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The solution to the problem is solve another problem ignoring the one at hand! We need a fast solution and long term solution, the fast solution is to raise the minimum wage, the long term solution is to entice companies to bring jobs here instead of where minimum wages is .20c an hour. They should atleast give a living wage, as that was what it was designed for, which today is around $15 an hour.

 

Yes, because that is the only problem! /s

People with degrees in other fields are struggling too, all fields are struggling except for the tech and service industries.

I totally agree with you on the out-sourcing thing. I despise companies that do that. To me its like you are stabbing america in the back when you do that, just so the CEO can buy another yacht that they don't really need.

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Maybe because its mathematically impossible to make ends meet with those kinds of jobs for a full family?

 

That is generalization that everyone that works there will have a full family....  But what about those who are single and possibly enjoy working at these type of jobs? Don't they desire to make a salary that's close to the cost of living?

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I was a Cpl, I no longer am active duty. $2,000/12 hours a day / 5 days a  week / 4 days a month == Approx $8.33 an hour. Granted there is hazardous duty pay and combat pay, it's beside the point. Flipping burgers is easy. Period. It is not hard to get a better job, unless you have no skills. But even some janitors make a decent living.

It is a shame what they pay the people who may have to defend our country.

 

I totally agree with you on the out-sourcing thing. I despise companies that do that. To me its like you are stabbing america in the back when you do that, just so the CEO can buy another yacht that they don't really need.

Thats what makes it sickening, they should 100% protect their revenue, profits on the other hand shouldn't be increasing year over year in the multi-billions with no improvements to worker conditions.

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Have a degree in Multimedia Production and Digital Design.
Do I use it? No.
Ended up stuck in vocational limbo for 2yrs trying to get my foot in the door as an apprentice. No joy.
Am now middle management in a 4 star hotel.
And that`s also meant having to work all the cheap ass, crummy jobs in between such as McD`s. (Lasted a year then had to get the hell out, horrid conditions, kitchen like a shoe box.)
Even had to start as a laundry porter in current job. Heck we have 3 people in a staff of 12 right now that are at head of department level working as room attendants or public area cleaners.

To say the people in these jobs are all ignorant teens, or foreigners, or halfwits is nonsense. Many are actually there simply because its a job!
And once in a secure job, theres a level of comfort, and in many cases to the individual, aspirations!
Some of the shittiest jobs Ive had over the years, Ive met some of the best people and had some of the best fun. Plus sitting in an office isn`t a one size fits all glove.
Nor can we have a world of nothing but CEO`s. Circumstance is a harsh mistress to many and not often thru choice.

 

Tho in saying that, people who play the victim, or seem to have woes only upon to themselves. Well ya`ll can go for a long walk off a short peer.

If things are like what they are in the UK, then YES! I say give them a decent living wage and make it pay to work, because the alternative for us has been a benefits culture.
One of the most mis-used social welfare projects ever put to good use. That`s not to say it shouldn`t exist that`s a whole other topic.

Tho we don`t even pay folk "living wage". Our "minimum wage" is about ?1phr under it and with the introduction of the 0hr contract well.
More people in work, but quality of work is god awful.

Dont think its all too wrong to treat the people working as human, instead of creating a whole under class of working poor simply so we can keep the status qou.

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The problem is to equal what the rate for minimum wage was 30 years ago, we need $15 today, and more tomorrow. People should always aspire for more, but they should be able to do it without struggling more for less than they used to 30 years ago.

People should always aspire for me. Like I said, these fast food jobs like most retail jobs have typically be reserved for High School kids, early college students. Now we have people working these fast food jobs and possibly another job while trying to pay for healthcare and raise a family. These fast food jobs were never meant for this.

 

When I was in college I worked several min wage jobs, until I couldn't afford to do that anymore. I looked for a higher paying job that fit my income needs, then decided to work a few internships some were unpaid. I did this for 3 years after graduating from college, and I know the feeling to be stuck with not being able to find a job, but I kept searching till I found something. For me I worked hard to get to a salary based job and now these people want to protest for $15 and hour something that took me 3 years to achieve by working hard.  Thats were I'm ######. 

