Pay to Win?

[Emn1ty]

Here's another thing. If you are playing on public servers you will be facing people from rank 1 all the way up to max rank. Why does it matter if some one bought their unlocks when there are 15 more guys on the same server who did it legit? Does it make any difference if you die to the 15 who did it legit or the one who bought his unlocks? I certainly don't think so. At most, for BF3 it's pay for convenience.

 

In a game like BF3 I think buying unlocks has a place. But in other games like mmos or competitive fighting games, definitely not.

 

It matters in that they dropped money to get past the BS I have to deal with in order to make the game playable. That's what matters. And the primary point I'm making is I shouldn't have to get trampled on by those who have no life outside of playing games (or have deeper pockets) because I'm not willing to throw down $20-$30 to bypass the frustration of trying to grind my way up. I'd sooner just not play the game.

 

Why this is relevant is that these games have created a situation where in order to progress you must play. And then once this was the norm, they can now profit off of one's want to not have to grind and squeeze more out of you. It is at it's very core pay to win, because you are not earning your place at the same pace as others. It further creates a disproportionate number of "veterans" making the game harder to access for new players. Aka, it widens the gap between new and experience players.

 

Also, in a game like Battlefield unlocks have no place. The game originally had no unlocks at all, look at anything previous BF2. Nor should unlocks in multiplayer give anyone a significant or even any advantage over other players (which BF3 does in spades).

[DeltaXray]

They should have been paying US for beta testing their game.  It is still not in a good state.

[trag3dy]

It matters in that they dropped money to get past the BS I have to deal with in order to make the game playable. That's what matters. And the primary point I'm making is I shouldn't have to get trampled on by those who have no life outside of playing games (or have deeper pockets) because I'm not willing to throw down $20-$30 to bypass the frustration of trying to grind my way up. I'd sooner just not play the game.

 

Why this is relevant is that these games have created a situation where in order to progress you must play. And then once this was the norm, they can now profit off of one's want to not have to grind and squeeze more out of you. It is at it's very core pay to win, because you are not earning your place at the same pace as others. It further creates a disproportionate number of "veterans" making the game harder to access for new players. Aka, it widens the gap between new and experience players.

 

Also, in a game like Battlefield unlocks have no place. The game originally had no unlocks at all, look at anything previous BF2. Nor should unlocks in multiplayer give anyone a significant or even any advantage over other players (which BF3 does in spades).

 

I agree with most of what you said there. Unlocks don't have a place in Battlefield games and it is greed. 

 

That being said unless something really big happens, like literally no one buying the next Battlefield game (for example) it's not gonna change any time soon.

[illage3]

In my opinion Pay to Win or "Freemium" is a bad model to start with.  The games are not fun, they are made with the intention of you having to spend money.  EA is one of the worst offenders for this, with the infamous (and falsely advertised) Dungeon keeper on Android and iOS asking you to shell out up to ?69.99 to let you mine a few squares and asks you to pay more money to speed up this process.  These are not games, these are money spending simulators.

[Raa]

It's destroying a lot of games and should be stopped.

Boosts, DLC, unlocks. BAD! (N)

[trag3dy]

In my opinion Pay to Win or "Freemium" is a bad model to start with.  The games are not fun, they are made with the intention of you having to spend money.  EA is one of the worst offenders for this, with the infamous (and falsely advertised) Dungeon keeper on Android and iOS asking you to shell out up to ?69.99 to let you mine a few squares and asks you to pay more money to speed up this process.  These are not games, these are money spending simulators.

 

Interesting you say they aren't fun when there are a lot of big games out there that are so popular they run contrary to your opinion. League of Legends is the big one that comes to mind. Dota 2 another. Team Fortress 2 yet another. League of Legends being the most popular game of all time worldwide. And it's freemium.

 

Generalizing very rarely works out. It would be fair to say the majority of them are not fun. Which is not to say they are all not fun.

[Mr. Gibs]

All presented in a very non-engaging, uninteresting and most of all non-persistent way. One of my biggest pet peeves about MMO's is the fact that literally nothing you do matters outside of getting experience. Perhaps that's the real core of the issue, you spend all this time in an MMO to learn all the lore... then when you want to do something different you have to start it aaaall over again. I'm not surprised MMO gamers' have devolved into the current mindset. There was nothing to stop that from happening.

