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Nick H.

sudan Sudan Woman Faces Death for Apostasy

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They can not state they are Muslim as it would not be true, its just people associating skin colour and names (when they are given).  Filling in the blanks if you will.

its obvious that its not westerner who did it, the news did say african, pakistani and 'asian',

and in other thread pakistani religious authority said banning child marriage are something 'that not islamic' ask Mazhar, he refuse to comment about it.

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Not really, to simplify apostasy its "do as we say or we kill you", When its looked at like that you see its not different to any other nut-case cults/religions out there.  

 

 

You mean not different besides that fact it is a punishment that is actually being carried out in the Islamic world? You're entirely correct to say that any religion that could get away with this would, but apostasy isn't a crime anywhere in the West, as far as I know.

 

This is a religious punishment, carried out in the Islamic world by religious wackos who think they are doing God's will. All the false equivalency and political correctness in the world won't change that.

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Why would you bother? You asked answers from me, so I will open the thread with you as the audience and I will not entertain others much.

 

Umm, no... I didn't. I never asked for a damn thing from you. Why would I bother? I already know you're opinions of things and I have nothing but contempt for you and those opinions.

 

YOU asked for examples of women victims of rape in Islam being whipped (and other things too), I provided.

Not wanting to continue the rape theme but just wanted to point out out that all those sites are well known anti-Islamic & anti-immigrant sites.  Just saying.

 

That doesn't automatically make them wrong, though.

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Umm, no... I didn't. I never asked for a damn thing from you. Why would I bother? I already know you're opinions of things and I have nothing but contempt for you and those opinions.

 

YOU asked for examples of women victims of rape in Islam being whipped (and other things too), I provided.

 

Have you? I clicked on the first link on Google yesterday which does not say about "woman punished because she was raped":

 

This is the link:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/06/indonesian-woman-allegedly-gang-raped-punishment-caning

 

Now show me where it says that point.

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We're getting WAY off topic now so a mod is bound to close this soon, so here's my final response to you as. quite frankly, I don't like talking to extremists.  In fact, I'd rather stick my head in a blender.

 

OK, so let's look at that link, shall we?

 

Here's the first paragraph.

 

"An Indonesian woman who was allegedly gang-raped as a punishment for sleeping with a married man may still be caned for the affair under the Islamic sharia laws of Aceh province, an official has said."

 

OK, so assuming she DID have an affair, firstly, who's business is that other than hers and her husbands?  Secondly, do you really believe that her being GANG RAPED is appropriate punishment (assuming punishment is even warranted by anyone other than her husband, which it isn't), and thirdly, now she's going to be caned (whipped)?

 

So let's see. She supposedly had an affair, then she was gang raped for it by a bunch of animals (oh, and had sewage poured over her too), and now she's going to be whipped by another bunch of animals.

 

And you think this is OK?

 

Also, you're cherry picking.  I gave you a generic list of LOTS of cases of women victims being whipped for being victims, and you selectively pick one that you think is OK (HA!).  If you're honest, you'll look at the others too, but I don't expect you to do so because honest is the last thing you'll ever be when it comes to criticism of your religion.

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I dont know whats worse, the ones commiting the horrible acts, or the islamic apologists, the ones that repeatedly spew "islam is a religion of peace"

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[Thread cleaned]

 

Please stay on topic. This is a news post.

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This is a flaw inherent in Abrahamic religions at best and religion as a whole at worst...

 

I don't think we should be pointing fingers at Islam alone, but at religion in general. The debate we should be having is about the role of religion and its tendency to cause so much undo suffering around the world.

Many religions don't even have the concept of apostasy... If you want to make the criticism so general that it can address all religions I don't think you'd have anything meaningful to say about this particular case. Treating apostasy as a crime, especially one punishable by death, is quite specific to Islam. And that's because it's very explicit in the Qur'an and Islam treats the Qur'an like a book composed word-for-word by God. This has always been and still is the majority view in the Islamic world. Today, every country that treats apostasy as a crime is an Islamic country.

 

20 countries across the globe prohibited its citizens from apostasy; in these countries, it is a criminal offense to abandon one's faith to become atheist, or convert to another religion. All 20 of these countries were majority Islamic nations (...)

 

Furthermore, across the globe, no country with Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, agnostic or atheist majority had any criminal or civil laws forbidding or encouraging apostasy, or had laws restricting an individual's right to convert from one religion to another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Countries

So I vehemently disagree with the idea that this is common to all Abrahamic religions, let alone all religions.

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Christian cults stick to just shunning them from family, friends and everyone they know or they get shunned to... And a lot of them even then continue to try to force them back to the cult so they can keep brainwashing them...

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and then all of the sudan....

 

(Y) :laugh:

 

 

Christian cults stick to just shunning them from family, friends and everyone they know or they get shunned to... And a lot of them even then continue to try to force them back to the cult so they can keep brainwashing them...

 

Reminds me a lot of the Christians (not cults, but normal people) back home in Macedonia. If you don't agree with them, you're the devil himself. And they would keep trying to impose their crap upon you.

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excommunication for apostasy are quite different to death penalty for apostasy ...

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They don't care about the things in their countries, look at the rape stats and suicidal rates in Europe and US. Every 2 minues, a single american is raped and the rapist will not go to jail, heck the police will not be reported in most cases. This is the civilised society!

