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UK 'threatens to quit EU over presidency' - Der Spiegel

 

German magazine Der Spiegel says British PM David Cameron warned that the UK could leave the EU if Luxembourg ex-PM Jean-Claude Juncker became president of the European Commission.

 

It reported Mr Cameron as saying that the appointment could destabilise his government, which may bring forward referendum plans on EU membership.

 

Downing Street has not yet commented.

 

Mr Juncker's European People's Party won the largest number of seats in the European parliament in the May polls.

 

The centre-right party, which also includes German Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats, won 213 out of 751 seats in the Parliament and chose Mr Juncker as its candidate for the presidency, succeeding Portugal's Jose Manuel Barroso.

 

But David Cameron and several other European leaders have voiced opposition to his appointment, which has received the backing of Chancellor Merkel.

 

Brussels warning

Correspondents say Mr Cameron had made his views clear, at an informal EU summit earlier this week, that he wanted a reformer to take charge of the EU executive.

 

Der Spiegel says the British prime minister issued the warning to Angela Merkel during the meeting in Brussels.

 

Quoting "sources close to the participants" of the summit, the influential magazine said Mr Cameron told Chancellor Merkel that selecting Mr Juncker could destabilise his government to such an extent that an in-out referendum on Britain's EU membership would have to be brought forward.

 

The magazine quotes Mr Cameron as telling the German chancellor that "a face from the 1980s cannot solve the problems of the next five years".

 

A senior government source told the BBC it did not recognise the language about destabilisation and that it is not something the prime minister would have said.

 

But the BBC's Chris Morris in Brussels says it is no secret that Mr Cameron opposes Mr Juncker and that the UK view is that the need for change is well established.

 

The report comes a day after Angela Merkel made her clearest statement yet of support for Mr Juncker and leaves her in a difficult position, our correspondent says.

 

He adds that much of the German political establishment believes Mr Juncker should get the job because his party will be the largest political grouping.

 

EU leaders traditionally choose the Commission head on their own, but under new rules have to "take into account" the results of the European elections.

 

Downing Street has emphasised that it will be national governments - not the European parliament - which will have to agree on the president.

 

Mr Juncker's main rival is the Socialist candidate Martin Schulz.

 

Mr Juncker is known for his role in chairing the Eurogroup of eurozone finance ministers that had to make tough decisions about struggling debt-laden countries.

 

Mr Juncker is not thought to be amenable to a wide-ranging renegotiation of Britain's relationship with Brussels.

 

Other leaders opposing the appointment include Sweden's Fredrik Reinfeldt and Hungary's Viktor Orban.

 

Source: BBC News

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Yeah UK does definitely need to remove itself from the EU.

 

No problem with people moving around if they are working and contributing but there has been a huge increase in people who either just come and camp out somewhere and don't live anywhere or come here just to claim benefits.

 

I love how you get for example Australia who's borders are tighter than tight and are respected for it. For example if I wanted to move there i'd already need a job offer for a specific industry and somewhere to live etc.  Yet some parties want to close Englands borders (which would still end up more lax than Australias) and all of a sudden they are racist.

 

England needs to get out of the EU and start making its own laws for once.

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Yeah UK does definitely need to remove itself from the EU.

 

And lose a third of London? Great.

 

I get job offers like there's no tomorrow, as there's an urgent demand for web developers in the UK, but hey?let's kick me out back to Sweden where I belong.

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i hate countries with tight borders. in those you only can go if you are super-rich, privileged or both or know the right people.

the thing with EU is, every country wants to have with the union what switzerland has, but obviously thats not possible.

other than that, i dont worry much. uk wont leave. remember years ago when germany was in financial trouble, the eu introduced a rule that you can increase your debt over 3% ... :rofl:

now in uk cameron is very very weak, he will most likely lose the next election anyway. its always a sign of very very very weak leadership if new parties from the far left/right and even center do appear and gain momentum. how big were the ukip numbers when tony blair was prime minister? now even the green party is on the rise if i remember correctly.

cameron and merkel are two of the most weak leaders i have ever seen. (even obama is better!)

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And lose a third of London? Great.

