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Why is the PS4 outselling the Xbox One? Microsoft weighs in

xbox one kinect microsoft yusuf mehdi ps4 sony sales xbox 360 ps3

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#91 trooper11

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 23:22

I don't intend to come off as rude and I apologize if I did.
We are talking similar things but the hardware repercussions are the same. The idea of a hypervisor being at the core is truly unique and innovative but it is something that was clearly rushed out the door with very very little thought to short term ramifications. I done believe Microsoft will long term resolve those items but the trade offs they made early in for this couldnend up haunting them long after its resolved

Here's to a competitive console generation :-) Cheers


I can't help but wonder why you ignored the point about WinRT. You made a point to say its lack of adoption elsewhere was a minus for using it with the X1. I think I made a solid case for why its useful in this case.

You instead chose to focus solely on Hyper-V and sharing the technical details of how it all works. While I'm glad to see someone sticking to the facts of how it all works, your conclusion really didn't differ from mine. You took all of the time just to end up saying the same thing.

There are short term issues that could lead to long term rewards. MS has been aggressively pushing to take care of the short term issues in order to reach that long term reward as quickly as possible. The sooner they do that, the better. We will have to wait and see if they make it. I still believe it was a good choice in the long run. In a perfect world, sure, don't release it until its farther along. Unfortunately, MS wasn't given that perfect world where they could dictate when the next generation of consoles began. Sony was on a rush timeline for release as well and it showed in all the sacrifices feature wise they made to hit their release date.

So the X1 had to come out before MS was probably ready to release it, but it could have been worse and MS is still in the game. With the right choices, they can be quite successful this generation.


#92 bithush

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 23:30

So the X1 had to come out before MS was probably ready to release it, but it could have been worse and MS is still in the game. With the right choices, they can be quite successful this generation.

 

I wonder if MS had held off on releasing the X1 until it was ready, say go for a Christmas 2014 release, then could they have avoided all of this crap? They also could have put out a little bit of a more powerful console for the same price and just let Sony take the first year. I am not an analyst so I can't give you a valid answer and I don't many really can but I don't think waiting would have been all that helpful personally. It is a shame that the early adopters who didn't really want a Kinect got stuck with it especially as there have been no real must have next gen games out yet. Oh well that is the price of the early adopter I guess!



#93 Vigilant

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 04:51

I wonder if MS had held off on releasing the X1 until it was ready, say go for a Christmas 2014 release, then could they have avoided all of this crap? They also could have put out a little bit of a more powerful console for the same price and just let Sony take the first year. I am not an analyst so I can't give you a valid answer and I don't many really can but I don't think waiting would have been all that helpful personally. It is a shame that the early adopters who didn't really want a Kinect got stuck with it especially as there have been no real must have next gen games out yet. Oh well that is the price of the early adopter I guess!


I don't think it would have worked out. Consoles are cyclical releases, and whoever develops the most momentum early on keeps it with developer loyalty usually until the end of that cycle.

It seems to me like the major issues have more to do with misaligned priorities from the start of the development. If you look back through the leaked information Microsoft had different thoughts on the generation and it shows.

They have done an excellent job of recovering. I think they will be able to recover far quicker then the PS3 did with their huge mess up on pricing.

Kinetic will almost certainly get downplayed for the rest of the year and become more prominent thing going into next year once the price of the attachment build it could possibly sold with the bundle at lower cost. Quality of games need to be there thought to justify it

#94 Showan

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:14

I wonder if MS had held off on releasing the X1 until it was ready, say go for a Christmas 2014 release, then could they have avoided all of this crap? They also could have put out a little bit of a more powerful console for the same price and just let Sony take the first year. I am not an analyst so I can't give you a valid answer and I don't many really can but I don't think waiting would have been all that helpful personally. It is a shame that the early adopters who didn't really want a Kinect got stuck with it especially as there have been no real must have next gen games out yet. Oh well that is the price of the early adopter I guess!


There should only be 1 sku for Xbox One, and that's Xbox One w/Kinect. Rather people wanted Kinect or not, Microsoft should have kept it bundled in. The problem is the $500 entry price. If Microsoft would have went $399, nobody would complain about Kinect (even if they hate it). $500 is a steep price (and countries like South America have even crazier price points) for entry, for most people the world over, Microsoft should have realized that, and had a better price point prepared.

#95 Ambroos

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:16

Sony is pretty much finished in TVs (just rebranded Samsung panels) and their phones aren't doing exactly great. They don't have a "quality brand" label in PCs because of ###### low quality laptops with crapware bundled on them.

 

I feel the supply has caught up with PS4's demand at least in the region around Boston. It wasn't sold out anywhere the last time I checked.