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People should always aspire for me. Like I said, these fast food jobs like most retail jobs have typically be reserved for High School kids, early college students. Now we have people working these fast food jobs and possibly another job while trying to pay for healthcare and raise a family. These fast food jobs were never meant for this.

 

When I was in college I worked several min wage jobs, until I couldn't afford to do that anymore. I looked for a higher paying job that fit my income needs, then decided to work a few internships some were unpaid. I did this for 3 years after graduating from college, and I know the feeling to be stuck with not being able to find a job, but I kept searching till I found something. For me I worked hard to get to a salary based job and now these people want to protest for $15 and hour something that took me 3 years to achieve by working hard.  Thats were I'm ######. 

If minimum wage rose properly with cost of living, you'd most likely be earning over $20 an hour at your position.

 

The minimum wage is what is at stake here, and that WAS designed to give employees a living wage.

 

The problem is made worse since the minimum wages hasn't increased it stagnated other 'medium' level salaries, as there was no incentive to push those wages higher. It's more than minimum afterall. Which just proves the point that these companies will not do anything to increase worker conditions unless forced too.

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Yes it is, even when it was created it was stated as such by the creators.

 

?No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.? (1933, Statement on National Industrial Recovery Act)

Ok, so people who have machines count money and make sure its not stolen should earn more money than people who manually count money, and still have to make sure it doesn't get stolen while also cooking a burger, filling a drink, maintaining inventory, and the countless other tasks they complete deserve less? Food service workers have much more responsibility.

you do know, working at a bank doesn't just mean you sit at a counter and count money.... there are lots of jobs at a bank.... I know IT people that work at said banks that make that same amount...

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you do know, working at a bank doesn't just mean you sit at a counter and count money.... there are lots of jobs at a bank.... I know IT people that work at said banks that make that same amount...

Yes I do, I'm am just stating that there is an equal if not more work and skill required in the foodservice industry. Both employees are trusted to handle money, look professional, and be able to deal with customers, while handling the business's business. I guess I was saying they should be paid more because they are treated worse in foodservice due to the stereotypes that surround that field of work.

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Food service industry doesn't just mean fast food, I have seen plenty of, both chain and non chain, restaurants that have kind courteous staff that should be earning more than 2.35 an hour + tips. The mindset that these people are "worth less" needs to change. If you really want to keep children down, add a clause to keep underage minor at a lower rate, but don't hurt adults who have no mean to earn a living wage. I am not saying these people need to live in excess, but they should struggle the way they have been for 30 years.

I never said restaurant places did I? I think the whole "let me pay you $2 an hour because of tips" to be despicable.

I was talking specifically about fast food.

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I never said restaurant places did I? I think the whole "let me pay you $2 an hour because of tips" to be despicable.

I was talking specifically about fast food.

I'm was talking about all minimum wage jobs.

 

What is the difference between fast food and restaurants other than tip pay? Both offer the exact same services, except they are handled differently.

 

Why should fast food companies, most of which are huge corporations, get away with paying less for more work, compared to any other equal skill set jobs?

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Okay, I was alittle off. http://www.businessinsider.com/what-a-walmart-wage-hike-would-cost-you-2013-7#!K4RPV

 

If it was $12.50, it would go up about .70c A TRIP! A 1.1% price increase isn't going to destroy the economy. 1.5%=/- a .1% for $15 an hour.

 

Quit acting like I didn't do my research when I am way closer than you to being correct. Please never argue anywhere without proper facts, it makes you look foolish.

 

 
 

All 38+ hour legal jobs should pay a living wage. Theres no point in a job where one person cannot live off of their earnings.

