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Forjo

Warning to Windows 7 users upgrading to 8.1

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You have been lucky thats all. I am surprised you didn't have issues with the upgrades.

Luck has nothing to do with it. These products are designed to be upgraded. If you follow some simple guidelines (like keeping your system free of junk) then you won't have many (or any) problems either.

 

-Forjo

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Um I'm pretty sure that they do tell you, when you put in your disc and click upgrade it checks a bunch of stuff and then WARNS you that if you proceed with this upgrade you will lose the following applications. I know that in the past whenever I've upgraded OSes it has given me that warning and I doubt MS suddenly removed it for 8.1.

 

Yes, it does warn you. But this is AFTER you have purchased 8.1. You don't have an option at that point to refund the product and go back to 8.0. And if you look at the site, they say that 8.0 is only for Vista and XP users (which ironically, also have to reinstall programs).

 

So if an uninformed user follows Microsoft's directions, they'll purchase a product which will NOT fully upgrade their systems as they might expect.

 

Hence this thread.

 

-Forjo

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I've used Windows Media Center almost every day since 2005ish, for a PVR on a Windows based PC nothing else comes close at the moment. Got mine setup with a Quad DVB-T2 tuner (Freeview HD) happily using the Xbox 360's as Media Center Extenders.

I think its a real shame Microsoft have basically given up on Media Center, the Xbox One cant even act as an extender.

 

MediaPortal. 

granted WMC is useless over here anyway since MS don't allow you to manually search digital channels or edit the frequency list, and since they haven't gotten lists from any providers here, you can't use it with  tuner anyway. Now I don't use a tuner anymore though so I just use plex since it has syncing automatically across all my devices and two media centers. if there where any reasonably priced tuner cards with a CI+ slot and at least dual tuners that could use the same card, then I could go back to full HTPC setup. 

You have been lucky thats all. I am surprised you didn't have issues with the upgrades.

 

Upgrades are fine and work 99.9% of the time. This anti upgrade crusade amongst the so called "techs" is getting ever more ridiculous. 

Yes, it does warn you. But this is AFTER you have purchased 8.1. You don't have an option at that point to refund the product and go back to 8.0. And if you look at the site, they say that 8.0 is only for Vista and XP users (which ironically, also have to reinstall programs).

 

So if an uninformed user follows Microsoft's directions, they'll purchase a product which will NOT fully upgrade their systems as they might expect.

 

Hence this thread.

 

-Forjo

 

Though people who have actually done 7-8.1 upgrade says ti works and keeps all the installed software... so...

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Upgrades are fine and work 99.9% of the time. This anti upgrade crusade amongst the so called "techs" is getting ever more ridiculous. 

 

Though people who have actually done 7-8.1 upgrade says ti works and keeps all the installed software... so...

True that.

 

You only get to keep your installed software (according to the installer itself) if you go through 8.0 first. Do you know anyone who has gone directly from 7 to 8.1 without going through 8 and have kept their applications?

 

Thanks!

 

-Forjo

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True that.

 

You only get to keep your installed software (according to the installer itself) if you go through 8.0 first. Do you know anyone who has gone directly from 7 to 8.1 without going through 8 and have kept their applications?

 

Thanks!

 

-Forjo

It can't be done. Thats 2 OS jumps. The tech net link I posted shows this. Anyone claiming such needs to post picks or it didn't happen.

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I just can't understand why they do stuff like this!

Would you rather a broken system? The best upgrade is a clean install.

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Would you rather a broken system? The best upgrade is a clean install.

No it isn't -- and for the reasons I already stated.

 

A clean install is a broken system if you lose all your programs and settings (and in some cases, drivers) -- particularly if some of them can't be obtained anymore.

 

-Forjo

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Am I in a time warp? Microsoft said all of this BEFORE THE LAUNCH OF WINDOWS 8.1. This is common knowledge.

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Am I in a time warp? Microsoft said all of this BEFORE THE LAUNCH OF WINDOWS 8.1. This is common knowledge.

Said what?  That they would direct XP and Vista users to buy 8.0 (which won't keep their apps but would keep the apps of Windows 7 users); and that they would direct Windows 7 users to buy 8.1, which won't keep their apps, instead of 8.0 which would?

 

-Forjo

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No it isn't -- and for the reasons I already stated.

 

A clean install is a broken system if you lose all your programs and settings (and in some cases, drivers) -- particularly if some of them can't be obtained anymore.

 

-Forjo

 

As someone who has dealt with quite a few broken upgrades, I personally am very against them selling an upgrade.  One of the main reasons people upgrade is because they are having problems.  That is a bad scenario for an upgrade.

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Said what?  That they would direct XP and Vista users to buy 8.0 (which won't keep their apps but would keep the apps of Windows 7 users); and that they would direct Windows 7 users to buy 8.1, which won't keep their apps, instead of 8.0 which would?

 

-Forjo

XP and Vista are two different systems, XP especially. XP cannot be upgraded to modern operating systems, period. That's by design. It's the same reason Windows 7 cannot be upgraded to 8.1. Again, underlying changes are the faults.

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Copy/pasting from the Windows 8.1 FAQ page... this was posted the same day that 8.1 hit GA.  Certainly not a surprise.
 https://web.archive.org/web/20131017141336/http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8

Will I be able to keep my files, settings, and apps?
If you start (boot) your PC from installation media that you created when you downloaded the ISO, such as a DVD or USB flash drive, you won't be able to keep your apps, Windows settings, or personal files when you install Windows 8.1.

This table shows what you can keep when you update, depending on the version of Windows you currently have running on your PC. To verify which version of Windows you have now, see Which Windows operating system am I running?

If you're running - You can keep
Windows 8 - Windows settings, personal files, and most apps
Windows 7 - Personal files
Windows Vista - Nothing?you must boot from media and perform a clean installation
Windows XP - Nothing?you must boot from media and perform a clean installation
 

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Do you know anyone who has gone directly from 7 to 8.1 without going through 8 and have kept their applications?

 

Thanks!

 

-Forjo

 

 

I just did this last week and it upgraded everything straight from 7 to 8.1. The only things it wanted uninstalled or wouldn't migrate were things that weren't compatible like MSE.

As someone who has dealt with quite a few broken upgrades, I personally am very against them selling an upgrade.  One of the main reasons people upgrade is because they are having problems.  That is a bad scenario for an upgrade.

 

There's a difference between upgrades leading to a bad system and upgrading a broken system leading to a bad upgraded system.

 

namely that they're completely different issues and one isn't true. 

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Yes, it does warn you. But this is AFTER you have purchased 8.1. You don't have an option at that point to refund the product and go back to 8.0. And if you look at the site, they say that 8.0 is only for Vista and XP users (which ironically, also have to reinstall programs).

 

So if an uninformed user follows Microsoft's directions, they'll purchase a product which will NOT fully upgrade their systems as they might expect.

 

Hence this thread.

 

-Forjo

Can't they get a refund from MS then? I doubt it would be difficult since their customer service is usually pretty good.

If MS refuses then just call up your credit card company and they're more than happy to help if it's legit.

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XP and Vista are two different systems, XP especially. XP cannot be upgraded to modern operating systems, period. That's by design. It's the same reason Windows 7 cannot be upgraded to 8.1. Again, underlying changes are the faults.

 

Wrong. Vista upgraded XP which was by design.  And if you go through Vista, XP can be taken through 7, to 8, and finally 8.1. If the system starts out healthy and has supported hardware, it will work just fine (and faster) under Windows 8.

 

Copy/pasting from the Windows 8.1 FAQ page... this was posted the same day that 8.1 hit GA.  Certainly not a surprise.

 https://web.archive.org/web/20131017141336/http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8

Will I be able to keep my files, settings, and apps?

If you start (boot) your PC from installation media that you created when you downloaded the ISO, such as a DVD or USB flash drive, you won't be able to keep your apps, Windows settings, or personal files when you install Windows 8.1.

This table shows what you can keep when you update, depending on the version of Windows you currently have running on your PC. To verify which version of Windows you have now, see Which Windows operating system am I running?

If you're running - You can keep

Windows 8 - Windows settings, personal files, and most apps

Windows 7 - Personal files

Windows Vista - Nothing?you must boot from media and perform a clean installation

Windows XP - Nothing?you must boot from media and perform a clean installation

 

 

You're correct -- this is not a surprise. But that's not my point. Microsoft is telling Windows 7 users to buy 8.1 instead of 8 which would upgrade their OS with no loss. If they listen to Microsoft's advice then they'll lose all their applications. 8.0 is still available for purchase, will fully upgrade 7 including applications, and is upgradeable again to 8.1 for free.

 

Can't they get a refund from MS then? I doubt it would be difficult since their customer service is usually pretty good.

If MS refuses then just call up your credit card company and they're more than happy to help if it's legit.

 

That's also not the point. There's no reason to state that 8.1 is for Windows 7 users and 8.0 is for Vista and XP unless your goal is specifically to kill the user's applications.

 

-Forjo

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How is it their fault if the person doesn't do their research? 

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How is it their fault if the person doesn't do their research? 

You're supposed to do research to correct for when the site tells you to buy the wrong product?!?

 

-Forjo

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You're supposed to do research to correct for when the site tells you to buy the wrong product?!?

 

-Forjo

except it doesn't aka the faqs

just because you're misinterpreting what the base description says does not mean it's incorrect

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except it doesn't aka the faqs

just because you're misinterpreting what the base description says does not mean it's incorrect

I'm not misinterpreting anything. Look at my original post. On the Microsoft Store website where you PURCHASE WINDOWS 8 it says 8.1 is for Windows 7 users and 8.0 is for XP & Vista.  What exactly am I misinterpreting?

 

-Forjo

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Either way. 

 

regular users either won't care or won't understand it anyway or they'll have someone else do their upgrade(most likely) so for them i's irrelevant.

 

for techies, we know how to avoid it and know it happens anyway. 

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I'm not misinterpreting anything. Look at my original post. On the Microsoft Store website where you PURCHASE WINDOWS 8 it says 8.1 is for Windows 7 users and 8.0 is for XP & Vista.  What exactly am I misinterpreting?

 

-Forjo

that says nothing about applications. it turns your OS into Windows 8/8.1 and that's all it claims to do

 

they way you're misinturpriting it is you're over-thinking the description

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When you click the upgrade button on the installer it usually will do a pre-upgrade check and then give you a list of incompatible programs or programs that will be removed.

I don't know about the upgrade from Win 7 -> 8.1 because I've never done that but I know for sure that the upgrade from Vista -> 7 would give you a giant list and also in some cases the upgrade from 8 -> 8.1 does. Which is why I find it odd that MS wouldn't include the same functionality for an upgrade to 8.1 from 7.

Its not just compatibility is also how those applications are installed. If they are not installed using the Windows Installer Service then chances are they wont migrate across.

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I actually didn't realise this, so that's some good info thanks Forjo.

 

Will advise customers to avoid the upgrade (still) for now.

 

Very strange Microsoft didn't allow 7 to 8.1 upgrades, their code is reasonably similar...

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that says nothing about applications. it turns your OS into Windows 8/8.1 and that's all it claims to do

 

they way you're misinturpriting it is you're over-thinking the description

So why make a distinction between 8.0 and 8.1 with respect to XP, Vista and 7 at all?

 

If you don't find my warning useful that's fine. It doesn't change the fact that people who don't know this might be in for an unpleasant surprise when they try to upgrade.

 

I'm trying to inform people. I'm not sure what you are trying to do.

 

-Forjo

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I actually didn't realise this, so that's some good info thanks Forjo.

 

Will advise customers to avoid the upgrade (still) for now.

 

Very strange Microsoft didn't allow 7 to 8.1 upgrades, their code is reasonably similar...

I learned it first hand while trying to upgrade a client's system. Just bought 8.0 as they don't have a domain. If I had required Pro it would have forced an Amazon order -- which is another issue: 8.0 Pro isn't even available for download. Or at least I couldn't find it.

 

Glad to pass it along though.

 

-Forjo

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