 

Eh, in the US they might not be doing well, but Sony is still regarded as a top quality TV brand over here and in the rest of the world. They don't use Samsung panels anymore, almost all TV's released in 2013 and 2014 use AUO panels, with some from Sharp and some from Toshiba. They're selling extremely well here.

 

Their phones, again, are selling extremely well in Europe and Asia. Year-on-year growth in sales has been over 20% for the last two years, which is a significant number.

 

Vaio's were also regarded as a quality brand here (again, because they are). The Vaio Z series was discontinued in 2012 but was absolutely amazing engineering-wise. The Vaio Pro 13" was widely reviewed as the single best Windows ultrabook there was. But they couldn't turn a profit so sold off the Vaio branch.

 

The world is much bigger than the US, and Sony is much (much) bigger than TV's, laptops, phones and consoles too. Sony Music is the second-largest record label in the world, and Sony Pictures isn't exactly a small player either (with recently increasingly popular TV series too, like Breaking Bad for example).

 

Sony is probably also the largest image sensor manufacturer there is. Most Samsung phones, all iPhones since the iPhone 4S, many other smartphone cameras, most of Nikon's top-end cameras, ... All Sony sensors. And their own cameras are doing incredibly well too and they're pretty much widely accepted to be the single most innovative camera company there is. The releases they've had the past year have introduced whole new form factors and quality standards never seen before.

 

And then there's the professional market. Sony's cameras are used in tons of movies, a gigantic amount of broadcasters use Sony stuff (from cameras to monitors).

 

Basically, they're not going to go away because their TV's are a bit less popular in the US.



#96 MindTrickz

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 10:21

 

 
"It's hard to really assess the gap in sales," Mehdi said. "[Sony is] in many more markets right now than we are. They're in 40+ markets, we're in 13." The PS4 won't have a such a dramatic regional availability advantage for much longer, as the Xbox One will be released in Japan and 25 other regions in September.

 

Mehdi might have had a point if Sony was not also outselling Microsoft in those 13 markets.

 

 

Another reason why the Xbox One has fallen behind the PS4 in terms of sales so far is because, according to Mehdi, Xbox 360 owners enjoy their systems more than PlayStation 3 owners do, so they are less inclined to upgrade.
 
"People have been more satisfied with the Xbox 360 than the PS3, so in that respect people have less of a need to upgrade in the short-term due to regular updates for the Xbox 360," Mehdi said. "We could point to any number of things."

 

This part is just laughable. Whatever helps you sleep at night, Mehdi.

 

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#97 Emn1ty

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 20:02

Eh, in the US they might not be doing well, but Sony is still regarded as a top quality TV brand over here and in the rest of the world. They don't use Samsung panels anymore, almost all TV's released in 2013 and 2014 use AUO panels, with some from Sharp and some from Toshiba. They're selling extremely well here.

 

Their phones, again, are selling extremely well in Europe and Asia. Year-on-year growth in sales has been over 20% for the last two years, which is a significant number.

 

Vaio's were also regarded as a quality brand here (again, because they are). The Vaio Z series was discontinued in 2012 but was absolutely amazing engineering-wise. The Vaio Pro 13" was widely reviewed as the single best Windows ultrabook there was. But they couldn't turn a profit so sold off the Vaio branch.

 

The world is much bigger than the US, and Sony is much (much) bigger than TV's, laptops, phones and consoles too. Sony Music is the second-largest record label in the world, and Sony Pictures isn't exactly a small player either (with recently increasingly popular TV series too, like Breaking Bad for example).

 

Sony is probably also the largest image sensor manufacturer there is. Most Samsung phones, all iPhones since the iPhone 4S, many other smartphone cameras, most of Nikon's top-end cameras, ... All Sony sensors. And their own cameras are doing incredibly well too and they're pretty much widely accepted to be the single most innovative camera company there is. The releases they've had the past year have introduced whole new form factors and quality standards never seen before.

 

And then there's the professional market. Sony's cameras are used in tons of movies, a gigantic amount of broadcasters use Sony stuff (from cameras to monitors).

 

Basically, they're not going to go away because their TV's are a bit less popular in the US.

 

And yet Sony themselves are demonstrating losses in many markets, TV's and especially computers (seeing as they sold off their PC division). A lot of the reasons behind their failing market is because of exactly what you've stated. They no longer make their own panels and yet still charge premiums for the product, and their computers were so filled with proprietary hardware and software that people got frustrated with them. Sony is hurting, there's no denying that no matter how you try to spin it. 



#98 Vigilant

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 01:03

And yet Sony themselves are demonstrating losses in many markets, TV's and especially computers (seeing as they sold off their PC division). A lot of the reasons behind their failing market is because of exactly what you've stated. They no longer make their own panels and yet still charge premiums for the product, and their computers were so filled with proprietary hardware and software that people got frustrated with them. Sony is hurting, there's no denying that no matter how you try to spin it. 