 

Mkay, so how about in businesses where they DON'T source all of their materials from China? Small business especially has such a low profit margin that they won't be able to handle the wage increase.There are many, many businesses that require minimum wage workers to even stay somewhat afloat. And if the wage increase were to happen (no one is that stupid though so it won't) they would be gone, and we get left with horrid customer service, and sub par products because everyone is fighting for every last dollar.  (I don't shop at Walmart by the way, so your article reference isn't relevant at all)

 

PS. When places are forced to increase wages, most of the time that means job losses. So, you go from making $11 an hour, to nothing. Can they thank you personally for that?

 

I feel sorry for people that never think of the actual issue, and just spout out what they read on news sites, although I agree that in some industries that are paid minimum wage, should not be. At all.

 

 

People are driven by greed, and as such will do whatever it takes to keep their cushy salaries and yachts.

 

 

 

 

As to your second comment, the point of a lot of jobs is to build character, not just make a wage. Fast food is supposed to be teenage kids, trying to make an extra buck to go to the movies, or the mall, and to learn what working is all about. You're NOT supposed to be able to support your family there. It is NOT skilled labour, and by valuing fast food employees higher than some SKILLED trades, you devalue those people, and their educations. So get real. They DON'T deserve it. They're whiny twats.

 

 

 

 

Here's a personal story.

 

When I started in tech, not that long ago, my first contract job paid $13 dollars an hour.

 

That was to build, image and support desktop in a government rollout done by HP Enterprise Services (Hewlett-Packards corporation support div)

 

So what you're saying, is that flipping burgers, is more important, and a harder task, that deserves a higher wage than an actual job, that requires thinking, and skills, and an education that cost a lot more than free.

 

Oh yeah, I was able to live off of that btw. I got fatter in fact, I was eating so well. But I never expected I could support a family on it, which made me work harder, so I could move up in the world. Also, it taught me how to work in a professional environment; how to be on time; how to respond to upper management properly, and without cause for firing; and just generally what the real world was like. It was entry level. I never complained about getting $13 an hour, I was happy to get that much! Despite working 7pm-4am most nights, under desks, in corners and the moving of 100 machines a night back and forth, I liked the job. The conditions were horrible, but it was a character building experience.

 

I am extremely grateful to be where I am now, and I know how hard I worked.  People should not be rewarded for whining

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If minimum wage rose properly with cost of living, you'd most likely be earning over $20 an hour at your position.

 

The minimum wage is what is at stake here, and that WAS designed to give employees a living wage.

 

The problem is made worse since the minimum wages hasn't increased it stagnated other 'medium' level salaries, as there was no incentive to push those wages higher. It's more than minimum afterall. Which just proves the point that these companies will not do anything to increase worker conditions unless forced too.

Thats the thing though, historically yes minimum wage was supposed to be a living wage, also another factor $7.25 / hr will get you further where I am in Atlanta than in New York lets say. The retailer I worked for set their own wages which were higher than min was and offered cost of living wage adjustment. Like I said before it does come down to a societal shift though. A high school kid these days doesn't need $15 an hour, but that same job lets say at McDonalds, for someone who is working to raise a family will need that $15 / hr. 

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Mkay, so how about in businesses where they DON'T source all of their materials from China? Small business especially has such a low profit margin that they won't be able to handle the wage increase.There are many, many businesses that require minimum wage workers to even stay somewhat afloat. And if the wage increase were to happen (no one is that stupid though so it won't) they would be gone, and we get left with horrid customer service, and sub par products because everyone is fighting for every last dollar.  (I don't shop at Walmart by the way, so your article reference isn't relevant at all)

 

PS. When places are forced to increase wages, most of the time that means job losses. So, you go from making $11 an hour, to nothing. Can they thank you personally for that?

 

I feel sorry for people that never think of the actual issue, and just spout out what they read on news sites.

 

 

 

 

As to your second comment, the point of a lot of jobs is to build character, not just make a wage. Fast food is supposed to be teenage kids, trying to make an extra buck to go to the movies, or the mall, and to learn what working is all about. You're NOT supposed to be able to support your family there. It is NOT skilled labour, and by valuing fast food employees higher than some SKILLED trades, you devalue those people, and their educations. So get real. They DON'T deserve it. They're whiny twats.

