the bugs are there, so are the bats and small birds. Ground animals go after the fallen streamers. They all attract the raptors looking for easy meals.