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#61 SierraSonic

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 23:04

Horribly wrong stereotypes - LOL

I have never heard of a horribly wrong stereotype - never.

There is truth in every stereotype - otherwise it would be dismissed.  It may not apply to everyone - but if it wasnt true - it wouldnt stick.

The majority of fast food workers in US are non-english speaking people in a job where they need to speak/understand english -
Why do you think they all went to pictures of food on the cash registers ?

If they were worth more - they would get more - its called a promotion - sorry to burst your bubble - (no Im not)

$15 / hour to constantly screw up the simplest of tasks ???   no - their pay is adequate - tell them to stop having so many kids

The vast majority are women, the vast majority are adults, the vast majority have children. You seem to think that these are jobs teenagers want, they work here and then move on with their lives. The people who stay and try to be dedicated, are screwed over because they have no support, not from their bosses, not from their customers, and definitely not from low lives who care more about thinking they saved money when instead they are just going to pay more in taxes to support these very people they hate.

 

[Numbers in thousands] http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm
Occupation 2013 Total
employed Percent of total employed Women Black or
African
American Asian Hispanic
or Latino

Food preparation and serving related occupations

8,209 54.7 12.2 5.7 24.4

55% are women, 42% are minorities. Which means over 58% must be white according to statistics.

 

You just proved my point. Either way, what happens to all these people once these labor only jobs are taken over by robots, will you enjoy knowing you are going to pay to help these people out more than if they were working trying to support themselves? By all accounts, if these people are such horrid monsters that they can barely do these jobs, imagine forcing the easy jobs out of the market.

 

It's not called a promotion, it's called greed, and a lack of proper legislation. I'm just going to argue one since the other can't be regulated. The minimum wage as it stands with todays money is currently worth less than half of what it was worth during most of it's run. Minimum wage, for all jobs including fast food, used to pay people what equals $15 in todays money. For the same job, you made twice the amount of money. As time went one, and the dollar lost value, it was okay, as they always raise the minimum wage somewhat in line with inflation, so the value stayed near that $15 equivalent. Sometime after the 70s, the value of the minimum wage started to drop below that of inflation, so over the last 30 years we saw a decline in wage value as the minimum wage stagnated. It has come to the point where you are now working for less than half of what you parents were for equal work. This is compounded by the fact that 

http://20somethingfi...ivity-vacation/

 

Not only that, we now have less benefits, less vacation time, and we have increased productivity 400%.

 

So we get 4 times the work done, at half the pay, and we are constantly asked to do more for less.

 

America is becoming backwards, and your ideals aren't helping push us forward.




#62 benthebear

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 23:45



All raising minimum wage will do is cause higher inflation thus pretty much wiping out the middle class entirely and devaluing any retirement savings people have gained over the years. I know a number of people who start in the mid 30's with a 4 year degree in professions such as teaching, marketing, supply chain, etc. You're telling me that a guy flipping burgers should make the same amount as the person who is educating your children?

 

But wait, the market compensates and inflation increases. So now teachers make $50k starting. But wait, that $100k you had saved all of the sudden became only "worth" $60k in 2013 dollars. It's a cycle. 

 

This comparison always bothers me because it is apples and oranges. You're comparing a private sector job to a public sector job. Different sources of revenue. I mean, the NFL pays guys in the millions to run around a field and catch a ball. Does that person deserve more than the person who is educating your child? Does that person deserve more than the person defending your country?

 

See what I mean?

 

If you work for a company while giving it your all, and that company has billions and billions of dollars in profit just sitting there, then what's the harm in asking for a livable wage? 



#63 T3X4S

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:02

The vast majority are women, the vast majority are adults, the vast majority have children. You seem to think that these are jobs teenagers want, they work here and then move on with their lives. The people who stay and try to be dedicated, are screwed over because they have no support, not from their bosses, not from their customers, and definitely not from low lives who care more about thinking they saved money when instead they are just going to pay more in taxes to support these very people they hate.

 

[Numbers in thousands] http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm
Occupation 2013 Total
employed Percent of total employed Women Black or
African
American Asian Hispanic
or Latino

Food preparation and serving related occupations

8,209 54.7 12.2 5.7 24.4

55% are women, 42% are minorities. Which means over 58% must be white according to statistics.

 

You just proved my point. Either way, what happens to all these people once these labor only jobs are taken over by robots, will you enjoy knowing you are going to pay to help these people out more than if they were working trying to support themselves? By all accounts, if these people are such horrid monsters that they can barely do these jobs, imagine forcing the easy jobs out of the market.

 

It's not called a promotion, it's called greed, and a lack of proper legislation. I'm just going to argue one since the other can't be regulated. The minimum wage as it stands with todays money is currently worth less than half of what it was worth during most of it's run. Minimum wage, for all jobs including fast food, used to pay people what equals $15 in todays money. For the same job, you made twice the amount of money. As time went one, and the dollar lost value, it was okay, as they always raise the minimum wage somewhat in line with inflation, so the value stayed near that $15 equivalent. Sometime after the 70s, the value of the minimum wage started to drop below that of inflation, so over the last 30 years we saw a decline in wage value as the minimum wage stagnated. It has come to the point where you are now working for less than half of what you parents were for equal work. This is compounded by the fact that 

http://20somethingfi...ivity-vacation/

 

Not only that, we now have less benefits, less vacation time, and we have increased productivity 400%.

 

So we get 4 times the work done, at half the pay, and we are constantly asked to do more for less.

 

America is becoming backwards, and your ideals aren't helping push us forward.

You are right about minimum wage not being adjusted for current dollar value - that is wrong.
Your comment did raise an eyebrow though about a couple things...

