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Gunpoint Robbery Captured on Go-Pro


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#1 Gerowen

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 19:41

Source: http://www.funkertac...ured-on-go-pro/

 

 

 

The cameraman was on a ride in South Africa on May 31st when he was stopped by three armed men. They took his cell phone, car keys, Oakleys, and bike. They were not aware that they were being filmed.
 
What would you have done in this situation?

 

 

 


Weird that they didn't take the GoPro.  I mean you can see the shadow of it sticking up off his helmet, maybe they didn't know what it was.




#2 DocM

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 20:39

Soon as they turn drop to the deck left of the road crown, retrieve the .40 from the IWB, assume prone position (reduces your target aspect), call them out. If resistance or flight, open fire. Fleeing felon rule (armed robbery.)

#3 +LightEco

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 21:24

DocM, on 16 Jun 2014 - 13:39, said:

Soon as they turn drop to the deck left of the road crown, retrieve the .40 from the IWB, assume prone position (reduces your target aspect), call them out. If resistance or flight, open fire. Fleeing felon rule (armed robbery.)

You're going to shoot someone in the back, probably killing them, over some replaceable possessions? Nice.

 

Not saying these guys are upstanding citizens, but human life should have a bit more value.



#4 SierraSonic

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 21:30

You're going to shoot someone in the back, probably killing them, over some replaceable possessions? Nice.

 

Not saying these guys are upstanding citizens, but human life should have a bit more value.

If humans have value, the values vary from person to person, and these people are valued very very very low. I'd rate dirt higher in value.



#5 +LogicalApex

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 21:43

Soon as they turn drop to the deck left of the road crown, retrieve the .40 from the IWB, assume prone position (reduces your target aspect), call them out. If resistance or flight, open fire. Fleeing felon rule (armed robbery.)

Except the "Fleeing Felon Rule" is subject to the laws of the state you're in (as in it may not exist for you...)...

 

I wouldn't advocate using deadly force against fleeing suspects. It is not worth having to wage a fight in court over and it also isn't worth accidentally striking an innocent bystander. His wallet and bike can be replaced...

 

It would have been justified to use it against the armed suspect on approach (if he could draw and assume firing status in time).



#6 astropheed

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 21:50

Soon as they turn drop to the deck left of the road crown, retrieve the .40 from the IWB, assume prone position (reduces your target aspect), call them out. If resistance or flight, open fire. Fleeing felon rule (armed robbery.)

 

Sometimes you scare me.



#7 OP Gerowen

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 22:02

Except the "Fleeing Felon Rule" is subject to the laws of the state you're in (as in it may not exist for you...)...

 

I wouldn't advocate using deadly force against fleeing suspects. It is not worth having to wage a fight in court over and it also isn't worth accidentally striking an innocent bystander. His wallet and bike can be replaced...

 

It would have been justified to use it against the armed suspect on approach (if he could draw and assume firing status in time).

 

I was just about to say, that's a situation where it would have been iffy.  Would you draw on approach and hope you're a better shot than they are?  Do you wait for them to get close, give them enough to satisfy and distract them, then open fire at close range?  That would have been a hairy situation, but personally I think I would have gotten off the bike and started to back away in order to distract them and opened fire while he was still at a distance.  I know I can hit a target at that range, but your average oxygen thief like these guys would probably turn and run and fire wildly.  I've seen videos where supposed "gangstas" stand around a corner and just hold their pistol around and fire blindly into a hall or alley, and never actually hit anything.

 

Also, in this situation, the likelihood of hitting innocent bystanders is pretty non-existent, unless there's a ladybug in the grass that you're counting as a bystander, :p



#8 DocM

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 22:06

In Michigan we have a strong citizen's arrest law, and the fleeing felon rule to back it up.

By calling them out you are attempting a citizen's arrest, and if they turn to fight or continue to flee we can legally stop them with force.

These were armed robbers who are likely to do it again. In the next attempt they may kill someone, perhaps a kid since they're stealing bikes, which makes them an ongoing public menace.

I'd feel a lot worse if I let them go and they capped a kid than dropping their sorry asses.

#9 astropheed

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 22:11

In the next attempt they may kill someone, perhaps a kid since they're stealing bikes . . .

 

Is a hypothetical situation grounds to murder? I don't think so. They may never kill anyone. Then the only reason someone died is because of you. Life in South Africa is quite a bit different than America, desperation can do interesting things. I don't condone what they did, but I don't think it's worth killing them over.



#10 DocM

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 22:13

It isn't murder to shoot a fleeing dangerous (by their actions) criminal. What part of armed robbery making them an ongoing danger to the community don't you get? It's justifiable homicide, not a crime, and in these parts would probably get you a medal (not that it matters.)

#11 OP Gerowen

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 22:16

In Michigan we have a strong citizen's arrest law, and the fleeing felon rule to back it up.

By calling them out you are attempting a citizen's arrest, and if they turn to fight or continue to flee we can legally stop them with force.

These were armed robbers who are likely to do it again. In the next attempt they may kill someone, perhaps a kid since they're stealing bikes, which makes them an ongoing public menace.

I'd feel a lot worse if I let them go and they capped a kid than dropping their sorry asses.

Agreed.



#12 astropheed

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 22:18

It isn't murder to shoot a fleeing dangerous (by their actions) criminal. It's justifiable homicide, and in these parts would probably get you a medal.

 

In their parts it would probably get you killed. I heard of some really, really crazy stories from the E.R. in Johannesburg while my Wife was working there. It's not 'normal' over there. Your life is worth absolutely nothing to them, nothing.

 

I'm not aware of the fleeing felon rule even being applicable in South Africa and so I can't tell you whether or not it's lawful. Unlawful killings are can be considered murder. I'd like to look this up but I don't really have the time right now, I will later.

 

-edited



#13 DocM

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 22:32

In People v. Crouch (1990) the Michigan Supreme Court held that the US Supreme Court case Tennessee v. Garner limiting when police can shoot fleeing suspects was,

1) a civil rather than criminal action;

2) did not affect Michigan's existing Fleeing Felon Rule; and

3) that a citizen may use deadly force when restraining a fleeing felon in a criminal matter.

This has been reinforced by rulings from the Michigan Attorney General (several different ones, both parties) and the policy has been sent to local police agencies by the Commandant of the Michigan State Police.

Michigan's FFR is settled law.

#14 +LogicalApex

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 20:44

In People v. Crouch (1990) the Michigan Supreme Court held that the US Supreme Court case Tennessee v. Garner limiting when police can shoot fleeing suspects was,

1) a civil rather than criminal action;

2) did not affect Michigan's existing Fleeing Felon Rule; and

3) that a citizen may use deadly force when restraining a fleeing felon in a criminal matter.

This has been reinforced by rulings from the Michigan Attorney General (several different ones, both parties) and the policy has been sent to local police agencies by the Commandant of the Michigan State Police.

Michigan's FFR is settled law.

That may be, but Michigan jurisprudence isn't reflective of the totality of the United States nor the world at large. So, this action may very well be legal in MI and illegal in South Africa or, even, New York.

 

I also highly doubt you would jump off your bike, assume prone, and start opening fire because someone was running out of the bush in MI. If so, I'd argue that you shouldn't be legally allowed to carry... You'd pose an active threat to the citizenry.



#15 Luc2k

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 20:58

I'm sorry, but what the hell are you guys talking about? Did the biker have a gun hidden in the bushes or something?