 

The stats which I quoted shows that 60% are not reported, what you are gonna say about that?

 

 

 

Im going to quote myself from the other thread where you asked about this and ignored the answer. 

 

 

Many go unreported because the victim is scared and/or ashamed for a number of reasons, almost always personal. It's not like the rapist is going to report themselves. So it comes down to the victim. So if it's never reported, then yes the rapist is obviously going to be walking around free. 

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Under reporting is also a much bigger issue in Muslim sharia law countries where the woman gets stoned for reporting her rape. talk about 99.9% non reported cases.

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There are too many people in this thread that know nothing about Sharia Law and how it is enforced or Islam in general yet they feel compelled to enlighten the rest of us. 

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That woman was stupid to convert herself to the Christians without leaving that country. Its like bombing a building and then going to shop to the nearby market store.

Yeah.. Islam..

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There are too many people in this thread that know nothing about Sharia Law and how it is enforced or Islam in general yet they feel compelled to enlighten the rest of us. 

 

So is the court wrong to impose this punishment according to Sharia or not? If they are wrong then they must be ignorant of the rules of their own religion.

 

Considering there are no shortage of example of ex-Muslims suffering death threats because of their apostasy it seems a lot of people are "unenlightened".

 

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That woman was stupid to convert herself to the Christians without leaving that country. Its like bombing a building and then going to shop to the nearby market store.

Yeah.. Islam..

 

She didn't convert, she WAS christian, but the state didn't recognize her as a Christian. 

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So is the court wrong to impose this punishment according to Sharia or not? If they are wrong then they must be ignorant of the rules of their own religion.

 

Considering there are no shortage of example of ex-Muslims suffering death threats because of their apostasy it seems a lot of people are "unenlightened"

Sharia Law is quite diverse and is an interpretation or I should say many interpretations of the Quranic verses. Some follow the teachings that punishment should not carried out by humans for apostasy but it will be given in the afterlife.  Unfortunately majority follow the punishable on earth route.  Its not normally the ruling governments that carry out the threats or the executions, mostly its independent committees who feel they need to comply with their belief in the law. I know people here in the west really do not understand  Sharia but as its Islamic, hate it by default.   I'm no expert on the matter either by the way.  I don't believe death should be a punishment for any crime.

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All of that is irrelevant, any government who allows independent committees do dish out vigilante justice is corrupt at it's very root. And while you can have Islam without sharia, you can't have sharia without Islam.

I don't have a problem with Muslims, I have a problem with Islamic nations and people who use their religion to oppress, torture and hurt and control other people.

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Religion of Peace my ass. Seriously why is this such an issue they have to kill people for it? Either way I blame the husband more so than the cultist. I have seen bits and pieces of this on the news and such but have yet to see why the couple are living in 2 different countries. Can someone enlighten me on why the husband left her essentially to die?

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Not really, the cultures where religious violence, exclusion, and isolation are on the decline are also societies where religious participation is in decline. If you look at America, the Christian establishment is actively pushing for bizarre things such as rape victims being forced to raise the children of their attackers. There are pushes for "Christian" marriages to return to a period prior to women's suffrage and the wife should endure whatever crap her husband subjects her too; including abuse.

 

Of course, you're attempting to paint Islam as somehow worse than its siblings (Christianity and Judaism)... I don't see this to be the case... Religion in and of itself is flawed and has wreaked havoc on humanity for a very long time. It is a tool used by few to oppress many. Islam isn't any worse or better than Christianity, or any other religion...

 

The discussion really should be about the end of religion in its entirety. Not about who is worse today vs yesterday.

There is a huge different between Christianity and Islam. One evolved and the other one didn't. Seriously most Christians aren't going to just sit by and watch this kind of crap happen. Where as in the savage Islam nothing is done to stop crap like this from happening in the first place. I do agree that majority of it is the laws Christian countries have but again those were some what founded with Christianity in mind. From time to time there are a few crazies that try to do things like this in the name of Christ but the majority usually stops them, this never happens with Islam. If Islam was truly a religion of peace then their followers would be doing everything in their power to set the record straight and cleanup the image of the religion as a whole.

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There is a huge different between Christianity and Islam. One evolved and the other one didn't. Seriously most Christians aren't going to just sit by and watch this kind of crap happen. Where as in the savage Islam nothing is done to stop crap like this from happening in the first place. I do agree that majority of it is the laws Christian countries have but again those were some what founded with Christianity in mind. From time to time there are a few crazies that try to do things like this in the name of Christ but the majority usually stops them, this never happens with Islam. If Islam was truly a religion of peace then their followers would be doing everything in their power to set the record straight and cleanup the image of the religion as a whole.

Xtianity was created just like Islam.

 

Same as Judaism and Paganism.

 

Media report on bad things for their own ends.

 

However, one human taking another humans life is not right.

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Have you ever talked to Muslims in person? If you had you'd realise that yes, it is but a small yet vocal minority of Muslims who are fundamentalists, in favour of the sharia and all that.

I have, they talk the talk but don't do squat about it. That's the problem. You don't see this with Christians that point in all this. Lets just say if only 5% of the Islam followers do this extreme stuff why don't the other 95% try to stop them? That's because 95% of them do this extreme stuff and at most the 5% would not. If you don't do anything about it then you are just as guilty as the ones who do it.

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Obviously this topic can't be discussed in a mature manner.

 

Closed

 

 

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