 

I get job offers like there's no tomorrow, as there's an urgent demand for web developers in the UK, but hey?let's kick me out back to Sweden where I belong.

 

Nobody said anything about kicking out people who are working. It should just be that if people are going to emigrate to the UK they should be working and not just coming here to claim benefits or sponge the NHS system.

 

I certainly don't begrudge the working man or woman the right to want to live and work wherever they want, if they are contributing and paying their taxes like everybody else.  If you are coming to the UK to work, crack on.

 

My issue is the influx of absolute spongers who come here to just milk the system. It is a legitimate problem and just wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere in the world.

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Nobody said anything about kicking out people who are working. It should just be that if people are going to emigrate to the UK they should be working and not just coming here to claim benefits or sponge the NHS system.

 

I certainly don't begrudge the working man or woman the right to want to live and work wherever they want, if they are contributing and paying their taxes like everybody else.  If you are coming to the UK to work, crack on.

 

My issue is the influx of absolute spongers who come here to just milk the system. It is a legitimate problem and just wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere in the world.

 

 

There is no "influx of absolute spongers who come here to just milk the system".  That's a "problem" the Tories made up to demonise immigrants and distract from the dreadful benefit cuts they've imposed (such as the bedroom tax).  You've fallen for a lie.

 

Oh, and I won't ask you to prove your claim of benefits tourism because even the right-wing press report that the government doesn't have any evidence to back up their claims:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10361971/Britain-admits-it-has-no-figures-on-EU-welfare-tourist-numbers.html

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Yeah kick out all the asylum seekers, illegal immigrants the "spongers" all who are here milking the system, yeah? leave that to the British citizen whose been doing that for years

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In my completely unbiased opinion, British immigration policy should be Commonwealth first, EU second. 

 

And of those Commonwealth countries, the ones with old Liz the Queen as their official heads of government should be at the top of that list. And of course, the further away from the UK you are, the higher up on that line you should be.

(No, it is purely a coincidence that NZ comes top of that list.)

 

All we from down south demand in return is a steady stream of national and Lions rugby team defeats to our glorious and most righteous World Champion team. 

 

(But seriously - people from NZ/AUS are the ideal immigrants to the UK: Already speak English (well!), are well educated with good experience, integrate well with British society, and more often than not - we go back to where we came from, so we aren't a burden on Britain. Why the heck are you Brits letting absolutely everyone in but us?)

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In my completely unbiased opinion, British immigration policy should be Commonwealth first, EU second. 

 

And of those Commonwealth countries, the ones with old Liz the Queen as their official heads of government should be at the top of that list. And of course, the further away from the UK you are, the higher up on that line you should be.

(No, it is purely a coincidence that NZ comes top of that list.)

 

All we from down south demand in return is a steady stream of national and Lions rugby team defeats to our glorious and most righteous World Champion team. 

 

(But seriously - people from NZ/AUS are the ideal immigrants to the UK: Already speak English (well!), are well educated with good experience, integrate well with British society, and more often than not - we go back to where we came from, so we aren't a burden on Britain. Why the heck are you Brits letting absolutely everyone in but us?)

I agree with you.

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In my completely unbiased opinion, British immigration policy should be Commonwealth first, EU second. 

 

And of those Commonwealth countries, the ones with old Liz the Queen as their official heads of government should be at the top of that list. And of course, the further away from the UK you are, the higher up on that line you should be.

(No, it is purely a coincidence that NZ comes top of that list.)

 

All we from down south demand in return is a steady stream of national and Lions rugby team defeats to our glorious and most righteous World Champion team. 

 

(But seriously - people from NZ/AUS are the ideal immigrants to the UK: Already speak English (well!), are well educated with good experience, integrate well with British society, and more often than not - we go back to where we came from, so we aren't a burden on Britain. Why the heck are you Brits letting absolutely everyone in but us?)

 

It's exceedingly easy for Australians and New Zealanders to get in to the UK.  Anyone under 30 can come and stay for two years on a working holiday visa and its trivial to convert that into a work visa if you want to stay longer.

