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California court overturns teacher tenure law


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#1 DocM

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 19:58

ABOUT DAMNED TIME!!!!

Hopefully this goes all the way and gets confirmed by SCOTUS.

Ruling....

http://m.washingtonp...tml?tid=HP_more

A Los Angeles Superior Court judge ruled Tuesday that tenure, seniority and other job protections for teachers have created unequal conditions in public schools and deprive poor children of the best teachers.

In a case that could have national implications for the future of teacher tenure, Judge Rolf Treu sided with a Silicon Valley mogul against some of the most powerful labor unions in the country.

In a 16-page ruling, in the case of Vergara v. California, Treu struck down three state laws as unconstitutional. The laws grant tenure to teachers after two years, require layoffs by seniority, and call for a complex and lengthy process before a teacher can be fired.

David F. Welch, founder of an optical telecommunications manufacturing firm, charged that job protections allow the state’s worst educators to continue teaching and that those ineffective teachers are concentrated in high-poverty, minority schools, amounting to a civil rights violation.

Welch’s case was argued by a team of prominent attorneys, including former U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson and Theodore Boutrous, who most recently paired to win a U.S. Supreme Court decision that struck down California’s prohibition against same-sex marriage.
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#2 Anibal P

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 18:30

The Unions have the Dems by the balls, they will not allow this to stand, not like they follow the law if they don't want to



#3 -Razorfold

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 18:42

A Los Angeles Superior Court judge ruled Tuesday that tenure, seniority and other job protections for teachers have created unequal conditions in public schools and deprive poor children of the best teachers.

Good. Tenure has no place in the modern world, at least not in schools.

That and sabbatical leave get abused so much that it's worth getting rid off. Then the money that is saved could be used to improve teacher pay and conditions because most of them really don't get paid that much and it's frankly pathetic.

My wife works at a PRIVATE school that costs nearly 25-30k a year to attend. Want to have a guess how much their teachers get paid? $45,000 a year is the average. They get good benefits but the cost is ridiculous...the ones through my job are better and cost half as much as the ones from my wife's employer. Hell if you work at that school and want to send your kids there, you don't even get a discount.

I went to a private school in Hong Kong that cost $10k a year to attend, and the starting salary for teachers at that school was 80k with many of them earning 6 figures and if you worked there and wanted to send your kids to the same school, it would be free.

#4 Richteralan

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 04:56

Good. Tenure has no place in the modern world, at least not in schools.

That and sabbatical leave get abused so much that it's worth getting rid off. Then the money that is saved could be used to improve teacher pay and conditions because most of them really don't get paid that much and it's frankly pathetic.

My wife works at a PRIVATE school that costs nearly 25-30k a year to attend. Want to have a guess how much their teachers get paid? $45,000 a year is the average. They get good benefits but the cost is ridiculous...the ones through my job are better and cost half as much as the ones from my wife's employer. Hell if you work at that school and want to send your kids there, you don't even get a discount.

I went to a private school in Hong Kong that cost $10k a year to attend, and the starting salary for teachers at that school was 80k with many of them earning 6 figures and if you worked there and wanted to send your kids to the same school, it would be free.

Which private school in Hong Kong would that be? The ones from ESF? 



#5 -Razorfold

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 05:59

Which private school in Hong Kong would that be? The ones from ESF?

Yes. Technically it's not a 100% private school since it gets a subsidy from the government. It's been a decade or so since I last attended but I believe their teachers are still all well paid.

It's kindoff sad when you compare salaries from there to here. Sure some schools suffer from severe budget constrains and that does need to be addressed, but there are quite a lot that get tons of money and still pay their teachers ######.

#6 Ravensky

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 06:19

Now make unions illegal and CA will be saved...



#7 OP DocM

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 06:44

Ca needs to do what Michigan did - become a Right To Work state. Employees have the OPTION of joining the union or not. Many are not, including teachers, and many are quitting the unions. This has really hammered the UAW health care division where hospital technical and other staffers have quit in droves.

#8 -Razorfold

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 15:22

Ca needs to do what Michigan did - become a Right To Work state. Employees have the OPTION of joining the union or not. Many are not, including teachers, and many are quitting the unions. This has really hammered the UAW health care division where hospital technical and other staffers have quit in droves.

I'm not surprised, the teachers union has done nothing to help the good teachers. Their working conditions, pay, quality of school has been dropping every single year.

The only thing that union is good at doing is protecting corrupt and ###### teachers and guaranteeing that they still have jobs.

#9 Richteralan

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 12:51

Yes. Technically it's not a 100% private school since it gets a subsidy from the government. It's been a decade or so since I last attended but I believe their teachers are still all well paid.