 

 

 

 

Here's a personal story.

 

When I started in tech, not that long ago, my first contract job paid $13 dollars an hour.

 

That was to build, image and support desktop in a government rollout done by HP Enterprise Services (Hewlett-Packards corporation support div)

 

So what you're saying, is that flipping burgers, is more important, and a harder task, that deserves a higher wage than an actual job, that requires thinking, and skills, and an education that cost a lot more than free.

 

Oh yeah, I was able to live off of that btw. I got fatter in fact, I was eating so well

No, I am saying the majority of jobs are currently vastly underpaid due to a minimum wage that hasn't increased properly over time. The problem you have with minimum wage is a problem caused because it wasn't raised as time went on allowing companies that pay more than minimum wage to hold back their salaries too.

 

I am not valuing low skill workers more than high skill workers, I am trying to get the value of low skill workers, to where it was supposed to be.

 

Quit specifically targeting fast food employees people! All of the food service industry and all minimum wage workers are underpaid!

 

The walmart article shows how little everything would rise if people were paid more, that means across the board prices everywhere should raise at nearly the same level. A 1.1-1.5% increase in prices will not hurt anyone, especially as the raise in prices would come after a wage increase for the ones who would actually be affected.

 

 

Thats the thing though, historically yes minimum wage was supposed to be a living wage, also another factor $7.25 / hr will get you further where I am in Atlanta than in New York lets say. The retailer I worked for set their own wages which were higher than min was and offered cost of living wage adjustment. Like I said before it does come down to a societal shift though. A high school kid these days doesn't need $15 an hour, but that same job lets say at McDonalds, for someone who is working to raise a family will need that $15 / hr. 

 

These jobs aren't mainly staffed by teens in school, most are adults, this stereotype is what is holding back any logical legislation. I mean ask yourself this, who works there during school hours? During night shift after curfews?

 

Yes, income inequality is also affected by many factors. The federal minimum should be a baseline that all states follow, while states where cost of living is higher should raise it beyond the federal national limit, but they won't as there is no incentive to. This is the problem as we have to set the bar to help everyone on the low end equally. Those in these areas where the cost of living is higher can and should offer more, but don't usually due to greed. No one is pushing them to do so, and even when pushed, they take the easy way out by restaffing.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/nyregion/older-workers-are-increasingly-entering-fast-food-industry.html

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No, I am saying the majority of jobs are currently vastly underpaid due to a minimum wage that hasn't increased properly over time. The problem you have with minimum wage is a problem caused because it wasn't raised as time went on allowing companies that pay more than minimum wage to hold back their salaries too.

 

I am not valuing low skill workers more than high skill workers, I am trying to get the value of low skill workers, to where it was supposed to be.

 

Quit specifically targeting fast food employees people! All of the food service industry and all minimum wage workers are underpaid!

 

The walmart article shows how little everything would rise if people were paid more, that means across the board prices everywhere should raise at nearly the same level. A 1.1-1.5% increase in prices will not hurt anyone, especially as the raise in prices would come after a wage increase for the ones who would actually be affected.

 

 

 

Food service workers are paid what the business owner can afford. Perhaps there needs to be some work done in some businesses, but it's not at all an across the board thing. I know quite a number of people (perhaps it's different in Canada, the whole "I'm not going to pay you because of tips thing" is ########) who make $13 an hour to start, in GOOD restaurants that see a lot of business. The ones that don't work for owners that CAN'T afford to increase wages because they would have NO profit, which means NO business and NO jobs.

 

 

 

From your article:

 

"Because the average customer spends $1,200 per year, that would amount to about $12 annually. "

 
$100 a month? I'm sorry what? Who exactly cooks most nights, and only spends $100 a month on groceries and other things, if they shop at Walmart exclusively? That's an average btw, so 50% spend less per month. And if they are only spending $100 a month on groceries/other stuff, then why can't they live? What are they doing with the rest of their salary?