 

I wish I could agree with you.

 

Sony has always been at it's best when it does random weird things. They lost their way for a few years, but they are definitely experimenting all over again.

 

Sony is selling superior hardware then Microsoft. There is no spinning that. There are literal numbers out there that Microsoft is trying to spin to the contrary. But Sony developed superior hardware. Period.

 

Microsoft makes good things. But Microsoft is ver very much far from a consistent company. I'm sorry but it's the truth. Microsoft, like Sony performs best when under very very strong market pressure. They both are right now. Sony has the lead right now. 7 million consoles is 2 million consoles more then 5 million. There isn't much spinning that. Microsoft by their own former CEO's admission losses a cycle in technology and is now putting other mobile platforms ahead of their own. Again, look at what they are doing.

 

Both companies have messed up. Substantially. Period.

 

If you can't look at these things and see that then there isn't much room to consider objectivity.

 

Microsoft put on a really good E3. Do you know why they did? Because they are under deep pressure. On all fronts. Last year they literally mailed it in. So far in fact that they have done almost a complete reversal on most of their initiatives.

 

Period.

 

Microsoft has a lot of room to grow. But they are on the right track right now.



#99 Emn1ty

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:28

I wish I could agree with you.

Sony has always been at it's best when it does random weird things. They lost their way for a few years, but they are definitely experimenting all over again.

Sony is selling superior hardware then Microsoft. There is no spinning that. There are literal numbers out there that Microsoft is trying to spin to the contrary. But Sony developed superior hardware. Period.

Microsoft makes good things. But Microsoft is ver very much far from a consistent company. I'm sorry but it's the truth. Microsoft, like Sony performs best when under very very strong market pressure. They both are right now. Sony has the lead right now. 7 million consoles is 2 million consoles more then 5 million. There isn't much spinning that. Microsoft by their own former CEO's admission losses a cycle in technology and is now putting other mobile platforms ahead of their own. Again, look at what they are doing.

Both companies have messed up. Substantially. Period.

If you can't look at these things and see that then there isn't much room to consider objectivity.

Microsoft put on a really good E3. Do you know why they did? Because they are under deep pressure. On all fronts. Last year they literally mailed it in. So far in fact that they have done almost a complete reversal on most of their initiatives.

Period.

Microsoft has a lot of room to grow. But they are on the right track right now.


You completely ignored the fact that Sony themselves are posting losses. Their console may be winning, but that doesn't magically make their dead PC branch and dying television brand better. And it's not surprising don't make better hardware. Microsoft isn't a hardware company. And yet anyone who knows anything about hardware and software will tell you raw numbers mean nothing.

If you think Microsoft is hurting, you should realize just with windows 8 alone they have around 175 million users. I don't know where they are "hurting" as much as Sony is. They are expanding, not shrinking.

I don't know about you, but I'm fairly objective here.

#100 Vigilant

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 02:41

You completely ignored the fact that Sony themselves are posting losses. Their console may be winning, but that doesn't magically make their dead PC branch and dying television brand better. And it's not surprising don't make better hardware. Microsoft isn't a hardware company. And yet anyone who knows anything about hardware and software will tell you raw numbers mean nothing.

If you think Microsoft is hurting, you should realize just with windows 8 alone they have around 175 million users. I don't know where they are "hurting" as much as Sony is. They are expanding, not shrinking.

I don't know about you, but I'm fairly objective here.


Wow... Just wow you drank a ton of kool aid.

If Microsoft was doing so well then they wouldn't have had so many reorgs in the past few years including letting go their CEO and the vp in charge of all of the Xbox One decisions that have mostly been reversed.

It's not really worth arguing, since you don't seem to be willing to take on a discussion on actual merits.

But that's fine.

Cheers to competition.

#101 Emn1ty

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 05:41

Wow... Just wow you drank a ton of kool aid.

If Microsoft was doing so well then they wouldn't have had so many reorgs in the past few years including letting go their CEO and the vp in charge of all of the Xbox One decisions that have mostly been reversed.

It's not really worth arguing, since you don't seem to be willing to take on a discussion on actual merits.

But that's fine.

Cheers to competition.

 

You mistake the shortcomings of a single devision with the status of the entire company. XBox does not equate to Microsoft no more than Playstation equates to Sony.



#102 BajiRav

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:44

Wow... Just wow you drank a ton of kool aid.

If Microsoft was doing so well then they wouldn't have had so many reorgs in the past few years including letting go their CEO and the vp in charge of all of the Xbox One decisions that have mostly been reversed.

It's not really worth arguing, since you don't seem to be willing to take on a discussion on actual merits.

But that's fine.

Cheers to competition.

huh! My company has had many reorgs over my tenure here. That doesn't tell you anything about the health of the company. :/