 

Also, the right to freedom of movement within the EU is not something that can be de-prioritised in favour of Commonwealth countries.  It's a mandatory requirement of membership of the EU and a sensible one at that.  It makes no sense to go to the trouble of producing a free trade area if you don't allow workers to trade their labour freely.  Restricting movement within the EU would be as silly as restricting movement between the north and south islands of NZ or between states of Australia.

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Although the issue that has captivated the public is immigration, the main topic is the threat by our prime minister.

 

At least half of EU countries want reform at the center of the table, and if this is not the cast then there is a good chance the UK and a fair few other countries could wave good-bye to it because of strong opposition in the recent polls.

 

I agree with him.  There are good points to being in the EU but if it only strongly benefits London, what about the rest of UK?

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It's exceedingly easy for Australians and New Zealanders to get in to the UK.  Anyone under 30 can come and stay for two years on a working holiday visa and its trivial to convert that into a work visa if you want to stay longer.

 

Also, the right to freedom of movement within the EU is not something that can be de-prioritised in favour of Commonwealth countries.  It's a mandatory requirement of membership of the EU and a sensible one at that.  It makes no sense to go to the trouble of producing a free trade area if you don't allow workers to trade their labour freely.  Restricting movement within the EU would be as silly as restricting movement between the north and south islands of NZ or between states of Australia.

 

Exceedingly easy to work in the UK if you don't want to be a doctor, dentist, pharmacist, etc. Jobs that graduates from Australasian universities are pretty damn near perfect to fill, much more than some person from Croatia, or any one of the numerous EU countries with frankly inferior education systems.  

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Exceedingly easy to work in the UK if you don't want to be a doctor, dentist, pharmacist, etc. Jobs that graduates from Australasian universities are pretty damn near perfect to fill, much more than Boris from Croatia. 

 

I see you just changed Boris to some person. 

 

I'm not sure what makes you think that some person from Croatia is any less qualified to be a doctor in the UK than some person from Australia.  As long as they have equivalent qualifications then I don't see the problem.  Also, the NHS is highly dependant on foreign medical staff and that's not restricted to workers from the EU.  There are many antipodeans working in the NHS right now along with people from all over the world.

 

You seem to have a low opinion of European workers.  They're just as likely to be highly educated as antipodeans and in most cases speak English.  In many cases their English is better than most native-born speakers and certainly people from Australia.  Workers from Eastern European countries have often demonstrated a willingness to do any work necessary to get on even if they are overqualified.  As an example, my Hungarian builder has just completed his second degree.  He first studied economics in Hungary and then came to the UK and started a building business.  His second degree is in historic building conservation which he studied here in London.  His English is perfect although his accent might be considered strong and he and his team are some of the hardest working and most diligent people I know. 

 

EDIT:  Oh, I see that you also added something about the inferior education systems in Europe.  Amazing how you're able to write off a continent with over 500 million people based on all your experience from the other side of the world.

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Also, the right to freedom of movement within the EU is not something that can be de-prioritised in favour of Commonwealth countries.  It's a mandatory requirement of membership of the EU and a sensible one at that.  It makes no sense to go to the trouble of producing a free trade area if you don't allow workers to trade their labour freely.  Restricting movement within the EU would be as silly as restricting movement between the north and south islands of NZ or between states of Australia.

 

Freedom of movement is one thing. Freedom of SETTLING is another entirely.  If they want to actually live here, they should apply for immigration from OUTSIDE the country.

Although the issue that has captivated the public is immigration, the main topic is the threat by our prime minister.

 

At least half of EU countries want reform at the center of the table, and if this is not the cast then there is a good chance the UK and a fair few other countries could wave good-bye to it because of strong opposition in the recent polls.

 

I agree with him.  There are good points to being in the EU but if it only strongly benefits London, what about the rest of UK?

 

Absolutely.  If they put someone in charge who won't entertain reform, then it's time to walk away/

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Although the issue that has captivated the public is immigration, the main topic is the threat by our prime minister.

 

At least half of EU countries want reform at the center of the table, and if this is not the cast then there is a good chance the UK and a fair few other countries could wave good-bye to it because of strong opposition in the recent polls.

 

I agree with him.  There are good points to being in the EU but if it only strongly benefits London, what about the rest of UK?

 

Cameron's problem (one of them anyway) is that he bet on the wrong horse.  He pulled out of the EPP grouping to form his own nasty little group full of homophobes and holocaust deniers and thus gave up the right to have any say on the selection of Juncker as the EPP candidate.  The EPP won last week's election and will naturally support their candidate for the presidency.  That's democracy in action.

 

Cameron has sidelined himself and Britain within Europe and makes himself look stupid every time he tries to throw his weight around.

 

This London vs the rest of the UK bit it getting old too.  It's silly to suggest that London uniquely benefits from EU membership but the rest of the UK doesn't.  Are you suggesting that businesses in London are the only ones benefiting from access to European markets?  Do only Londoners take advantage of the right to work and live elsewhere in Europe?  Are Londoners the only ones who benefits from the help of European workers, the closer cultural ties, the protections of EU courts, etc.?  Of course not.  We're all better off in the EU and the EU is better off having us in it as well.  It's not perfect but we're better off trying to improve it from within rather than shouting boo-yah from the sidelines.

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Freedom of movement is one thing. Freedom of SETTLING is another entirely.  If they want to actually live here, they should apply for immigration from OUTSIDE the country.

 

Why?  You don't expect someone from Wales to apply for the right to move to England or vice versa.  Movement within the EU should be no different. The whole point of the EU is to remove barriers to free trade and the right to move wherever you want is the most important of these.

 

By the way, the number of Britons who have taken advantage of their right to free movement is not far off the number of people who have come to the UK from elsewhere in Europe.  I presume you wouldn't want to bring those people back to the UK, especially not all the pensioners living in Spain.

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With all due respect to Prime minister David Cameron (read: absolutely none whatsoever), please do.

 

Do leave the European Union. Everyone on the continent is getting tired of your constant threats and whining that only serve one purpose: try to woo the voters who left the conservative party for the UKIP or the BNP.

You are making a fool of yourself and people are beginning to regret Margaret Thatcher or John Major who, contrary to you, never left the negotiation table and tried to work a deal with the other countries.

 

Bear in mind that you will lose the mother of all excuses: Europe. You will not be able to blame Europe for the Scotland independency, you will not be able to blame Europe for you own integration policies failures, you will not be able Europe for the wars in Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan that have forced many of these people to seek asylum in Europe and especially in the UK where these people have already families.

You will not be able to blame Europe for you own failing of doing anything against industry delocalisation your own corporation did, lawless capitalism (HSBC, London Inter Exchange Scandal or Jersey/Guernsey fiscal paradises)

You will not be able to blame Europe for all the transnational problems: environment, standard food safety rules (Mad cow disease or the Spice Girls)

 

You can also forget Rolls Royce engines for Airbus planes, you can forget English people retiring easily in the southwest of France or in Spain, you can forget about non existing visas or entry fees into countries, you can even ask for the tunnel under the channel to be close and flooded so that England is an island.

 

Please, do leave the European Union. Do not let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, we do not want ass prints of the doors.

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Why?  You don't expect someone from Wales to apply for the right to move to England or vice versa.  Movement within the EU should be no different. The whole point of the EU is to remove barriers to free trade and the right to move wherever you want is the most important of these.

 

By the way, the number of Britons who have taken advantage of their right to free movement is not far off the number of people who have come to the UK from elsewhere in Europe.  I presume you wouldn't want to bring those people back to the UK, especially not all the pensioners living in Spain.

 

Because we're an island with limited capacity, that's why.  It's not a matter of people not being welcome, it's a matter of pushing local facilities to their limits so that it degrades for everyone.  

 

I'd also expect the same thing if I wanted to move to say, Spain.  It shouldn't just be a matter of getting in a car and going.  I should have to fill out a bunch of forms and show that I have the money to live on or that I've found work.  There should be a language requirement too.

 

If people are just going to go somewhere and then live off hand outs, then they shouldn't be allowed in.

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There is no "influx of absolute spongers who come here to just milk the system".  That's a "problem" the Tories made up to Demonise immigrants and distract from the dreadful benefit cuts they've imposed (such as the bedroom tax).  You've fallen for a lie.

 

Oh, and I won't ask you to prove your claim of benefits tourism because even the right-wing press report that the government doesn't have any evidence to back up their claims:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10361971/Britain-admits-it-has-no-figures-on-EU-welfare-tourist-numbers.html

Just a little correction, not a conservative, used to be labour. Yes the Tories introduced the bedroom tax. Initially

Attendance Allowance

Disability Living Allowance and its replacement Personal Independence Payment (PIP)

Employment and Support Allowance where the Support Component has been awarded.

Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit

War Widow?s/ Widower?s Pension

Working Tax Credit

All except. Labour councils seeing it was not gonna hurt enough vulnerable groups voted (my council Dec 2013) to include those groups and hope no one finds out truth and blame the Conservatives, and it seems to have worked BTW, If you where in a Conservative or libdem dominated council, you would not pay it. Labour screws you not the government, and I have never and never will vote for them. The Conservatives that is.

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Because we're an island with limited capacity, that's why.  It's not a matter of people not being welcome, it's a matter of pushing local facilities to their limits so that it degrades for everyone.  

 

I'd also expect the same thing if I wanted to move to say, Spain.  It shouldn't just be a matter of getting in a car and going.  I should have to fill out a bunch of forms and show that I have the money to live on or that I've found work.  There should be a language requirement too.

 

If people are just going to go somewhere and then live off hand outs, then they shouldn't be allowed in.

 

Well nobody's doing that so there's one concern gone.

 

As for the limited capacity, I think the estimate is that we currently use something like 6% of the whole island for human habitation.  We have a long way to go before we are even close to full and I doubt we would be attracting too many newcomers as we approached that point.  As I pointed out, immigration and emigration are pretty evenly balanced so there's no real reason to worry about that.

 

There is some evidence that local facilities have struggled to keep up with immigration during the last decade.  That's the fault of government, not immigrants, and is fairly easily solved by proper planning.

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Just a little correction, not a conservative, used to be labour. Yes the Tories introduced the bedroom tax. Initially

Attendance Allowance

Disability Living Allowance and its replacement Personal Independence Payment (PIP)

Employment and Support Allowance where the Support Component has been awarded.

Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit

War Widow?s/ Widower?s Pension

Working Tax Credit

All except. Labour councils seeing it was not gonna hurt enough vulnerable groups voted (my council Dec 2013) to include those groups and hope no one finds out truth and blame the Conservatives, and it seems to have worked BTW, If you where in a Conservative or libdem dominated council, you would not pay it. Labour screws you not the government, and I have never and never will vote for them. The Conservatives that is.

 

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

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With all due respect to Prime minister David Cameron (read: absolutely none whatsoever), please do.

[...]

 

This. I'm personally tired of him and his empty threats. If the EU is such a big problem for the British people, please leave, and leave soon. No-one is forcing you to stay in a place that you hate, and no-one forced you to sign all the international treaties that are now the basis of the freedom of movement, freedom to settle, freedom to be an European citizen. 

 

And no, I don't expect any EU citizen to pass any sort of immigration to join any EU country as long as they play by the rules and pay their taxes. And if they don't, that's a local problem, where laws need to be changed or where they need to be properly enforced, and not an European issue.

 

Of course, it's easier to blame Europe for faults that are caused instead by a government which apparently is not doing its job properly. Of course, it's easy to say that European institutions are not operating as they should, and then forget that the British government has tried to block pretty much every attempt to increase the level of integration between all the EU members to pursue a much higher social equity and less differences between each system and their legislations.

 

If you leave, of course, good luck to survive in a globalised economy where the US, China, Russia and India are becoming more and more aggressive to enforce their own interests.

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This. I'm personally tired of him and his empty threats. If the EU is such a big problem for the British people, please leave, and leave soon. No-one is forcing you to stay in a place that you hate, and no-one forced you to sign all the international treaties that are now the basis of the freedom of movement, freedom to settle, freedom to be an European citizen. 

 

And no, I don't expect any EU citizen to pass any sort of immigration to join any EU country as long as they play by the rules and pay their taxes. And if they don't, that's a local problem, where laws need to be changed or where they need to be properly enforced, and not an European issue.