I can't live on $100 worth of food a month, more like $100 a week. And I'm living perfectly sound. Then again, I have an education, and actually put in some effort to bettering myself, not just waiting for handouts.

 
And for those of you who say "they can't afford to cook so they go out to McDonalds" you're wrong. It costs significantly less to buy food from the store and cook, than it does to go out every night.
 
 
I hold the same view as the Walmart spokesperson from your article
 
"A Wal-Mart spokesperson said that anyone who thought price increases would be small had "limited understanding of how a business operates."
 

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Food service workers are paid what the business owner can afford. Perhaps there needs to be some work done in some businesses, but it's not at all an across the board thing. I know quite a number of people (perhaps it's different in Canada, the whole "I'm not going to pay you because of tips thing" is ########) who make $13 an hour to start, in GOOD restaurants that see a lot of business. The ones that don't work for owners that CAN'T afford to increase wages because they would have NO profit, which means NO business and NO jobs.

 

 

 

From your article:

 

"Because the average customer spends $1,200 per year, that would amount to about $12 annually. "

 
$100 a month? I'm sorry what? Who exactly cooks most nights, and only spends $100 a month on groceries and other things, if they shop at Walmart exclusively? That's an average btw, so 50% spend less per month. And if they are only spending $100 a month on groceries/other stuff, then why can't they live? What are they doing with the rest of their salary?

I can't live on $100 worth of food a month, more like $100 a week. And I'm living perfectly sound. Then again, I have an education, and actually put in some effort to bettering myself, not just waiting for handouts.

 
And for those of you who say "they can't afford to cook so they go out to McDonalds" you're wrong. It costs significantly less to buy food from the store and cook, than it does to go out every night.
 
 
I hold the same view as the Walmart spokesperson from your article
 
"A Wal-Mart spokesperson said that anyone who thought price increases would be small had "limited understanding of how a business operates."
 

 

If the minimum wage was to match the NATIONAL cost of living as it did 30 years ago, it has to be $15. That also means 30 years ago, companies somehow worked with these margins. If they worked with these margins before, they can do it again. I don't see how you can be ignoring this fact. Even if some struggle, it will only be because of bad business practices brought on by a stagnant minimum wage.

 

No, 50% do not make less, thats not how averages work, and what a way to twist your data. It could be that most transactions are for single items, while most people who do go grocery shopping spend vastly more. Think of it this way, how many do people do you see in the 15 items or less line, usually more than in the full lines of full shopping carts. One $350 sales averaged against 20 sub $20 sales. ANYWAY, We do not know the specifics so arguing them is pointless.

 

What we do get from this is that for every $100 spent, you are going to spend $1.20 more. Which again, is no loss, especially after those most  affected will get a raise.

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What we do get from this is that for every $100 spent, you are going to spend $1.20 more. Which again, is no loss, especially after those most affected will get a raise.

That ISN'T how economics work, especially at smaller businesses.

Large companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google etc etc etc can all easily afford to absorb the cost of a wage increase. Most small businesses (you'll find a LOT of fast food places are franchises) just simply cannot. There are tons of small business owners that take home a #### paycheck every month because the cost of the business and employees eats up most of their money.

THEN you have the fact that prices for items are partly based on how much the market can bear that price. Too expensive and most people wouldn't be able to afford it, too cheap you won't be making money. Corporations exist to make money, not to make you happy. If you raise the minimum wage to $15, most corporations will just go "oh well since people now have more money to spend, our products will be more expensive." Simply because the market can now bear that price increase. Now the people who were making $15 before, and will still be making $15 after, get the short end of the stick.

All that's going to happen is the rich will get richer, the poorer will stay in the same position they were and the middle class will get even more screwed.

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I never said restaurant places did I? I think the whole "let me pay you $2 an hour because of tips" to be despicable.

I was talking specifically about fast food.

I hate the whole tipping thing in general because these workers should be getting paid a fair wage but they don't. I really wish we could end tipping here in the USA.

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If people were smarter with their money and what they do in their lives, this wouldnt be a problem.  Cost of living increases, yes and wages should be increased a little to compensate. But not doubled.  Sorry, you want something better then work for it like the rest of us.  Seems people want companies and others to bail them out of their mistakes.  And lets say they are given $15 an hour for making fries...if they dont manage their money properly and continue to make bad life decisions, then they will be right back where they started and then asking for $20 an hour.

 

I have lived off of minimum wage before for a few years.  I had CC bill, rent, normal utility bills, 2 car payments, 2 insurance payments....and a few other things.  I payed everything on time and had food to eat.  I had to cancel cable TV, reduce internet speed, can cut off of few other frills but that is what you have to do when things are tight.  I have sisters who are single parents and never had any issues either.

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That ISN'T how economics work, especially at smaller businesses.

Large companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google etc etc etc can all easily afford to absorb the cost of a wage increase. Most small businesses (you'll find a LOT of fast food places are franchises) just simply cannot. There are tons of small business owners that take home a #### paycheck every month because the cost of the business and employees eats up most of their money.

THEN you have the fact that prices for items are partly based on how much the market can bear that price. Too expensive and most people wouldn't be able to afford it, too cheap you won't be making money. Corporations exist to make money, not to make you happy. If you raise the minimum wage to $15, most corporations will just go "oh well since people now have more money to spend, our products will be more expensive." Simply because the market can now bear that price increase. Now the people who were making $15 before, and will still be making $15 after, get the short end of the stick.

All that's going to happen is the rich will get richer, the poorer will stay in the same position they were and the middle class will get even more screwed.

You do realise that statistic was with putting 100% of the costs of increased labor toward the customers. That means without absorbing it, they just raised the prices to compensate and life goes on. Supply, demand and quality is more of what is going to base prices on, if people are already complaining about mcdonalds prices, it's not because of their income, it's the quality, if the price goes up, there will be less sales, they won't further increase the price to compensate for those lost sales and they will continue to lose sales each time they do.

 

I hate the whole tipping thing in general because these workers should be getting paid a fair wage but they don't. I really wish we could end tipping here in the USA.

It's demeaning. Tips should be extra for for excellent service, not the bulk of income, while the business owner pays them around $60 a week after taxes.

 

If people were smarter with their money and what they do in their lives, this wouldnt be a problem.  Cost of living increases, yes and wages should be increased a little to compensate. But not doubled.  Sorry, you want something better then work for it like the rest of us.  Seems people want companies and others to bail them out of their mistakes.  And lets say they are given $15 an hour for making fries...if they dont manage their money properly and continue to make bad life decisions, then they will be right back where they started and then asking for $20 an hour.

 

I have lived off of minimum wage before for a few years.  I had CC bill, rent, normal utility bills, 2 car payments, 2 insurance payments....and a few other things.  I payed everything on time and had food to eat.  I had to cancel cable TV, reduce internet speed, can cut off of few other frills but that is what you have to do when things are tight.  I have sisters who are single parents and never had any issues either.

It's only being doubled as minimum wage hasn't risen to properly cover cost of living, inflation, etc. WE ARE NOT ONLY TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE FAST FOOD INDUSTRY, THIS IS EVERY PERSON MAKING BELOW A LIVING WAGE. The article may be directly dealing with a strike a certain group of minimum wage workers are planning, but the problem is not just about their positions. Also personal stories are pointless, as where you most likely were earning minimum wages the cost of living was lower than the national average, try doing that in new york or where millions of people are affected by this, the result won't be the same for the majority of people.

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If the minimum wage was to match the NATIONAL cost of living as it did 30 years ago, it has to be $15. That also means 30 years ago, companies somehow worked with these margins. If they worked with these margins before, they can do it again. I don't see how you can be ignoring this fact. Even if some struggle, it will only be because of bad business practices brought on by a stagnant minimum wage.

 

No, 50% do not make less, thats not how averages work, and what a way to twist your data. It could be that most transactions are for single items, while most people who do go grocery shopping spend vastly more. Think of it this way, how many do people do you see in the 15 items or less line, usually more than in the full lines of full shopping carts. One $350 sales averaged against 20 sub $20 sales. ANYWAY, We do not know the specifics so arguing them is pointless.

 

What we do get from this is that for every $100 spent, you are going to spend $1.20 more. Which again, is no loss, especially after those most  affected will get a raise.

 

 

Those "most affected". Like the ones that have no drive, no ambition to better themselves and live by asking everyone else for handouts because "they deserve it". I don't accept that. And I won't accept even a penny increase in costs to offset this ludicrous assumption that these people deserve more money "just because". They deserve to live by the choices they make in life.

 

And in your example of how averages work, you made my point even better than I did. More people are spending less than $100 a month, which is in my mind near impossible to live off of. Again, Walmart isn't exactly the best example, due to their sourcing of goods, and how they practice "business". Try that again with a small business

 

 

 

And we don't know the specifics. What we do know is that more jobs are being lost because of this incessant babbling. (see the line in your article that points out Walmart won't be opening anymore stores in DC because of this, and I'm sure others will follow suit.)

 

Which is better, a job? Or no job?

 

 

 

Oh, and the articles source, the paper from Berkley... Didn't use actual data, they used estimates, or what we like to call "made up numbers"

 

"

In order to estimate the effect of a $12 per hour minimum wage, one needs the distribution of wages
for Walmart hourly workers. Despite multiple request, Walmart officials were not able to provide
information on the wages beyond what can be found on their website."

 

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You do realise that statistic was with putting 100% of the costs of increased labor toward the customers. That means without absorbing it, they just raised the prices to compensate and life goes on.

But that's not all. Prices for goods are partly based on how much the market is willing to bear. If people have more money, they can bear the higher cost. And that's not looking at the entire supply chain either. You're just looking at the final point. What about the higher wages for the farmer? Or the distribution center? Or any of the people / companies that are in between the farm and WalMart?

And that's also only looking at large companies that can absorb some of the costs. There are tons of small businesses that simply cannot.

Looking at it purely on the point of "oh well the price will only be $1.20 more" isn't accurate in any way, shape, or form.

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Also personal stories are pointless, as where you most likely were earning minimum wages the cost of living was lower than the national average, try doing that in new york or where millions of people are affected by this, the result won't be the same for the majority of people.

 

Here's a thought: Move to a place where the cost of living is less. People do it all the time. Good God, NYC is one of the worst places to be for a lower-skilled worker, unless a person is willing to have roommates and be prepared to make other sacrifices. Of course, making sacrifices is what our grandparents used to call an "average day". This country has gotten so spoiled it's a joke. We used to be a can-do nation where folks busted their butts to make it, but now it's all gimme gimme.

 

Listen Sierra, you've been making interesting points, but in the end, we're all products of the choices we've made in life. If the best someone can do is get a job at a fast-food restaurant or a day labor place such as Labor Ready, well then somewhere along the way they chose not to do the things that would have given them a more valuable skill set.

 

I actually think they should do away with a minimum wage altogether. I don't believe in artificial floors and in a global economy, the US is losing more and more jobs every day. Let the market determine it. If folks are willing to accept a given wage upon being hired, then so be it. People need to get over their pollyannish view of the world. You either fight for what you want or you are squashed like a bug.

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Here's a thought: Move to a place where the cost of living is less.

 

That's too revolutionary.

 

These people just want to be pandered too, just like OWS. Leave them alone, and they'll go away when it gets cold.

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I actually think they should do away with a minimum wage altogether. I don't believe in artificial floors and in a global economy, the US is losing more and more jobs every day.

 

Yep lets go back to slave labor, that's the ticket for boosting the US economy...  US is losing more jobs everyday because higher taxes, healthcare and that third world countries are paying people sub-par wages to keep them in poverty so they have no choice to work at these places..

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Those "most affected". Like the ones that have no drive, no ambition to better themselves and live by asking everyone else for handouts because "they deserve it". I don't accept that. And I won't accept even a penny increase in costs to offset this ludicrous assumption that these people deserve more money "just because". They deserve to live by the choices they make in life.

 

And in your example of how averages work, you made my point even better than I did. More people are spending less than $100 a month, which is in my mind near impossible to live off of. Again, Walmart isn't exactly the best example, due to their sourcing of goods, and how they practice "business". Try that again with a small business

 

 

 

And we don't know the specifics. What we do know is that more jobs are being lost because of this incessant babbling. (see the line in your article that points out Walmart won't be opening anymore stores in DC because of this, and I'm sure others will follow suit.)

 

Which is better, a job? Or no job?

 

 

 

Oh, and the articles source, the paper from Berkley... Didn't use actual data, they used estimates, or what we like to call "made up numbers"

Way to assume that just because they work for minimum wage these people have no drive. Let me put it this way, teens aren't the only ones who work at these jobs, hard working adults work at these jobs too. It is a position to be filled. There is always someone who will be able to replace anyone, in any field, at any position. The point is that this is still work, and the work is valued less than it was 30 years ago instead of equal. This isn't a handout, it is giving the people who work at the lowest wage possible which is lower than the value of what it was 30 years ago! 30 years ago gas was below a dollar! Now it's 4 times higher, asking for the minimum wage to be put at the level it was 30 years ago isn't giving them extra, it's giving them what they should of been earning as of 30 years ago.

 

The point I was making is that the majority of these sales aren't full on groceries. Not that people spend less on groceries.

 

Jobs won't stop existing just because the wage goes up, sure certain companies will fire people, but why were they hired in the first place them if they weren't needed? These are the questions you should be asking. We are going based on a 1.1-1.5% increase in costs DUE TO WAGES. 

 

The sourcing of goods is irrelevant in the walmart equation as it doesn't affect anything before or after wage increases, Wal-mart's prices goes up, but not their costs. Now if for example local company A has to pay more because because their costs went up, they will just raise their prices more to compensate, assuming everything works it way up at the end of the day were still looking at no more than 3% increase in prices. Even then it doesn't matter if everything goes up 10% as the amount being earned by the lowest earners is going to jump DOUBLE. Prices would literally have to raise OVER 100% to make the situation WORSE. Since those type of price increases are completely unrealistic this is just seeming more and more likely as a benefit to everyone who earn the minimum.

 

I am willing to bet after $15 becomes the federal minimum wage, walmart will have no problem opening more store in DC.

 

Again, not just because, these positions have been consistently making less and less for the last 30 years, the amount may be the same, but it's value is not.

 

But that's not all. Prices for goods are partly based on how much the market is willing to bear. If people have more money, they can bear the higher cost. And that's not looking at the entire supply chain either. You're just looking at the final point. What about the higher wages for the farmer? Or the distribution center? Or any of the people / companies that are in between the farm and WalMart?

And that's also only looking at large companies that can absorb some of the costs. There are tons of small businesses that simply cannot.

Looking at it purely on the point of "oh well the price will only be $1.20 more" isn't accurate in any way, shape, or form.

I stated it was going to be 1.1 - 1.5% more, assuming no costs. Now again if you add the added costs down the line you can assume the maximum increase would be just enough to cover the increase of cost correct? So an additional 1.1 - 1.5% would be realworld increases of 2.2% to 3% of prices across the board.

 

But thats assuming everyones prices/costs would be raised, according to statistics it's closer to 4.7% of hourly earners that earn minimum wage or less. The devastation of giving 4% of workers what they are supposed to earn (if we want to match the rate they earned 30 years ago) is no where nearly as bad as you are trying to make it out to be.

 

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012.htm

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