To be fair the reason WoW has become so much raid focused is because that's what the players wanted.

You go and ask people what they want to do in WoW and the majority will say they want to raid and kill the bosses. Why should Blizzard spend hundreds of hours doing things differently when most players only care about rushing through the levels, dungeons, heroics and doing raids?

You can see that in their dungeon design. If you compare the vanilla dungeons to the current dungeons its like night and day. In Vanilla you had to do a billion things, the dungeons were long and interesting. But people constantly complained so now it's just a race to get your valor points. And then now you have people who complain that its too boring...well isn't that what you wanted?

[PGHammer]

Micro-transactions are a way to circumvent the grind. My point is that is another "pay to win" wall. People either need to play for hundreds of hours, or drop $40 to bypass it and start playing against those with far more time on their hands on the same level. That's not fun.

 

Grinding, honestly, shouldn't exist in every genre and it annoys me that its infected most of them. One of the primary reasons I'm not a fan of RPG's (MMO, JRPG, etc) is the grinding mechanic. As you said it's not fun. And I don't think micro-transactions solve that problem or even fight it. They just worsen the problem cause then people who can't drop the money feel like they are being shafted.

DCUO has a rather unusual MT model, in that it is based on in-game currency (not real money) - the biggest problem is that, despite the in-game-currency basis, the highest-value items are only purchasable via other full-tilt subscribers due to this group having the highest limits on in-game currency.  Fully-free - as in no DLC purchased - players have a three-character limit, and $1000 in in-game-currency per player character; purchase a single DLC package and the number of characters goes up to seven, per-character in-game currency goes up to $2000, and you have more storage space for in-game items (gear, base amenities, etc.), AND you have a small base/lair to call your own (if you purchase the Home Turf DLC, you have a much larger base for each of your characters, as well as getting to participate in PvP against opposing players and their bases).  Legendary (now All-Access) players get access to all DLC packages, no limits on in-game currency per character, and even higher limits as far as gear per character, base amenities, etc.

 

You CAN get to the highest levels of character without using the Broker (DCUO's version of the Auction House), or being a Legendary/All-Access subscriber - my Tank has a combat rating of 81, while my healer has one of 78; however, you must own at least one DLC to do it, and you DO have to grind.  Basically, you have to work for it.

 

One other change SOE made is that All-Access (which replaced Legendary) is now purchaseable by the month and for three-month, six-month, and annual terms entirely via game-time cards (a credit or debit card is no longer required - not even for annual terms).

[Emn1ty]

To be fair the reason WoW has become so much raid focused is because that's what the players wanted.

You go and ask people what they want to do in WoW and the majority will say they want to raid and kill the bosses. Why should Blizzard spend hundreds of hours doing things differently when most players only care about rushing through the levels, dungeons, heroics and doing raids?

You can see that in their dungeon design. If you compare the vanilla dungeons to the current dungeons its like night and day. In Vanilla you had to do a billion things, the dungeons were long and interesting. But people constantly complained so now it's just a race to get your valor points. And then now you have people who complain that its too boring...well isn't that what you wanted?

 

Yes, this is very true. Gamers often contradict things. If things take a long time they get frustrated, but if they are too simple they get bored. But what developers need to do is take control of their games and not let whining dictate it. I'm fine if the games end up how they are supposed to be or were wanted. But I don't think it's justification for every game to start copying that model.

[Guest]

There's a massive story, tons and tons of cool things to discover in WoW but most people don't care.

 

 

If only more people would focus on the story. It is messed up, yet beautiful and engaging.

[astropheed Veteran]

League of Legends being the most popular game of all time worldwide.

 

Is it Really? Or are you exaggerating? I know it's popular but I don't think it's anywhere near the most popular game ever.

[LittleNeutrino Veteran]

Is it Really? Or are you exaggerating? I know it's popular but I don't think it's anywhere near the most popular game ever.

 

While i personaly do not believe it Apparently in 2011 and 2012 it actually was.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaudiosi/2012/07/11/riot-games-league-of-legends-officially-becomes-most-played-pc-game-in-the-world/

 

 

According to a new list provided by DFC Intelligence in conjunction with Xfire, League of Legends gamers logged nearly 1.3 billion hours of gameplay. In second place was World of Warcraft, which despite some usage declines, still registered more than 600 million hours of gameplay (not including Asia).