It's kindoff sad when you compare salaries from there to here. Sure some schools suffer from severe budget constrains and that does need to be addressed, but there are quite a lot that get tons of money and still pay their teachers ######.

You do realize that most local school teachers in HK get paid like at most 50% from the teachers in the ESF schools, right? Not to mention bigger class size, higher non-teaching administrative duties, and worse benefits. Please don't look at a small number of international schools and extrapolate to all local schools.



#10 -Razorfold

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 18:45

You do realize that most local school teachers in HK get paid like at most 50% from the teachers in the ESF schools, right? Not to mention bigger class size, higher non-teaching administrative duties, and worse benefits. Please don't look at a small number of international schools and extrapolate to all local schools.

You do realize I was comparing an international school that my wife works at in the US to an international school that in went to in HK right? I even put the word private in capital letters. So my comparison is entirely valid.

#11 Richteralan

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 03:43

You do realize I was comparing an international school that my wife works at in the US to an international school that in went to in HK right? I even put the word private in capital letters. So my comparison is entirely valid.

An international school in the US and an international school in the HK has completely different public/parental perception.

 

An international school in HK is considered as top-tier education institution by the general public, thus can charge way more for its tuition plus pay way more for good teachers.

 

Can you seriously say the same with international schools in the US? Most good schools that pay decently for good teachers in the US are local schools instead of international schools. Maybe there are a few, but those are exceptions. 

 

So, no. your comparison is flawed.



#12 OP DocM

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 09:13

There are <50 international schools in the US, most in NY and California and with more than half the states having none, so they're a miniscule factor here.

Many of the better schools are religious institutions. About 8,000 each for Roman Catholic and Jewish, and several thousand Christian (Protestant) schools. The latter are split among Lutheran, Baptist, Anabaptist and Quaker denominations.

In addition to these are thousands of Academies, which are often state funded but independently run. Charter Schools are a big part of this growing movement. Some Charters are taking over entire municipal districts here.

For the record: Obama's kids went to the Sidwell Friends School (Quaker), like many other political class kids in DC.

#13 -Razorfold

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 18:04

An international school in the US and an international school in the HK has completely different public/parental perception.

An international school in HK is considered as top-tier education institution by the general public, thus can charge way more for its tuition plus pay way more for good teachers.

Can you seriously say the same with international schools in the US? Most good schools that pay decently for good teachers in the US are local schools instead of international schools. Maybe there are a few, but those are exceptions.

So, no. your comparison is flawed.

Sigh. That's my entire point. Around the world we value teachers are pay them accordingly.

My wife's private school bills itself as one of the best places of education in this state and charges accordingly, $25k a year not including various other fees and charges but still do not pay their teachers well enough.

What is so hard to understand about that?

#14 Richteralan

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Posted 28 June 2014 - 12:02

Sigh. That's my entire point. Around the world we value teachers are pay them accordingly.

My wife's private school bills itself as one of the best places of education in this state and charges accordingly, $25k a year not including various other fees and charges but still do not pay their teachers well enough.

What is so hard to understand about that?

A good comparison would be local schools in HK with similar public perception as international schools in the US, and their salary for their teachers.

 

This is why I asked whether you were in one of the ESF schools because their pay scale is highly distorted (reads: ridiculously high salary) when you take local schools into consideration.

 

And you will realize that teachers are not paid well enough in Hong Kong, too. 

 

That is my point, thus your comparison is invalid.



#15 -Razorfold

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 16:31

A good comparison would be local schools in HK with similar public perception as international schools in the US, and their salary for their teachers.
 
This is why I asked whether you were in one of the ESF schools because their pay scale is highly distorted (reads: ridiculously high salary) when you take local schools into consideration.
 
And you will realize that teachers are not paid well enough in Hong Kong, too. 
 
That is my point, thus your comparison is invalid.

But we are comparing a private school in the US to a private school in HK. Guess what, their pay should be similar instead of half as much. So stop comparing local schools to my wifes private school.

I'm not talking about local schools because local school teachers here are paid just as ###### as local school teachers in HK. But Private schools tend to get a LOT LOT LOT of money and can easily afford to pay their teachers more, instead of the ###### that they pay them now. I do think that local school teachers should be getting a much higher pay too but they have other budgetary concerns that private schools don't have to deal with.

And no I don't think ESF's teacher salary is ridiculously high. I think it's appropriate based on what we expect them to do, and I expect most schools to have similar pay scales.

You'll find that most people in the US agree that teachers are severely underpaid and most people would agree that they should be paid more. The public perception isn't all that different.

THAT is my entire point. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing.