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xbox one microsoft kinect sdk

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#16 George P

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 17:06

And just to prove my point this just hit twitter.

 

 

Just incase anyone still had the wrong idea here.




#17 Andrew

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 17:06

actually, it sounds to me like its something they said they were going to do back in october of last year
 
http://www.eurogamer...-one-developers

 

They did say it, but now they are expanding that in order to do it they had to remove Kinect. Maybe in future they'll be able to manage the resources on the fly better.



#18 spenser.d

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 17:39

They did say it, but now they are expanding that in order to do it they had to remove Kinect. Maybe in future they'll be able to manage the resources on the fly better.

 

Well they didn't have to remove Kinect, they just had to decide not to reserve unnecessary resources for it. It doesn't take 10% of the GPU to listen for commands :p The restriction just became pointless when they removed Kinect.



#19 Andrew

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 18:04

Well they didn't have to remove Kinect, they just had to decide not to reserve unnecessary resources for it. It doesn't take 10% of the GPU to listen for commands :p The restriction just became pointless when they removed Kinect.

 

Just going by the comments given to EG, they say the two are related. No idea where these reports of "extra HP" nonsense comes from. EG's quote is the original source but without extra added.

 

Rewind a few weeks ago and I think it was Yusuf who said they didn't remove Kinect to increase sales. That begs the question why did they remove it then if not for sales / the 10% which will be in the SDK...

 

Why not keep it in the box, release the SDK which auto-manages the resources and not upset the kinect-fans?



#20 Ironman273

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 19:25

Just going by the comments given to EG, they say the two are related. No idea where these reports of "extra HP" nonsense comes from. EG's quote is the original source but without extra added.

 

Rewind a few weeks ago and I think it was Yusuf who said they didn't remove Kinect to increase sales. That begs the question why did they remove it then if not for sales / the 10% which will be in the SDK...

 

Why not keep it in the box, release the SDK which auto-manages the resources and not upset the kinect-fans?

This generation seems to be a mirror image of last gens at this point.  Sony had the success of the PS2 to float the PS3 until they worked the kinks out but the 360, while a success for Microsoft, wasn't the leader that the PS2 was in its generation.  They need to fix things fast before it keeps heading further down.



#21 trooper11

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 19:50

Just going by the comments given to EG, they say the two are related. No idea where these reports of "extra HP" nonsense comes from. EG's quote is the original source but without extra added.
 
Rewind a few weeks ago and I think it was Yusuf who said they didn't remove Kinect to increase sales. That begs the question why did they remove it then if not for sales / the 10% which will be in the SDK...


MS was claiming the access to more of that 10% of resources would come at some point for a very long time, way before there was even talk of unbundling Kinect.

What isn't helping is the conflicting comments. Its clear though that removing Kinect was not part of the plan for giving developers more access to resources. My guess is that MS had a long term plan that involved giving developers the ability to tap into extra resources while using Kinect or not. Now that there is a sku without Kinect, MS might be able to offer developers even more access to resources, but I kind of doubt that.

Even if a developer does not use Kinect, MS integrated the thing with the OS, so some amount of resources must be devoted to its usage while your in a game. So unless developers want to deal with 2 builds of a game (one that works on X1s using Kinect and one that works with X1s without), then what is more likely is that MS simply opens up more resources thanks to optimizations across the board.
 

Why not keep it in the box, release the SDK which auto-manages the resources and not upset the kinect-fans?



Really? The kinect-fans represent the minority in this discussion. That ship has sailed. Heck, MS may have been planning to offer a sku without Kinect from the beginning and simply remained flexible on when that happened based on factors like sales, etc.

They sure did make statements that pointed to freeing up resources well before Kinect's removal.

#22 vcfan

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 20:01

They did say it, but now they are expanding that in order to do it they had to remove Kinect. Maybe in future they'll be able to manage the resources on the fly better.


they arent removing kinect. they are selling a new sku without kinect. they will still sell kinect skus and sell kinect separately. its not like if you don't have Kinect plugged in your box will be faster. it just means developers can now choose to use those reserves if they don't use Kinect in their games, as opposed to the reserves being locked regardless.

#23 Andrew

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 20:20

MS was claiming the access to more of that 10% of resources would come at some point for a very long time, way before there was even talk of unbundling Kinect.

What isn't helping is the conflicting comments. Its clear though that removing Kinect was not part of the plan for giving developers more access to resources. My guess is that MS had a long term plan that involved giving developers the ability to tap into extra resources while using Kinect or not. Now that there is a sku without Kinect, MS might be able to offer developers even more access to resources, but I kind of doubt that.

Even if a developer does not use Kinect, MS integrated the thing with the OS, so some amount of resources must be devoted to its usage while your in a game. So unless developers want to deal with 2 builds of a game (one that works on X1s using Kinect and one that works with X1s without), then what is more likely is that MS simply opens up more resources thanks to optimizations across the board.

Really? The kinect-fans represent the minority in this discussion. That ship has sailed. Heck, MS may have been planning to offer a sku without Kinect from the beginning and simply remained flexible on when that happened based on factors like sales, etc.

They sure did make statements that pointed to freeing up resources well before Kinect's removal.

 

The plan was always there, but maybe it came to a roadblock of some sorts which forced the ultimatum to remove it. Only MS know that sort of detail, otherwise they wouldn't have removed it when Yusuf said it wasn't to increase sales. For now the official word is the two are related. How much and in what sense, we don't know and I doubt we'll know them for some time either. I think most were scoffing at Yusuf's comments and it wouldn't be the first time he has said something stupid. So it very well might be the two are related, but not impossible with it in the box, and indeed the removal was to boost sales primarily.