You said teenagers start @ fast food, then move on --   And the reason some people get better jobs is because of greed ?  Doesnt make sense.
If teenagers start there then move on -- why aren't others ?  Teenagers have some special sauce that makes them more marketable ?  They are the exact opposite.
What is the reason for some moving up the ladder ?  Getting out of fast food altogether ?
In Texas, the break down of minorities in fast food is much different than your national stats -
You think Productivity being up 400% is the result of the grunt workers on the front line ??   Tell me how you got to that conclusion.  I'd like to hear your reasoning.  (Dont you think technology, proper mgmt, innovation, are contributing factors ?
If 400% productivity is increased, then how much did the work force increase ?

In Texas, min wage is $7.25 I think - not much, thats why you start there and work your way up.  My first job was working at a golf course - cleaning golf carts in the cart barn.  It sucked, but I tried everyday to do it faster and better than everyone.  Second month of employment - I got employee of the month, 4th month was made supervisor.  During the first year I improved my golfing abilities enough and was asked to be one of the Asst. golf pros in the pro shop, giving lessons, schmoozing with customers, and basically get paid to hang out and talk golf and watch Golf Channel all day - granted it wasn't a lot of money - but I think you get my point.  I busted my ass, and kept getting promotions - thats the name of the game --- not demanding government to mandate something.

I am quite sure you were lumping me in the "low life" description in your post - thats kinda uncalled for dont you think ?

 



#64 Klownicle

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 14:53

Sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut, then to complain.  I for one welcome our new robot overlords.



#65 SierraSonic

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 17:41

You are right about minimum wage not being adjusted for current dollar value - that is wrong.
Your comment did raise an eyebrow though about a couple things...

You said teenagers start @ fast food, then move on --   And the reason some people get better jobs is because of greed ?  Doesnt make sense.
If teenagers start there then move on -- why aren't others ?  Teenagers have some special sauce that makes them more marketable ?  They are the exact opposite.
What is the reason for some moving up the ladder ?  Getting out of fast food altogether ?
In Texas, the break down of minorities in fast food is much different than your national stats -
You think Productivity being up 400% is the result of the grunt workers on the front line ??   Tell me how you got to that conclusion.  I'd like to hear your reasoning.  (Dont you think technology, proper mgmt, innovation, are contributing factors ?
If 400% productivity is increased, then how much did the work force increase ?

In Texas, min wage is $7.25 I think - not much, thats why you start there and work your way up.  My first job was working at a golf course - cleaning golf carts in the cart barn.  It sucked, but I tried everyday to do it faster and better than everyone.  Second month of employment - I got employee of the month, 4th month was made supervisor.  During the first year I improved my golfing abilities enough and was asked to be one of the Asst. golf pros in the pro shop, giving lessons, schmoozing with customers, and basically get paid to hang out and talk golf and watch Golf Channel all day - granted it wasn't a lot of money - but I think you get my point.  I busted my ass, and kept getting promotions - thats the name of the game --- not demanding government to mandate something.

I am quite sure you were lumping me in the "low life" description in your post - thats kinda uncalled for dont you think ?

 

I gave numerical figures for the national average, sure states vary greatly from each other, but the base national level should equal a living wage based across all the states, then it should be up to individual state to raise it above that level if their cost of living is greater. A blank all for one approach is something I never stated would be the best way to do anything.

 

http://en.wikipedia...._real_wages.jpg

Productivity per hours worked, the 400% came in relation to how we worked compared to ourselves in the past, and it did not include that data because work productivity in general hasn't been affected by computers and automation until the late 90s. Yet the divide in wages started happening in the early-mid 70s, the exact same time minimum wage started to drastically stagnate.

 

Low life? No, well not unless you fit the criteria I specified. Do you think you will be paying less if people earn less and live on the system more? If yes, then yes, if no then congrats.

 

There is a difference between belittling your effort to work, and trying to get you a proper wage for the work that you do. Everyone who makes less than $15 an hour right now is technically getting ###### pay and deserves more. Anyone making more than that deserves to have their pay moved to the proper value also. Yet, there is currently no law that protects those that make above the minimum wage, and no one is going to call for all wages to be adjusted to inflation in line with the minimum wage. SO yes, people in the middle will lose out if their bosses do not compensate eventually. Which then those people living above poverty should move on to where they are better suit for pay.

 

You are asking those who are struggling to live, to add more burden to their lives to try to get formal education for a field, which takes time. Just because everyone is given a legally equal chance at successful life doesn't mean that their personal hardships wont make it more difficult if not near impossible to move to a better career, specifically if they have dependants that rely on them. It's easier if say you are young and alone than if you are old with a family to feed, which is why most older people who stay at fast food are getting screwed by these stereotypes. Yes there is always a chance at success, but there is no guarantee that any amount of hard work and training will pay off, if they are accessible at all.

 

To say "screw people because of the mistakes they made" is basically saying "they deserve it". And it costs everyone if we cant even setup a system where people could support themselves.

 

I agree, promotions to get ahead in life, regulations to get started fairly are required though. Again, I'm sorry that you feel that all your hard work was for nothing when minimum wage rises. But this is a problem caused by lax regulation that is only going to get worse if we don't fix it soon. You should be trying to "punish" those who caused the problem, and not those suffering because of it.



#66 MDboyz

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 17:58

At least I know robots won't split into my buggers :) ...



#67 +primortal

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 17:59

At least I know robots won't split into my buggers :) ...

How about a little hydraulic fluid or metal shavings from a defective joint  :x



#68 MDboyz

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Posted 28 May 2014 - 18:14

A lot of foods are already prepared in automated assembly.  Do not think this is even a case.

 

How about a little hydraulic fluid or metal shavings from a defective joint  :x