 

Of course, it's easier to blame Europe for faults that are caused instead by a government which apparently is not doing its job properly. Of course, it's easy to say that European institutions are not operating as they should, and then forget that the British government has tried to block pretty much every attempt to increase the level of integration between all the EU members to pursue a much higher social equity and less differences between each system and their legislations.

 

If you leave, of course, good luck to survive in a globalised economy where the US, China, Russia and India are becoming more and more aggressive to enforce their own interests.

 

It seems like it's not a Brit only problem, France seems poised to do the same, and who knows how many others, just because it's "cool" to be hating on the Brits and call opponents racist is just a ploy to ignore the bigger issue, there is a lot of discontent in member Countries with the direction of the EU, the apologists better start paying attention before you wake up one day and your dream will be over for the better of all 

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Well nobody's doing that so there's one concern gone.

Actually, quite a lot are doing that. Not to mention the hundreds of eastern european criminals operating in our cities. Roving gangs of pick pockets, shop lifters and so on.

 

 

As for the limited capacity, I think the estimate is that we currently use something like 6% of the whole island for human habitation.  We have a long way to go before we are even close to full and I doubt we would be attracting too many newcomers as we approached that point.  As I pointed out, immigration and emigration are pretty evenly balanced so there's no real reason to worry about that.

Now you're being disengenous. You know I meant space as regards to homes and facilities already built, not things that are yet to be built.

 

There is some evidence that local facilities have struggled to keep up with immigration during the last decade.  That's the fault of government, not immigrants, and is fairly easily solved by proper planning.

 

Government plans facilities based on normal population growth, not immigration based population explosion.

This. I'm personally tired of him and his empty threats. If the EU is such a big problem for the British people, please leave, and leave soon. No-one is forcing you to stay in a place that you hate, and no-one forced you to sign all the international treaties that are now the basis of the freedom of movement, freedom to settle, freedom to be an European citizen. 

 

And no, I don't expect any EU citizen to pass any sort of immigration to join any EU country as long as they play by the rules and pay their taxes. And if they don't, that's a local problem, where laws need to be changed or where they need to be properly enforced, and not an European issue.

 

Of course, it's easier to blame Europe for faults that are caused instead by a government which apparently is not doing its job properly. Of course, it's easy to say that European institutions are not operating as they should, and then forget that the British government has tried to block pretty much every attempt to increase the level of integration between all the EU members to pursue a much higher social equity and less differences between each system and their legislations.

 

If you leave, of course, good luck to survive in a globalised economy where the US, China, Russia and India are becoming more and more aggressive to enforce their own interests.

 

Anyone who isn't blind can see that the EU as is, has a lot of problems.  Without renegotiation, it will continue to get worse and worse.  They can start with all those incredibly powerful EU commissioners and so on that no one ever voted for.  How is that even remotely democratic?

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Actually, quite a lot are doing that. Not to mention the hundreds of eastern european criminals operating in our cities. Roving gangs of pick pockets, shop lifters and so on. 

 

Oh yes, those terrible hook-nosed gypos are everywhere.  Picking our pockets, sleeping with our women.  :rolleyes:

 

As mentioned earlier, the government bangs on about benefit tourism but doesn't compile any statistics to back up their claims.  If you've read the link I posted earlier you'll have seen that they "consider that [EU requests for statistics that support their claims] place too much emphasis on quantitative evidence."  I'd be interested to see where you get your statistics from or do you agree that facts just get in the way of a good argument?

 

The only fact-based evidence we do have comes from the EU which was forced to investigate to counter the British government's misinformation.  Here are the key stats:

 

? The "non-activity" rate among EU nationals in Britain is 30%. For UK nationals it is 43%.

? The unemployment rate among EU nationals in Britain is 7.5%. For UK nationals it is slightly higher, at 7.9%.

? The employment rate (for those age 16-64) among EU nationals is 77%. For UK nationals it is 72%.

? Approximately 4% of JSA claimants in the UK are EU migrants, although they represent well over 5% of those in work

 

In other words, there was no evidence of benefits tourism.

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