 

It won't come down to 2 versions of games. People suggested that same idea when the HD DVD drive released and space was beginning to be questioned on DVD9. It's just going to take a lot of resourcement management to offer enough to listen for commands when the game doesn't include other kinect features but still allow OS access. Something we won't even have to think about, hence why MN said you don't need to unhook it for "more HP". That would be a ridiculous solution and ultimately most people would probably disconnect as soon as they hear their games can perform better (particularly the casual crowd who don't really understand it all).

 

Again, I'm well aware of the comments on freeing up the 10% long before kinect was taken out. I posted the articles remember :laugh: The idea of removing Kinect was Phil Spencer's idea apparently (there's a quote online somewhere). He started that ball rolling as soon as he took over. The conflict in message is caused by the quote from EG yesterday.

 

they arent removing kinect. they are selling a new sku without kinect. they will still sell kinect skus and sell kinect separately. its not like if you don't have Kinect plugged in your box will be faster. it just means developers can now choose to use those reserves if they don't use Kinect in their games, as opposed to the reserves being locked regardless.

 

I never said any of those things? Not sure why you're replying to me as if I did.

 

 

This generation seems to be a mirror image of last gens at this point.  Sony had the success of the PS2 to float the PS3 until they worked the kinks out but the 360, while a success for Microsoft, wasn't the leader that the PS2 was in its generation.  They need to fix things fast before it keeps heading further down.

 

Agreed, and I've said as much here on NW before. That's why I am all in favour of the "tough love" treatment as it arguably made Sony much more stronger and taught them some very valuable lessons. MS spent 2013 learning them and to their credit have responded much faster than Sony did. Hopefully they don't forget it though and they remember the gaming market can make and break you.



#24 vcfan

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 20:26

I never said any of those things? Not sure why you're replying to me as if I did.


didnt you say in order to do it,they had to remove kinect? that doesnt make sense if they will still be selling a sku with kinect.

#25 Andrew

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 20:31

didnt you say in order to do it,they had to remove kinect? that doesnt make sense if they will still be selling a sku with kinect.

 

No, the spokesperson who answered EG said the two are related. There's no sense in quoting something from last year when the circumstance may have changed and any plans they had originally to do it didn't work. There is a conflicting message.

 

I've never said any of the following:

 

1: kinect is gone

2: kinect won't be sold separately or never again included with another SKU

3: disconnecting the kinect offers more power



#26 vcfan

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 20:43

No, the spokesperson who answered EG said the two are related. There's no sense in quoting something from last year when the circumstance may have changed and any plans they had originally to do it didn't work. There is a conflicting message.
 
I've never said any of the following:
 
1: kinect is gone
2: kinect won't be sold separately or never again included with another SKU
3: disconnecting the kinect offers more power


but you did say they had to remove kinect to do it,did you not? the only thing im saying is, what you said doesnt make sense. how does selling a sku without kinect lead to them being able to remove a hard lock on resources if they will still sell the same sku as they do today with kinect?

#27 Andrew

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 20:47

but you did say they had to remove kinect to do it,did you not? the only thing im saying is, what you said doesnt make sense. how does selling a sku without kinect lead to them being able to remove a hard lock on resources if they will still sell the same sku as they do today with kinect?

 

 

Microsoft has confirmed that this boost in performance is in fact due to Kinect being stripped from the package.

 

That is the quote word for word from EG.

 

I've already said that in my reply to Trooper the resource management will work around when a game requires the 10% or doesn't, but clearly the spokesperson talking to EG said they removed it because it's related. Again backed up when Yusuf said it wasn't removed for sales reasons. How, why, when, what, who knows how it's related. Unless you're MS or a 3rd party developer who has access to the SDK (and no NDA restrcting it), we may never know.



#28 vcfan

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 23:47

That is the quote word for word from EG.
 
I've already said that in my reply to Trooper the resource management will work around when a game requires the 10% or doesn't, but clearly the spokesperson talking to EG said they removed it because it's related. Again backed up when Yusuf said it wasn't removed for sales reasons. How, why, when, what, who knows how it's related. Unless you're MS or a 3rd party developer who has access to the SDK (and no NDA restrcting it), we may never know.


i actually think the response from ms is a canned one that doesnt even answer the question.

EG:Microsoft has confirmed that this boost in performance is in fact due to Kinect being stripped from the package. When asked if the two were related, a Microsoft spokesperson sent Eurogamer the following response:

MS:"Yes, the additional resources allow access to up to 10 per cent additional GPU performance. We're committed to giving developers new tools and flexibility to make their Xbox One games even better by giving them the option to use the GPU reserve in whatever way is best for them and their games."



it still doesnt make sense how selling a kinectless sku changes anything, because they will still sell the same sku they sell today with kinect. my xbox with Kinect wont suddenly have any disadvantage to one sold without it.

#29 Brendeth

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:14

VC, Andrew.



Edit: I believe this is all a case of the messaging at Microsoft not being on point. Surprise, surprise that Yusuf was a major part of the poor communication.......



#30 George P

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 06:33

VC, Andrew.



Edit: I believe this is all a case of the messaging at Microsoft not being on point. Surprise, surprise that Yusuf was a major part of the poor communication.......

 

It's a combination of poor messaging and the media, like MN says, jumping to conclusions and pulling things out of their rear.

 

The timing of this update is also a factor because it comes so soon after they told us about the new SKU without Kinect.   Either way, the change is to the reserve we knew about from the beginning, some devs will now decide to use more if they have a need in their game, that's about it.